where did my mana go?

[Taidaisher]

Here is my armory, http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Brakandaran
I was in my enh spec/gear earlier but logged out as resto.

I was in an ICC 10 yesterday with another resto shammy. My GS was about 300 less then his, but our specs were the same. He beat me on the meters by about 10-15% depending on the fight, but he also has me on overhealing by about 30%, so I'm not too concerned about meters. The thing I wasn't able to figure out is how the hell he kept his mana up. He has 506 mana regen vs my 440. But he was staying around 80% mana while I was dropping to about 30% during fights. Watershield was up, tank was ESed, and I was dropping stoneskin - flametongue - mans spring - wrath of air.

I was casting chain heal throughout the fights, with the occasional riptide, lesser healing, nature's swiftness+tidal force, healing wave thrown in.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Chareoss]

This is the sort of question that would matter in the next expansion.

[Baabinator]

Well you bonus healing is extremely low imo.

You would probably need to heal twice where he needed to heal only once.

Also, get rid of Talisman of Resurgance and get a real regeneration or SP trinket.

If you get a 1h+shield you will have more Spellpower as well.

[Seriss]

First thing: Is your meta active? I only browsed through your gear quickly, but I seem to have missed a gem that qualifies as a red one which you need to activate your metagem. It helps your mana when it's active.

Your trinkets aren't that great. The mp5 one is simply bad and only useful for pushing your GS. Otherwise it won't do much. The int-trinket isn't all that great either. I'd recommend farming something easily farmable like the int+manareg trinket vom ToC5 normal. It has int like yours, but the point is that it has a really nice manareg proc. Alternatively, in the same instance you'll find the Abyssrune, which is a dps trinket but has Haste as its main stat. It would be useful for you too. Another trinket drops from Sjonnir in HoS (I'm not entirely if it was on heroic or normal mode), the Spark of Life. It has haste on it and an mp5 proc. I wore that one until TotGC actually. Blue but very nice.

I'm sure you're aware that your gear can still use a lot of improving, especially your weapon, so I won't go into detail about not being haste capped, not having a bazillion % of crit or spellpower and stuff.

The other shaman probably has more haste and crit if his GS is higher than yours, assuming that he geared and gemmed correctly (meaning that he values haste highest, likes crit and tries to avoid mp5. Mp5 is a wasted stat on gear, but we sure do like trinkets and metagems with manareg procs ^^).

On 10-man, chainheal isn't a very good heal to use unless you know that there's a lot of AoE dmg incoming and that people are huddling together. If chainheal can't jump, it doesn't have as many chances at critting and therefore won't return as much mana as it would if it hit all 4 targets. Often, using fewer chainheals and more riptide-lhw combos works better in a 10-man. The mana return from the latter is also better than it is from chainheals that don't hit at least a few targets as riptide grants an extremely high crit chance to the following two lhws which then have a rather high chance to return a large portion of the mana cost to you due to improved water shield.

[Gray_Matter]

I was in an ICC 10 yesterday with another resto shammy. My GS was about 300 less then his, but our specs were the same. He beat me on the meters by about 10-15% depending on the fight, but he also has me on overhealing by about 30%, so I'm not too concerned about meters. The thing I wasn't able to figure out is how the hell he kept his mana up. He has 506 mana regen vs my 440. But he was staying around 80% mana while I was dropping to about 30% during fights. Watershield was up, tank was ESed, and I was dropping stoneskin - flametongue - mans spring - wrath of air.

Did he maybe have healing stream totem down?

[frester]

as seriss said, your meta seems to be not active (can't find red gem, maybe you had it on your back not sure), also your trinkets are just bad i know it's not easy to get them but do farm toc5man normal, as this one is really good.

and ch is not the best go-to spell in 10man as more often than not it won't jump to max number of targets, i use rt+lhw mainly

[Deleted]

Healing is also about knowing when to use what spell.

Topping meters is never an objective I try to go for, healers shouldn't try to "win" anything, like the DPS classes do. If you do, you'll end up being hit or killed because you didn't pay attention to the fight.

Much like the DPSers who top meters on Toravon - they never, ever, move out of the Orbs or even try to kill them.

[Taidaisher]

Thank you for the responses.
I apologize for my newbness, but it seems I logged out in the incorrect gear set. I play on my pc at home and laptop on the road, and my laptop (where I logged from this morning) didn't have the correct resto set.

I have corrected my gear set and logged off with the correct set this time. My weapons are http://www.wowhead.com/item=50227/surgeons-needle with (Chalice of Benedictus) http://www.wowhead.com/item=47742 as my OH. The Meta isn't active because I'm a dumbass and forgot to gem properly with my new shoulder.

Trinket wise, I have
Soul Preserver http://www.wowhead.com/item=37111
Forge Ember http://www.wowhead.com/item=37660


@Seriss
I don't want to post the other shammy's armory, because I don't want to involve someone who might not want to have their name mentioned. However,
Bonus Damage: 2890
Bonus Healing: 3091
Hit Rating: 0
Crit Chance: 30.02%
Haste Rating: 785
Mana Regen: 506

Which is
>776 BH
<49 hit
.23% crit
<2 haste
>39 mana regen

then I have.
I know my gear needs imporovement, which is something I'm working on as life permits me to. Thank you for the suggestions, I will have to keep a closer eye on the CH hops for the mana return, that might be my problem right there.

@Gray_Matter
He did have healing stream down, but my concenr isn't so much the healing difference as it is the mana pool. He had 27k and stayed at approx 80% or so vs my 24k at <30%.

@Ixuzcc
I completely agree about topping the meters. Like I said, he had me beat on the meters but was significantly higher then me on the overheal chart as well. I would rather be an efficient healer, then overheal my mana out. But like I also said, he stayed pretty full on mana where as I was pouring it out.

[Deleted]

well, he has way more sp than you apparently, thats why he can manage to keep his mana up less heals heal for more

[frester]

also regen trinkets are huge help and they do not show on character stats and remember that more mana you have better the replenishment is etc, also that was quite severe gear difference

[Gray_Matter]

He did have healing stream down, but my concenr isn't so much the healing difference as it is the mana pool. He had 27k and stayed at approx 80% or so vs my 24k at <30%.

It is important because that gives him 10+% more healing without any mana usage.

---------- Post added 2010-09-28 at 11:39 AM ----------

Someone posted this elitist jerks thread for me on a previous occasion and it has been invaluable:

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t99442-shaman_restoration/

Also try and get hold of this for mana regen, it's a nice trinket and pretty easy to get:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50260

---------- Post added 2010-09-28 at 11:42 AM ----------

Alos, use Greater Mana Regen for your chest enchant.

[Seriss]

Also try and get hold of this for mana regen, it's a nice trinket and pretty easy to get:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50260

---------- Post added 2010-09-28 at 11:42 AM ----------

Alos, use Greater Mana Regen for your chest enchant.

Eh.. no... just... no. The snowflake is horrible for shamans, and mp5 enchants aren't worth it. Maybe it'll change in Cata, but for now... no.

Taidaisher obviously knows this as he picked sp/crit enchants. Well done

[Taidaisher]

I haven't gemmed/enchanted mana regen, based off the info from the resto FAQ
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...FAQ-%283.3%29*
According to that link I should be aiming for 250 Mp5, and I am currently at 469.

[Zycho123]

havent played for a while, is replenishment group wide or raid wide? that could be the difference

[styks]

I haven't gemmed/enchanted mana regen, based off the info from the resto FAQ
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...FAQ-%283.3%29*
According to that link I should be aiming for 250 Mp5, and I am currently at 469.

its a good read, just remember, its a guide.

every ones play styles are different

me personally, i think having over 1100 haste is too much, i don't need fast chainheals in raids to keep people up.

i have 66 mp5 casting on my gear pretty much because i have to, 30 from the badge cloak (dreamwalkers wont drop) and t10 gloves for 4pce, however i also have heroic solace and lunar dust, really great trinkets

the secret is to use your heals effectively, using chainheal on melee and tanks, lesser on ranged, try to avoid casting chainheal for one target only, use up your tidal waves with lesser healing wave, more chance to crit and proc imp water shield,

besides that, try get gear with crit

use manatide early, in those 7-8 minute fights you can use it twice

make sure theres replenishment in the raid

and finally just to cover my ass, this is my personal healing setup, not telling you how much mp5 or haste you should have

[Silorn]

Depending on the content you're doing having 80% mana left at the end of a boss fight shows he has a lot of wasted regen, personally on my shaman I end at around 10-20% mana after using all of my mana regen uses, and I'm always winning on HPS by the end unless I'm doing something like normal festergut with a disc priest, also don't have the meters showing until after the fight, concentrate on what your doing, using Chain heal all the time is just bad in 10man, Chain heal is great when tanks are getting cleaved or you have people running together for brain links on blood queen, but the +25% crit lesser healing waves are insane for getting people topped quickly, with hasted healing waves for tanks, and ancestral awakening healing helps pretty much everywhere.

Don't worry if your mana isn't always above 50%, ending up low is fine, especially in 10man where you usually don't have every regen buff, its when you're going oom at 30% when you start having problems.

[Azyoulike]

As Silorn just said - CH isn't that amazing in 10 man that you should be just spamming it all the time. When you do cast it, selecting the right target for the CH makes a big difference. If you CH people in your party then CH will only jump to other people in your party, which means often as not it won't jump much at all.

This both gimps your throughput and your water shield regen.

Likewise if you CH somebody stood too far from the rest of the raid.

[Taidaisher]

Thank you Silorn & Azyoulike.
My concern has been that my mana usage was based off my lack of this or misspecced that or incorrect play style or something like that. A failure on my part vs normal mana usage.

With the reset today, hopefully I'll be able to get into another raid and keep a closer eye on my spell usage and mana consumption/regeneration.

Thanks again for all of the helpful info/suggestions. I appreciate all the input and welcome additional assistance.

[Gray_Matter]

Eh.. no... just... no. The snowflake is horrible for shamans, and mp5 enchants aren't worth it. Maybe it'll change in Cata, but for now... no.

Taidaisher obviously knows this as he picked sp/crit enchants. Well done

So are you saying that the Elitist Jerks thread is wrong?

They have:

"Chest: Greater Mana Restoration HEP = 10
Powerful Stats ~ 4.8 mp5 (5.5 mp5 with Mana Tide) and 1.8 spellpower HEP = 8.6 or 9.3 with Mana Tide"

for the chest enchant and they put the snowflake as the 7th best trinket.

[Seriss]

The trinket list at elitist jerks is to be read carefully. Look at it for a moment. Bauble of true blood? Despite its sparkling item level, it's one of the most terrible trinkets for PvE if you have a chance at getting something with spellpower or haste instead. For PvP it rocks though. Binding Stone? Terrible for PvE, but they still list it. You can't go completely without a trinket, so they list everything that a shaman can use and that is from places where people still go these days.

What they overlook completely are the DPS haste trinkets in ICC and RS. Also the Herkuml War Token is simply left out. Why? They have oodles of haste and are just plain awesome and considered best-in-slot options by many players in the better raids out there.

As for the chest enchant: Over months, we have repeatedly established that mp5 is a wasted stat for shaman. I do not concur with elitists jerks' mp5 recommendation for chest enchants. Powerful Stats has been the way to go since the start of the expansion. It must be an oversight that they even list the mp5 enchant as a viable option for an endgame raider.

Valueing mp5 as highly as spellpower in their HEP value table is fail, imho.

The fact remains however, that mp5 is currently a wasted stat on gear that we will only take if the other stats on the respective piece are superior.