How to make no portals acceptable.

[Jadugarr]

That time in a given game session is negligible at best. Quantify it over an extended period of time and sure, it might actually be significant enough to concern yourself with. However, if you're quantifying travel time in a video game far enough out to come up with a significant number then you should maybe question the fact that you're playing such a game in the first place. It's not about short term or long term thinking, it's about thinking about this rationally. If a few seconds of your game time here or there is so worth worrying about then it's high time you re-evaluate whether you should be playing at all. This change is nothing. It's a drop of water in an entire swimming pool. It's meaningless. Getting all bent out of shape over it is stupid.

Whether or not I am playing in the first place is irrelevant to the question of whether or not it is a significant timesink. It is. Adding more timesinks to the game makes said game a less enjoyable use of time. Is this particular timesink on it's own enough to break the camel's back? Unlikely. For a very few it may be, but nevertheless it is another reason to consider other ventures. I'm viewing this change as a net negative for the game at large, which it undoubtedly is. I generally oppose net negatives on principle, and I can't imagine why anyone who plays and cares about the game enough to post on a fansite forum wouldn't.

[sicness]

Whether or not I am playing in the first place is irrelevant to the question of whether or not it is a significant timesink. It is. Adding more timesinks to the game makes said game a less enjoyable use of time. Is this particular timesink on it's own enough to break the camel's back? Unlikely. For a very few it may be, but nevertheless it is another reason to consider other ventures. I'm viewing this change as a net negative for the game at large, which it undoubtedly is. I generally oppose net negatives on principle, and I can't imagine why anyone who plays and cares about the game enough to post on a fansite forum wouldn't.

Exactly, the only people that have supported this change only make asinine arguments such as 'better for the game' and 'back in my day' bullshit that proves there's no benefit for this change in the overall aspect of the game. There's absolutely zero to be had with this change, and while there is only little to be lost that's still a considerable loss compared to zero gain.

[Plagued00]

How much time are you really going to spend travelling? Seriously. How much time? If this is a problem for you I'd counter that you're wasting too much time of your own volition and that it has nothing to do with whether or not the portals are in Dalaran or Shattrath.

Whether or not there are portals in Dal or Shatt: You are still on a flight point from point A to point B once you are on the continent of your choosing. It's fair to say that without the portals being in Dal or Shatt that you'll instead make your home SW, Org, or another major city and thus actually be CLOSER to your exp destination, by way of removing the need to load the game, click a city portal and load that city up. You've reduced your travel time by 2 steps. The flight point from the city you would have clicked to your final destination is... the same.

Whether or not the portals remain, the best way to buy and sell from the auction house for speed-minded, or time-minded individuals (such as those concerned with travel time), is STILL to do so via a bank alt and mailing things between your toons. Mail is instant. Opting to travel to a city and AH on your leveling toon and then complaining about that travel time is absurd. You caused your own time sink, regardless of any flight or portal mechanics. Play smart and this isn't even close to being an issue. At all. And you can't convince me, or any smart player, otherwise.

So what precisely is the time-sink concern? The leveling toon in Outlands? Aha! But they've just sped your leveling UP by doing this. You go to Shattrath and train and get right back to the exp grind. What, you want to auction? Mail stuff to your bank alt and swap over. If you insist on travelling there in person on each and every toon, see my previous paragraph and go cry in a towel in your closet about Blizzard wasting your time. If you insist on causing yourself to spend more time doing things you've no leg to stand on when you complain about how long those things take.

This change will have nearly 0 impact on anyone who plays with any sense of strategy, planning or forsight. None whatsoever. It is thus not a time sink.

I am beginning to think you don't even play this game. Let's look at this from the endgame raiding stand point. Ok, my hearth is in Plaguelands because I am leveling herbing or mining or whatever when I only have a short amount of time to play. Tonight, we're raiding in the BRM raid, no biggie, tomorrow we're raiding in the Uldum area raid. We raid late, I get a portal to SW and go to bed, because I work. Get on for 6pm raid after getting home at 5:30pm. No biggie, I have 30 minutes. 10 minutes of travel minimum, it's 5:40, I sit here, like a good raid member and wait for 20 minutes or log out and do something on an alt. Log on alt, I'm hearthed in SW, I think I want to go to do some questing or herbing in Twilight Highlands, I haven't gotten far enough in the quest chain to unlock the portal from SW, so I end up just flying out there as a "strategic preparation". Takes around 5 minutes. Now it's 5:50, after logging / deciding what to do etc. this is an easy assumption. More raid members log in, and we decide not to do the Uldum raid because we want to try the one in Hyjal tonight because we got some upgrades for people, and have a better feel for the strat than we did previously. Well, that's about another 10 minute flight. So, all in all I've been logged in for 30 minutes, and 25 have been traveling. Of course, I could just say, hey, raid, summon me. But then I risk being looked at as the "lazy ass who always needs a summon" or I could get a portal from a mage, if there are any around, or if they are willing to answer.

All in all, you're right, for normal, well thought out leveling, or preplanned events, the hubs in Dalaran / Shat don't solve a lot. But you can not plan 100%, can not forsee 100%, and so on. And the entire system of travel that involves waiting on your character to be moved from point A to point B is a time sink, it's entire reason for being is to slow down the game, and basically spread out your boredom. If you took all of the time that the average person spends "traveling" between quests / dungeons (before LFD) and adding every second of it up over the course of 5 years of playing WoW, I'd wager it to be around 10%. Consider that a lot of people are probably around 150-200days played and you get a LOT of time spent in the game just waiting on travel.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is bad / wrong / unnecessary, but if you think this isn't a time sink, well, your mentality on things scares me.

It could be just me, but I don't honestly use Dalaran as just a place to sit and log out, my issues with getting rid of these hubs are more along the lines of, "oh crap, something came up, a friend logged in that wants my help, a guildy is getting ganked, I changed my mind on where I want to quest, oh, raid changed tonight everyone to different raid, etc..." and having to spend a bunch of time flying all over the world, is a big inconvenience.

---------- Post added 2010-09-27 at 01:47 PM ----------

Exactly, the only people that have supported this change only make asinine arguments such as 'better for the game' and 'back in my day' bullshit that proves there's no benefit for this change in the overall aspect of the game. There's absolutely zero to be had with this change, and while there is only little to be lost that's still a considerable loss compared to zero gain.

I don't see why people can't understand my points like this guy. 100% agree.

[Paulosio]

There never used to be portals and everyone managed fine even before flying mounts.

Even without portals travelling around is far easier than it ever was in classic. Remember trying to get to IF as NELF anyone ? Now there's a boat direct to SW from darkshore...

I can only see this being annoying for a levelling character who might want to leave outland / northrend while levlling to use an AH in the old world.

Besides this do we even know for sure that the portals aren't just being moved or there isn't some other solution being implemented to improve travel?

[Plagued00]

There never used to be portals and everyone managed fine even before flying mounts.

Even without portals travelling around is far easier than it ever was in classic. Remember trying to get to IF as NELF anyone ? Now there's a boat direct to SW from darkshore...

I can only see this being annoying for a levelling character who might want to leave outland / northrend while levlling to use an AH in the old world.

Besides this do we even know for sure that the portals aren't just being moved or there isn't some other solution being implemented to improve travel?

I would hesitate to say "managed fine" before flying mounts. That's like saying that we managed fine with horses and boats/trains before cars, and then we got planes. How many people would be pissed off if you took away planes? A better question is, why take away planes if there's no advantage / disadvantage?

This post was intended to get people's views on my ideas for alternatives that I feel would be acceptable to replace the portal hubs.

[Siton]

I would hesitate to say "managed fine" before flying mounts. That's like saying that we managed fine with horses and boats/trains before cars, and then we got planes. How many people would be pissed off if you took away planes? A better question is, why take away planes if there's no advantage / disadvantage?

This post was intended to get people's views on my ideas for alternatives that I feel would be acceptable to replace the portal hubs.

How is WoW irl?

[Mixon]

There you go Adam, fixed your comment so it made sense. If you want that to be more than your opinion, perhaps make a case for Blizzard changing some of our time able to play to time needed to travel before we can play.

And if that's indeed a good thing, then dungeon finder should go away too. It's a convenience like the portals and has left the world empty of people.

thats actually a good idea, i have found the game much less interesting since the dungeon finder was implemented. i admit at first i thought it was amazing and was so happy to just be able to q up. but since that time i have found myself getting else and less interested in
the game. i just log in raid for a few mins and then log out. i could just be getting tired of wow or it could be because its the end of the xpac but i really think its because so much of the adventure of the game has been removed to streamline stuff. it just dosent feel like and rpg anymore but more of an fps style game, you just turn it on q up for a team and shoot some stuff then your done and go on with your life.

also the way he stated that was far less retarded than the ppl who post stuff like:
fail post is fail or fuzzy cat is fuzzy or wow game is wow and the the other incoherient crap like that posing as reply to a post and attempting to hop on the short bus band wagon thinking it makes them funny and cute.

[woxingma]

There you go Adam, fixed your comment so it made sense. If you want that to be more than your opinion, perhaps make a case for Blizzard changing some of our time able to play to time needed to travel before we can play.

And if that's indeed a good thing, then dungeon finder should go away too. It's a convenience like the portals and has left the world empty of people.

Wait, so you were excited about keeping your hearth in Dalaran after the Expansion? You liked having to travel all the way back to the old world for trainers as you leveled 70-80?

really?

[Mixon]

How is WoW irl?

irl = in real life

thus your post reads

how is wow in real life?

im not really sure how to answer that question. maybe your question was intended to read:

how is wow like real life?

or

how is wow lrl?

in which case i would say its nothing like real life and is becoming less and less like rl making it seem less and less like an rpg. which seems odd in the respect, why would anyone want to play a game that is just like there real life, but thats not really the case your dealing with, it more that ppl like to play a game they can connect with and feel like they are a part of the world in the game. meaning if to far fetched with and deviates to far from the players imagination then it becomes less impressive and feels less and less like an rpg and more like a fps that you are playing rather then being a part of.

anyways thats just my take on it and if i bastardized your question to much and wrote a response to a question you did not ask....my bad.

[woxingma]

Exactly, the only people that have supported this change only make asinine arguments such as 'better for the game' and 'back in my day' bullshit that proves there's no benefit for this change in the overall aspect of the game. There's absolutely zero to be had with this change, and while there is only little to be lost that's still a considerable loss compared to zero gain.

The benefit for having trainers in Shat and Dal is you won't have to spend so much time when you are leveling up making your way back to the Old world while leveling 60-70 and then 70-80. That is more than a zero gain.

[quras]

The portals should have been left alone.

It was a nice little convenient mode of travel that has been fine for the past 2 expansions. This one should be no different.

[Plagued00]

irl = in real life

thus your post reads

how is wow in real life?

im not really sure how to answer that question. maybe your question was intended to read:

how is wow like real life?

or

how is wow lrl?

in which case i would say its nothing like real life and is becoming less and less like rl making it seem less and less like an rpg. which seems odd in the respect, why would anyone want to play a game that is just like there real life, but thats not really the case your dealing with, it more that ppl like to play a game they can connect with and feel like they are a part of the world in the game. meaning if to far fetched with and deviates to far from the players imagination then it becomes less impressive and feels less and less like an rpg and more like a fps that you are playing rather then being a part of.

anyways thats just my take on it and if i bastardized your question to much and wrote a response to a question you did not ask....my bad.

Sadly, he was being a troll. He saw real life objects and decided to be a douche. At least, this is my take on it.

[Secarian]

I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe this has been mentioned before, but a lot of people seem oblivious to it so I'll say it anyway.

There is one quite important reason to dislike this change. Spambots. They can access Orgrimmar and Stormwind, but both Dalaran and Shattrath are unreachable at level 1 without mage portals or warlock summons. I never use Orgrimmar when I need the AH or something that Dalaran doesn't have atm, because of the damn level 1 orc warlocks with random names piling up in the air on the main square. Don't tell me this doesn't annoy anyone else, because at least a lot of guildies agree with me on this.

So, unless Blizzard figures out a way to keep the spambots away (suggestion 1: Captchas on character creation. Suggestion 2: Make starting areas phased and impossible to leave unless you finish the quests there, like the DK starting zone), I will rather stay in a portal-less Dalaran than Orgrimmar at 85...

[Eroginous]

This is for the people that are for them removing portals in Dal/Shatt--the ones that says it shrinks the world:

Without portals traveling:
Im in Org.
the raid im going to is on Eastern Kingdoms side.
I take the zep to UC
I fly over the continent seeing areas I've never seen before.
I get to the raid

With portals:
Im in Dal/shatt.
the raid im going to is on Eastern Kingdoms side.
I take the port to UC
I fly over the continent seeing areas I've never seen before.
I get to the raid.

It's kind of a moot point to say that traveling via zepp vs port is much different (we've seen all the zep pathing already). Your still going to have to travel from a major city to the raid that could be far away or just wait for a warlock summon (making the world smaller right? Maybe they should get rid of lock summons too.)

It's nothing, but an inconvience, and nothing more than that.

-OR-

You're in org.
You need to get to Uldum so that you can raid with your guild.
You PST a mage that is in your guild, who also happens to be in org.
He portals you both.
Problem solved.

There is a class who has the ability to portal anywhere that a portal can go. L2 mage, broski.


For anyone wondering why there was such a long travel time in other MMOs:

To add to the feeling of 'epicness' about the game. I for one, fully support the change. One of the tings that wow hasn't really ever done, was immerse the player in the world they are playing. You never really feel like a part of it, you just feel like the world was set up for you, exclusively, and you come/go as you please. Portals are another way for you to completely ignore the entire world, in all its beauty/ugliness. What is the point of having massive empty zones that no one goes to, now that they can level in BGs/dungeons much faster, and never have to worry about spending time going from point A to point B?

The last few characters I have been leveling, I have noticed that there is NO one around in any place I go. This change will help repopulate zones and keep people traveling through older content. It will be nice to see other people around in azeroth.

This change is good.

[Belize]

I have an even better idea! how about making all the taxis rocket ships! it's similar to OPs but cooler and with more fire and explosions!

[gherkin]

imho at least put 2 portals for each factions, one for the eastern kingdom and another for kalimdor in Shattrah and put 2 of those portal and shattrah's in dal.

This forces people to load Dalaran and Shattrath unnecessarily and causes server lag. The amount of lag is tiny but when everyone does it it adds up.

[Deleted]

I kinda got used to shattrah / dalaran, actually I have never played WoW without these portals . From my point of view mages will now be back in business, get ready to constant spam...

I myself dont usually mind taking a boat, FP or afk fly somewhere, cannot say I am often in a rush. I am probably the only guy who goes from SW to Northrend by boat and then flies to Dalaran on 310% when HS is on CD.

[Togarox]

Why? Do you RP being Jaina's mister or something? lol

Jaina's hawt

---------- Post added 2010-09-27 at 10:09 PM ----------

I would hesitate to say "managed fine" before flying mounts. That's like saying that we managed fine with horses and boats/trains before cars, and then we got planes. How many people would be pissed off if you took away planes? A better question is, why take away planes if there's no advantage / disadvantage?

This post was intended to get people's views on my ideas for alternatives that I feel would be acceptable to replace the portal hubs.

Following along with your example, at the same time if all the planes in the world broke down, we would all still manage to live our lives. I don't think he was making the argument that it would be easier I think he was mainly talking to those who are acting like the sky is falling.

---------- Post added 2010-09-27 at 10:15 PM ----------

I can only see this being annoying for a levelling character who might want to leave outland / northrend while levlling to use an AH in the old world.

Besides this do we even know for sure that the portals aren't just being moved or there isn't some other solution being implemented to improve travel?

It actually wont be as annoying for the lower level players because they will just save their hearth to Org/SW. It will actually help them because it cuts out the middle man of having to go through Shat. or Dal.

[SobeBauxite]

From what I've seen about the decision to remove portals, and other comments made by blues about travel in game over the years, removing them isn't a decision they made solely to screw you out of 10 minutes of your time (I'd argue the entire game is one huge timesink, so arguing about timesinks in your timesink is redundant and kind of stupid, but that's my opinion.), but it's a decision they made in order to populate the world with people. I like leveling characters, my main server's got the full set of every pve heirloom and I just level for fun because I'm not fun, and I've never seen more than 20 people outside of the capital cities in the entire questing run of any character. Log in to Dalaran at any given time, except in the dead of night, and you can't shake a stick without hitting 20 elves.

Plus, the other thing you should consider is the pvp aspect. One of the big problems with having the portals is that no one ever had to go outside of the capital cities, and hence no one ever left safe zones, and pvp was killed (bgs contributed, but making it so there was no reason to be anywhere but a capital city is what really did it in.). The entire footing of Cataclysm is that they're bringing the conflict back. It's kind of hard to have orc players fighting human players if all of the orcs just sit around in Orgrimmar and all of the humans just sit around in stormwind, making them get out of the cities is how you get them into the fighting.

Yes, it is less convenient for you. So what? You can't compare airplanes and horses in this one, because airplanes massively shrunk the world to the point where what used to be a 4 month long slog through the mountains became a 2 hour trip with free drinks. Huge difference. In WoW, riding the horse, to beat the analogy to death, IS the game. Having to travel, see other players, and do things in the world is what they're trying to get you to do, not sip on a cocktail while you essentially waste all of your money on a game you really aren't playing anymore. Just try to keep an open mind on these things, and try to accept change instead of poo pooing all over it because it's a timesink in your timesink.

[TerraMagus]

There is a class who has the ability to portal anywhere that a portal can go. L2 mage, broski.

There is also a player attached to that class so implying that using them as a vending machine is a cureall, at best, absolutely fucking retarded.

Let me put it another way... have you EVER played a Mage? Do you have ANY idea how goddamn irritating it is to throw up some auctions, and have some asshole demand a free portal from you? Or food? Now, I understand the food thing. If you're in LFD with me, you'll get some food if you ask. But a portal? I am NOT dropping everything that I was doing, grouping with you (in turn losing my place in whatever I was queueing for), and NOT getting paid for my services. You people are damnable LEECHES, and I wish there was a way to be rid of you.