People needing on gear with poor/useless stats and what to do about it?

[Deleted]

When I lead raids I try to be as fair as I can with looting so I don't get tonnes of loot drama breaking up the group. Spirit is a spirit user's priority, Mp5 is for healers, hit is for DPS, ranged is hunter priority and melee weapons are melee priority. ArP is... a grey area. In a 10 man I don't have a problem with this because everyone is much closer and loot is much easier to handle. However I don't like to lead 25's since people seem much happier to roll on loot with useless stats. Here are some examples -

1) Frozen Bonespike drops and an Elemental Shaman wins the roll. People complain that spirit items should not go to Shamans. I can:
a) Loot it to the highest spirit user, tell the Shaman not to need on spirit gear and watch as ICC general gets filled with "xxx is ninja!"
b) Tell everyone that the 100+SP gain on the weapon outweights the lack of spirit use, and watch as the spirit users complain about this.

2) DBW drops and a Ret Paladin wins the roll. People complain that this is not a trinket for a Ret Paladin. Do I:
a) Loot it to the highest roller who actally likes ArP and tell the Ret Paladin that DBW is not a trinket for them.
b) Loot it to the Ret because he won the roll and forget about it.

3) Midnight Sun HC drops and a SPriest (OS PvP Shadow) wins the roll. See #1, but with Mp5 instead. People remind me that I said Mp5 was a healer priority.

Edited 4th in: An Affliction Warlock wins the roll on a spirit/haste piece. People complain and say that Aff wants haste/crit and only an demo lock should get to roll on it.

[zorg]

upgrade is upgrade reguardless of a "useless stat" such as your example in scenario 1: B, is the correct answer!

[Moddycss]

1+2 tell people they are not eligible to that loot becuase others have prior because of stats.
3 dont give it to spriest cus "you said healer prior" if you said healer prior then it becomes a scam if you dont follow rules, which makes you a ninja according to blizzard rules which can end up un a suspention/ban if ppl make a ticket about it

[lamente]

I've lost two huge mp5 pieces on my disc priest in the last week to caster DPS. It sucks, and I think it's highly inconsiderate, but unless it's a guild run (she's a new 80, and it wasn't) you don't have any right to complain. In my case, on both runs I mentioned in chat "for the record I don't think it's very nice for caster dps to roll on mp5 items", and had multiple people agree with me, but the raid lead still passed them to the winning roll. If I was leading the raid I would have too, unless I had gone out of my way to specify mp5 as healer only and hit as dps only at the start of the run.

[anyaka21]

It's ICC, and sure upgrade is upgrade, however, people also need to realize, that there are 12 bosses, and with a 20+% buff, there are plenty of chances for more loot that is better for them.

[Perfectdark]

I boot whiney crybabies out of my raids, they go flawlessly, you win 100000 internetz. An upgrade is an upgrade is an upgrade, besides Cat will come out soon and it'll all be useless anyway. They'll get over it.

[Revitalize]

Lol @ ret paladins rolling on DBW.
Such a god damn waste.

[omgooses]

situation 1 and 2 are completely different.

If you look minus LK loot there is no haste crit spell one handers in ICC loot tables, so therefore the shaman is either going to be wanting the frozen bonespike, or midnight sun heroic mode dagger, heroic lockjaw. For casters in MOST cases raw spellpower is top priority.

In situation 2, DMC Strength i believe is STILL better than DBW, which also means that WFS, DC/DV. Include the heroic versions of those trinkets, thats 5 options before DBW comes along.

Basically in most cases, situation 1 is more of a lack of options given to the shaman for main hand best itemized loot, so its either worthless spirit on the bonespike, or next to worthless mp5 on the heroic dagger/mace. Situation 2 is more of a ret paladin not doing his homework and not wanting his easily attainable BIS or "better than dbw" in slot.

Then again i am a player who only gets the pieces to fit his "best available in slot" set-up, and we all know not everyone is like this.

in short, situation 1) shaman could get it. 2) ret pally qq more when it goes to a feral/combat/markshunter/fury warrior

edit: i forgot about tiny abom in a jar for ret paladins too....thats 6 now above dbw.
edit2: AND herkumi wartoken, so 7 total before dbw

[Kirfkin]

Well, that poor elemental shaman has four options before the Lich King. Frozen Bonespike with spirit and crit, Midnight Sun with Haste and Mp5, Lockjaw with Haste and Mp5, and Bleak Coldarra Carver with crit and hit.

Of those in their normal versions, Frozen Bonespike is by far the best. Three of those are easily obtainable - he needs to find a group capable of killing Sindragosa in even 10 man for the last, which is difficult on some servers. With loot rules giving priority to spirit users and healers, he has a chance at one of them - the Bleak Coldarra Carver, which he needs to find that group for a subpar weapon.

Or be rich or super lucky for a battered hilt.

There are many more caster swords and subpar staves. Which again I bet staves would be given priority to someone whose optimal set-up isn't a weapon/shield.

[Hinansho]

I usually call out the prime classes for the item to roll first(think MS/OS rolls, but singling out classes who the item are actually itemized for)and anyone who wants it second, DE is third. I haven't had any problems with this and find that with some explaining people begin to realize that what they were rolling on had what I call "wasted stats", and usually go on without the drama or having to replace more than one member(usually that member is a ret rolling on DBW, but my opinion is if they don't know their class that well they shouldn't be in ICC anyways and would rather run 24 or 9 and not deal with that person anymore).

[Joels]

It's ICC, and sure upgrade is upgrade, however, people also need to realize, that there are 12 bosses, and with a 20+% buff, there are plenty of chances for more loot that is better for them.

I'm not sure what pugs you run, but most dont get past the first 6.. if even that, most 25mans I do on alts fall apart after saurfang..

OT: Give it to the highest roller, unless you specifically state before you begin the raid that only spirit users get gear w/ spirit on them, and only healers get mp5 pieces, and ret paladins/enh shamans are not allowed to roll on DBW(If it drops)

[Scoteecopter]

Frozen Bonespike is 2nd BiS weapon for ele, behind LK mace. Not counting heroic.

DBW is 4th BiS below Tiny Abom, Death's Choice/Verdict, and Herkuml. Again not counting heroic.

[omgooses]

Frozen Bonespike is 2nd BiS weapons, behind LK mace. Not counting heroic.

DBW is 4th BiS below Tiny Abom, Death's Choice/Verdict, and Herkuml. Again not counting heroic.

and WFS

[Deleted]

In situation 2, DMC Strength i believe is STILL better than DBW

no its not and people pugging icc 25 is not to likely to get TAiaJ atleast before the buff reaches 30% on most servers for the rest you are pretty much correct but if everyone should pass on upgrades just because its better for someone else people would never get any loot

[Revitalize]

You forgot whispering fanged skull.
Then again, since its easier acquirable means you should roll on it, right?

[omgooses]

no its not and people pugging icc 25 is not to likely to get TAiaJ atleast before the buff reaches 30% on most servers for the rest you are pretty much correct but if everyone should pass on upgrades just because its better for someone else people would never get any loot

i guess i'm lucky that i'm on a high pop server that can pug 8/12 putricide, then again i dont have any characters that want TAiaJ

[Geekbustarz]

Dbw for paladins isn't worth it. I think it was something along the lines of 5 more effective dps than DMC:G.

[Revitalize]

no its not and people pugging icc 25 is not to likely to get TAiaJ atleast before the buff reaches 30% on most servers for the rest you are pretty much correct but if everyone should pass on upgrades just because its better for someone else people would never get any loot

It's about the same when you simulate them, and DBW barely pulls ahead when you factor in Tier 10 2 piece bonus.

If people can't pug putricide with the 20% buff, theyll most likely never do it with the 30%
Hell, my alt's pugged 12/12 ICC 25 already, its not that difficult when you find those consistant players that don't raid in actual guilds.

Just because DBW is available and its a 264 trinket doesnt mean its viable for ret paladins.
It hardly pulls ahead Greatness card.
Give it to someone that itll actually benefit too better.

TAiJ youll have close to no competition on the trinket as it really only benefits, mutilate rogues, enhance shamans, and ret pallies.
Just wait till it drops.

[4granite]

It should go to a class that can make use of all the stats on the item. BiS lists don't matter if you're pugging 25 ICC.

[OafusBladesEdge]

If there is someone in raid who can benefit from all of the stats, they should have priority. Arp should only go to a pally if no one else needs. Spirit to mages, priests, druids, locks, unless no one else needs. it does get tough as mp5 can be used by resto druids, mp5 is never a bad thing for healers) but other healers in raid benefit more from it where druids need spirit. When I do raids, especially guild raids, I have no problem giving items to those who need it the most if all stats will be used by them.