No aggro for bears?

[Kokiron]

Bind maul to swipe/lacerate/mangle, stack lacerate to 5 on single targets and keep it there, faerie fire on cooldown, steamroll any heroic.

Seriously, bear tanking is one of the easier types of tanking if you know what you're doing.

[moowindd]

Just a thought here. But what dps are you running with if you manage to stack 5 lacerate on a trash mob? I will assume you mean bosses. :P

Anyway, as I've mentioned in some other thread here i know the feeling with the threat issues. I had them to until I got so frustrated and went and bought the Battered Hilt. Once I got myself a 251 weapon threat issues were gone. At least against most dps. Still struggle against some. Just last night I had a pug with a dk dps in full 277 gear and shadowmourne. Yea, trying to grab aggro there was fun. :P

[arel00]

1+1 =

I know, I know! ...3, right?

On topic: Bear AoE being bad? News :P
As it's been said, there's little you can do beside Maul macros. Keep in mind one thing tho: NOTHING gives you as much threat as a good weapon. The jump in itemlevel (and thus on DPs and FAP) on your weapon is possibly the biggest source of TPS, ever.

[Surfd]

Another thing that is VERY important for bear tanks is Hit and Expertise. Other then lacerate, we have 0 passive threat generators that stick to mobs. No diseases ticking away, no lolconsecrate, or damage shields to give us threat when the mob hits us (no, thorns is shit for passive threat, sorry), since pretty much ALL of our meaningfull threat comes from directly hiting mobs, it is VERY important that we actually be able to land those hits.

I found as a bear that I had moderate aggro issues vs better geared dps on boss fights. I picked up a big chunk of Hit and Expertise, and those issues dissapeared, usually resulting in me being WAY ahead of them on threat, where before they were riding my ass like a pair of spandex underpants.

Also, I laugh at the OPs assertion that bears are more itemization restricted then other tanks. Currently, we are the LEAST itemization restricted out of all tanks for one simple reason: We can effectively completely ignore defense as a mandatory stat on ALL of our gear, leaving more room for stacking good stuff like stam, AP, etc. ALL plate tanks are required to have enough Defense to be crit immune through gear, where as for bears, defense on gear is a complete bonus, and can be ignored at will.

[Soranis]

You're an idiot.
AP effects the agro on Swipe etc.
You get extra AP in Bear Form.
1+1 = 12ui361278312351263512hvd161523

i filled in the awnser =D

[Surfd]

Notice anything missing from the bear tanks? Anyone ever wonder why bears do not deserve to get a +threat in their form? I am not QQing or anything, I am just wondering... Anyone care to explain that to me please?

To answer this directly, i would say it is because "bears" already have the needed threat baseline.

Please note, for the following example, these numbers are pulled completely out of my ass to illustrate the point i am attempting to make:

Lets say there is a "Threat Factor" where 10 is the place they want tanks to be at, and DPS sit at various levels from 7 to 4.

A warrior / dk when not in their "tank stance" sits somewhere around the 8 mark.
A paldin probably sits somwehre around the 4 mark.
A druid in bear form sits at the 10 mark.

Now, here is why bear druids dont need +threat on bear form:
- Wars / DK / Pals are balanced around the idea that they sit at a DPS rated threat factor as baseline, and buff themselves with bonus threat when they want to tank.
- Note: Unholy Presence, Blood Presence, Berserker Stance and Battle Stance ALL come with a -20% threat modifier built in. This means that while a completely unbuffed DK / Warrior (no stance / presence active) sits at a Threat factor of 8, an actual DPS DK / War usually is sitting ar around a 6.
Essentially: Wars and DKs (and to a lesser extent Pals) were designed from the point of view that they are DPS classes who throw on a "+ threat tank buff" when they want to go tanking.

- Bears are balanced 100% to be tanks (feral druids do not mele dps in bear form), so the logic then, is that they decided to permanantly stick Mele Druids with a Threat Factor of 10 as baseline, and instead give a slightly larger minus threat modifier to cat form.
- Cat form has a -30% threat modifier (instead of -20% like war / dk dps stances)
Essentially: Feral Druids (bears) are designed from the point of view that they are Tank classes who throw on a "- threat dps buff" (cat form) when mele Dpsing.
(Another thing to note, while the tooltip on Bear form Says "increases ap by 120", that number actually scales with level (though not by much). I think it is around 240 ap at level 80?)


If that makes any sense.

Most of the shennanigans going on with the threat modifiers and stances (at least as far as wars / druids go) probably stem from the fact that warriors start with a dps stance (battle stance) as baseline, where as the first melee form druids get is a tank form (bear).

[The Cat]

Now, here is why bear druids dont need +threat on bear form:
- Wars / DK / Pals are balanced around the idea that they sit at a DPS rated threat factor as baseline, and buff themselves with bonus threat when they want to tank.
- Note: Unholy Presence, Blood Presence, Berserker Stance and Battle Stance ALL come with a -20% threat modifier built in. This means that while a completely unbuffed DK / Warrior (no stance / presence active) sits at a Threat factor of 8, an actual DPS DK / War usually is sitting ar around a 6.
Essentially: Wars and DKs (and to a lesser extent Pals) were designed from the point of view that they are DPS classes who throw on a "+ threat tank buff" when they want to go tanking.

They do have +threat on bear form. The same amount has a warrior has in defensive stance or dk has in frost. Warriors have -30% threat in their dps stance.(assuming talented)

[taurendeathknight]

Mangle/Faerie Fire every CD.
Spam Maul - Swipe for extra threat.
Keep Lacerate at 5 stacks.

How hard is that. =S
In my lame offspec gear people miles above me in GS don't pull threat off me, so OP must be doing something wrong gearwise. ;D

[xGLxAnubis]

Bears don't need better threat. My offspec is tank and I'm always about half a tier behind in gear since it's offspec and I pickup left over gear. I spam this macro while I eat a sandwich and have no problem holding threat against our top threat gen (DK with full 277 and Shadowmourne, while tricks of the trade is up):

#show Maul
/castsequence [reset=6] Faerie Fire (Feral), Mangle (Bear), Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate
/castrandom Maul

Seriously. If you're a bear with threat problems, copy the macro and spam the shit out of it for anything single target.

[The Cat]

Bears don't need better threat. My offspec is tank and I'm always about half a tier behind in gear since it's offspec and I pickup left over gear. I spam this macro while I eat a sandwich and have no problem holding threat against our top threat gen (DK with full 277 and Shadowmourne, while tricks of the trade is up):

#show Maul
/castsequence [reset=6] Faerie Fire (Feral), Mangle (Bear), Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate
/castrandom Maul

Seriously. If you're a bear with threat problems, copy the macro and spam the shit out of it for anything single target.

If that's literally all you do, you are crippling your threat as lacerate DoTs are a main source of it.

[xGLxAnubis]

If that's literally all you do, you are crippling your threat as lacerate DoTs are a main source of it.

I don't see how. If someone can't pull off me as it is, who cares if my threat goes up by even double? And heck, my gear is only 264's with scattered 277 pieces and I still out threat the bear tank in our guild who does a manual rotation O.o

[Headup]

1. Understanding of the class.
2. Decent blue gear gathered while leveling 75-79. (My lvl 79 frost DK is a "monster", threat wise cuz of my full blue set)
3. A good weapon. (Joined my guild with a 245 weapon and has some troubles until i got a 264 one)

I love droood tanking and you could too if u take some of these ppls advices. (you can also check elitistjerks).

[The Cat]

I don't see how. If someone can't pull off me as it is, who cares if my threat goes up by even double? And heck, my gear is only 264's with scattered 277 pieces and I still out threat the bear tank in our guild who does a manual rotation O.o

If your dps is horrible I guess it doesn't matter. Either way you are crippling your threat. That is a fact.

[Cerus]

while yes, you're going to have problems vs geared people when you're a new 80, which is a problem for all new tanks, druids aren't any worse off than any other tank, and even have it better than some. Assuming you have maul glyphed and macro'd to your swipe, in your aoe, you're hitting everything in a frontal cone, plus mauling 2 of those targets.

On a warrior: you need to tab cleave while watching omen to shield slam the mob who is closest to losing aggro. Yes, you have shortish CD ae abilities (TC, Shockwave), but I know from experience, it's all to easy to lose that one mob your cleave doesn't hit if you aren't tabbing around. Also, both cleave and HS are on next swing timers, so you can't spam both like a druid.

Paladins: Don't have demo roar/shout (they can take vindication in their build, but I find it cumbersome). Yes you can face roll through most of everything, welcome to the bandwagon class.

DK's: Less effective on chain pulling (I.E. Tunnel in PoS) IMO as their AE is set in a stationary location with a longish CD. Granted you could FF and Pest as you go assuming you have disease glyphed. Also, their Icy Touch is elemental damage, so can be resisted by some mobs (tanking Ahune on a DK is a bitch)


Granted, there are some things you need to understand about a druid to not have aggro problems, but is competitive with all tanks around your gear level for Aggro gen, and ahead of all of them (except Paladins, who have Ardent Defender, which is basically an auto last stand and SS) on survivability.

Swipe isn't a frontal cone anymore.

To the OP: L2play - Bear threat is more than fine.

[Cheezee]

Tank in full dps gear so you can really piss off the other tanks.

[xGLxAnubis]

If your dps is horrible I guess it doesn't matter. Either way you are crippling your threat. That is a fact.

-.- SURE! So because my threat isn't at maximum, our DPS has to be terrible.

Clearly my threat is crippled. I don't know how my guild has managed hardmodes thus far with me gimping the raid so terribly.

---------- Post added 2010-06-29 at 04:24 PM ----------

I just checked our parse for PP this past week. Did it on Normal mode to finish out the achieve for the few people that still needed it. I was the 3rd tank for P3, which lasted all of 59 seconds. In those 59 seconds (AKA the only time I was in bear form the entire fight) I had 19 Lacerate ticks. Since it ticks every 3 seconds, that means those 19 ticks spanned over 57 seconds. Since I was in Bear form for approx 59s, I can assume every lacerate tick went off, meaning my rotation doesn't screw up lacerate ticks at all.

You were saying?

[dancm]

If your dps is horrible I guess it doesn't matter. Either way you are crippling your threat. That is a fact.

Yes, he is crippling his threat but not for the reason you mentioned. Lacerate's tick timer doesn't reset when it is reapplied. But lacerate's initial threat is relative low so constantly spamming it is a loss of threat compared to renewing the dot just before it's last tick and swiping in between.

[laffy]

as stupid as it sounds. BEARS DO REQUIRE SKILL TO PLAY. its not just mashing buttons like bears who can't hold threat. yes alot of it is based on gear. your weapon is your best friend! my guild is in 25 icc heroic 11/12 down and i'm full 277 geared and have no problem holding 17k-19k tps. there is no reason why new bear tanks can't hold 7-8k tps. practice makes perfect, learn the class!

[Doctadrew]

Skinning a bear causes all bears in the surrounding area to aggro to you.

[The Cat]

-.- SURE! So because my threat isn't at maximum, our DPS has to be terrible.

Clearly my threat is crippled. I don't know how my guild has managed hardmodes thus far with me gimping the raid so terribly.

---------- Post added 2010-06-29 at 04:24 PM ----------

I just checked our parse for PP this past week. Did it on Normal mode to finish out the achieve for the few people that still needed it. I was the 3rd tank for P3, which lasted all of 59 seconds. In those 59 seconds (AKA the only time I was in bear form the entire fight) I had 19 Lacerate ticks. Since it ticks every 3 seconds, that means those 19 ticks spanned over 57 seconds. Since I was in Bear form for approx 59s, I can assume every lacerate tick went off, meaning my rotation doesn't screw up lacerate ticks at all.

You were saying?

Either way, you are crippling your threat. That is a fact. Is what I was saying.