Cataclysm Class & Mastery Systems Update

[Slasha]

Is this a joke?

[Sonoka]

Well I'm starting to hate blizz for what they are doing with this game. Just hope that my rage is not necessary and cata won't fuck this game up.

The only bad thing they have done is the RealID thing, and that wont even affect your game-play experience. Since you post here I assume you refer to talents, and as for that, that's NOT a bad change.. I would very much like for you to explain what's wrong with it.

It is all further dumbing down of the game so that everyone can be the same.

This makes classes less interesting and not more interesting.

Hahahahaha and the example of the developer who has a two year wow break "having to spend 45 minutes" reading up on his class is such a lame example of why they should completely overhaul talents and make sure that you need even less class-knowledge to be a good player.

Like I said: the dumbing-down continues.

If you havn't noticed, everyone already is the "same" spec, the only things keeping specs apart atm is the "oh, he got 3% hit there and I got the 3% crit instead".
And how can it make classes less interesting? We get new spells, sure there are no more hybrid speccing, but that was mostly for rogues and warlocks, and at the end, alot less for warlocks.
Sure holy paladins did it for PvP, but that's barley worth it anymore, so that's not a problem.
I mean, I would LOVE to get rid of all the fillers, 5% crit / hit / haste / dmg.. those are just awfull.
Making the tree shorter doesn't really mean it's simpler, tho in this case it might be.
Also, you say "..2 years wow break having to spend 45 min reading up on his class".
So, you are saying it takes more time now? I'v had a 1 year break (still on it), I don't even have to read up on my class, it's easy as it is. Sure, you read about the new abilitys, but I doubt it takes you 2 hours to do so.
And for the "need even less class-knowledge"-part.. wow is NOT a hard game, atleast not for people that actually can understand english. With hard I mean it's not hard to understand a class and get what abilitys you use and what not, if you think that, then you might reconcider and start playing runescape instead.

don't have time to flame flamers more atm, but I'll be back soon enough.
The class-knowledge part, I don't even play

[Willys]

That's exactly what's written there, nothing to interpret.
But let me ask you one question: If you don't play endgame, why would you need mastery?

I've simply liked the original idea better. That would have rewarded leveling players just the same. But I understand they had to cut corners as it's easier to add new stats to items - something they re-do anyway.

[Sonoka]

I've simply liked the original idea better. That would have rewarded leveling players just the same. But I understand they had to cut corners as it's easier to add new stats to items - something they re-do anyway.

It still is the same, in a way, when you first chose your talent tree, you will get some specials, atleast from how I read it, say.. you chose protection tree, then you get a little HP and defense boost while your dmg may be lowered.
It just doesn't say, "oh hey, you just got 0.3% / 0.6% / 0.9% more dmg".
Mastery still increases 1 stat that you get depending on which tree you chose, as their exapmple, arms.. you get a chance to make and extra swing with your weap, mastery increases the chance.
They are NOT cutting corners, if you understand english and read the whole post you would understand they ain't.

//Sonoka~

[Cyberzombie]

It is all further dumbing down of the game so that everyone can be the same.

This makes classes less interesting and not more interesting.

Hahahahaha and the example of the developer who has a two year wow break "having to spend 45 minutes" reading up on his class is such a lame example of why they should completely overhaul talents and make sure that you need even less class-knowledge to be a good player.

Like I said: the dumbing-down continues.

So you've already seen the new talent trees then? Obviously you have if you've already concluded that a revamp of the system could only dumb it down.

Oh...what's that? You haven't seen them yet? Then shut it. They've been saying for a while now they wanted to trim the boring talents out, and honestly if they wanted to do that this is the only way they could. If they tried to cut the boring/lame talents yet keep the structure they currently have, they'd have to replace every single talent cut with something that fits their ideal of each talent being cool/unique and not just "x gets % more damage".

I don't get how people are shocked by this, and I get it even less how people say this dumbs the game down...it streamlines it, yes. But you still have to make choices and you'll still be different from the other guy of the same class standing next to you. It's actually worse right now in the case of people all looking/being the same...if you're ret and don't take the same talents everyone else has, you're a baddie.

Oh no! Now you might have to choose between one talent or the other in order to advance to the next tier!

---------- Post added 2010-07-08 at 09:24 AM ----------

I've simply liked the original idea better. That would have rewarded leveling players just the same. But I understand they had to cut corners as it's easier to add new stats to items - something they re-do anyway.

At level 10 when you choose arms (to continue the original example), you'll be granted +8.01% physical damage, +24.02% armor pen, and an 8.01% chance to generate an extra attack with your melee swings.

The mastery you find on gear once you're at the level to start getting it will increase the third bonus (in this case the extra attack chance). That's really all it does. It's not a world of difference by itself.

[loftus]

'On your second point, we know some players liked the option of spending some points in the first tree and then some in the second tree. Often this was just a trap for new players though because it delays your getting the 21, 31 and other "gold medal" talents that really define your tree. Experienced players might learn to get a 5/5/5 build or whatever and then respec once they could reach the 31, but we could also just make better trees that didn't ask you to do that.'

This is the bit that made me lose faith in the new system. It comes down to worrying if players will be able to understand or do well in the game, which as people have said already caters for 'bads' im not talking about casuals, because im a casual. I play as and when i can for small periods of time mostly, however at the same time i learn my class and find out what i need to find out.

This change was done so that (besides only having to think and manage half the number of talents points which = less work) people wouldnt have crappy levelling specs.

So what? let people have crappy levelling specs. i did the first character i rolled and i loved it. i learned as i went along what worked and what didnt, thats the whole point. I dont understand giving people a choice if its impossible to pick a wrong one.

Im not talking about end-game so much, because people will be fully specced 31/10/0 etc. then anyway, but limiting people to go full 31 while levelling is just stupid. I've spent a bit of time away from WoW to play FF11 again... in that game everything you get has to be earned, nothing is given. You have to find out what does what, who to talk to, where to go... everything. You get punished for dying etc.

While that is a very difficult game IMO, its fine if you actually learn and work things out while trying to be spoon-fed. Im not a hardcore with loads of time, but it has made me realise how easy and 'noob-friendly' wow is becoming.

Let people make wrong decisions and let people learn from them. Thats why you see loads of DKs (not so much now, but at the beggining of wrath) being bad at their roles, because they only had 25 levels to learn it. Levelling is there for a reason, its to prepare you for end-game.

[Deleted]

So you've already seen the new talent trees then? Obviously you have if you've already concluded that a revamp of the system could only dumb it down.

Oh...what's that? You haven't seen them yet? Then shut it. They've been saying for a while now they wanted to trim the boring talents out, and honestly if they wanted to do that this is the only way they could. If they tried to cut the boring/lame talents yet keep the structure they currently have, they'd have to replace every single talent cut with something that fits their ideal of each talent being cool/unique and not just "x gets % more damage".

I don't get how people are shocked by this, and I get it even less how people say this dumbs the game down...it streamlines it, yes. But you still have to make choices and you'll still be different from the other guy of the same class standing next to you. It's actually worse right now in the case of people all looking/being the same...if you're ret and don't take the same talents everyone else has, you're a baddie.

Oh no! Now you might have to choose between one talent or the other in order to advance to the next tier!

---------- Post added 2010-07-08 at 09:24 AM ----------



At level 10 when you choose arms (to continue the original example), you'll be granted +8.01% physical damage, +24.02% armor pen, and an 8.01% chance to generate an extra attack with your melee swings.

The mastery you find on gear once you're at the level to start getting it will increase the third bonus (in this case the extra attack chance). That's really all it does. It's not a world of difference by itself.

Actually, it looks like you won't get the 3rd mastery until you get gear with mastery on it

[Upptagen]

I enjoyed reading some of those replies. Some people are seriously dumb. OH NOES THEY IS CHANGES TEH GAME THAT I HAVE WHINED FOR THEM TO CHANGEEE!
First they say: This game sucks, change that,that and that.
When Blizzard changes the game to take away stupid and totally un-needed talents they go: WTF THEY DUMB THE GAME DOWN FCKING RETARDS OMGZORZWTFPWNPWNLAZORYEAHCOW!

Only time can tell if it will turn out good.

[Willys]

It still is the same, in a way, when you first chose your talent tree, you will get some specials, atleast from how I read it, say.. you chose protection tree, then you get a little HP and defense boost while your dmg may be lowered.
It just doesn't say, "oh hey, you just got 0.3% / 0.6% / 0.9% more dmg".
Mastery still increases 1 stat that you get depending on which tree you chose, as their exapmple, arms.. you get a chance to make and extra swing with your weap, mastery increases the chance.
They are NOT cutting corners, if you understand english and read the whole post you would understand they ain't.

//Sonoka~

I disagree. A proc can be just as easily calculated from invested talent points into the tree.
Also the are cutting corners in terms of developing difficulty. Simple agile project handling. Nothing to be ashamed about.

[Deleted]

100% fail.

They don't have enough creative ideas for talents so they just diminish their amount!

I'd rather keep 'boring' talents and have 1 talent point per level.

[The Distortion]

Not sure if this is going to be something with those talentpoints but we will see..

[Karmian]

They do this in order to distract our attention from the difference of ilvl from the Cata gear and WotLK one.
Also in case n1 has seen, a lvl 78 dungeon drops items that are on par with icc 25 hc.

If they want to make a lvl 82 character to be 'more powerful' than an 80 character there are alot of other ways, not only by pushing his health pool and his damage to stupidly high amounts....

[Deleted]

I'd rather keep 'boring' talents and have 1 talent point per level.

But why?

[gringo]

holy shit this is big.. and unexpected!

[Deleted]

RealID wont affect my game at all, and the talent changes are welcomed.

[Deleted]

Low lvl PvP is gonna be awesome come cata

[Sonoka]

I disagree. A proc can be just as easily calculated from invested talent points into the tree.
Also the are cutting corners in terms of developing difficulty. Simple agile project handling. Nothing to be ashamed about.

New is new, they don't copy pasta the programming code from an earlier existing project.
As for the developing difficulty, I bet it's just the same, might be less time consuming and with the same end result.
How is that a bad thing?

---------- Post added 2010-07-08 at 12:42 PM ----------

100% fail.

They don't have enough creative ideas for talents so they just diminish their amount!

I'd rather keep 'boring' talents and have 1 talent point per level.

How is it 100% fail? "Not creative enough ideas?" They ARE implenting NEW talents AND abilitys, if you didn't notice already??? They are just removing the FILLER talents, HOW is that bad?
'Sense', you ain't making any.

//Sonoka~

[warrex]

Dear Blizzard dev team,
I would like to thx you for making the game so stupid and easy so even I and my retarded friend could play this game and f__k everyone else who actually can use his brain.
I can just click on everytalent in my blue tree and I am done with thinking about it

Your dumpest customer IQ -10

Have a great day

------------
sorry for my english
No you can ban me .)

[Sonoka]

Dear Blizzard dev team,
I would like to thx you for making the game so stupid and easy so even I and my retarded friend could play this game and f__k everyone else who actually can use his brain.
I can just click on everytalent in my blue tree and I am done with thinking about it

You dumpest customer IQ -10

Have a great day

------------
No you can ban me .)

Even without sarcasm, you must be pretty stupid.
They are not making it easier, it's the same 'difficulty', I'm not saying WoW is difficult, because it isn't.
This is just to make it 'not so messy', it's a really great idea, I like how they bring us back to pre-TBC tree-layouts, just with alot, dare I say it, 'cooler' talents.

//Sonoka~

[Lord Lichfury]

Who cares if they're making talents a bit more simple? Personally i've found myself debating for quite some time over what talents to choose which ultimately wouldn't make that much difference whatever one I choose. So they're "dumbing down talents", so what? They're making up for it in instances and raiding. Believe me, if you think they're going to be a WOTLK-style face roll then you have another thing coming, and at the end of the day talents aren't going to change a thing if you don't avoid a 1-shot boss mechanic, so this whole debate is really beside the point.