The Cat Guide - 4.3

[Deleted]

Are there any enforced haste breakpoints as such for feral? Such as in a given period such as deathwings tendons on spine,yor's slimes(if u need to do it) or madness tentacles where over you do not gain sufficient bonus, such as your not able to get that extra shred for example on the target in the given time, while you will of gained a few auto attacks could the value of crit (so those hits u do, have a higher chance of critting) or mastery(so the bleed ticks u will be doing do more damage than the few auto attacks managed) (for 19 seconds tendons for example if you are @27% haste, you will need ~30% to gain an additional attack in those 19 seconds, so any haste between that(in terms of tendon damage is wasted, so wouldnt crit(the chance on more damage and cp..which if u dont get u lose nothing since the haste is wasted) or mastery (for the few ticks they do)become more of an advantage).
Over the course of a full fight even the small advantage in haste will allow for more auto attacks.1% haste= ~1 auto attack a minute.

I do fail at the more complex maths(and of setting them up) but from a hit=exp>haste or a mastery>haste=crit what effect would hit to 8%>haste>crit>mastery>exp have of damage. Even reforging out of exp id assume you woulld be around 15 rating, keep hit capped to make rotation a bit cleaner. and then haste for more auto attacks+ crit so they have more chance to crit+ more cps for finishers.
using ask mr robot (which i know probably isnt reliable for the info i want shows that going that way im @ similar mastery levels to hit/exp capping, lose less than half my exp and gain just shy of 4% crit

[SmokeyIllidan]

The exact quote when you need to switch into bear is "shield them in this dark hour" or something like that. Buff is applied when he says "shield" so you just switch to bear, got buff, switch to cat. You can see if buff was used when you see animation of rocks around you and tanks. Buff applies to barskin and Si, dunno if FR.

Awesome appreciate the thorough response.

[Tygroen]

Ranked on our 3 heroic bosses tonight
#46 Morchok
#113 Warlord Zon'ozz
#195 Yor'sahj the Unsleeping

All 3 without 3% Damage buff, the last without melee haste. >.< Are there just no 10 man kitties?

[Keeyra]

Quick question:
Is the list below correct? (Weapons from best to worst for kitties)

Normal Kiril, Fury of Beasts
Heroic Spire of Coagulated Globules
LFR Kiril, Fury of Beasts
Normal Spire of Coagulated Globules

I'm unsure, that the normal Deathwing Weapon is better than the Heroic Yor'sahj one.

[Infs]

The exact quote when you need to switch into bear is "shield them in this dark hour" or something like that. Buff is applied when he says "shield" so you just switch to bear, got buff, switch to cat. You can see if buff was used when you see animation of rocks around you and tanks. Buff applies to barskin and Si, dunno if FR.

It applies to FR as well, making it 40 sec duration/1.5 min CD. Pretty awesome.

[Deleted]

Ranked on our 3 heroic bosses tonight
#46 Morchok
#113 Warlord Zon'ozz
#195 Yor'sahj the Unsleeping

All 3 without 3% Damage buff, the last without melee haste. >.< Are there just no 10 man kitties?

Seems so, i ranked no.1 for normal ultrax last week with 39k dps (logs not up yet but soon) and I hardly pushed myself.

[Tygroen]

Seems so, i ranked no.1 for normal ultrax last week with 39k dps (logs not up yet but soon) and I hardly pushed myself.

The morchok one I was super surprised at, I was stuck with the other melee in our group on Kohcrom, and I ended up having to run out for shards, and I'm not sure I even got Hero (and that was before I started doing the Kiril/Spire macro). Not to mention all the buffs I was missing.

Quick question:
Is the list below correct? (Weapons from best to worst for kitties)

Normal Kiril, Fury of Beasts
Heroic Spire of Coagulated Globules
LFR Kiril, Fury of Beasts
Normal Spire of Coagulated Globules

I'm unsure, that the normal Deathwing Weapon is better than the Heroic Yor'sahj one.

Best to worst:

Heroic Kiril's > Heroic Spire > Normal Kiril > Normal Spire > LFR Kiril

[Rioo]

Ranked on our 3 heroic bosses tonight
#46 Morchok
#113 Warlord Zon'ozz
#195 Yor'sahj the Unsleeping

All 3 without 3% Damage buff, the last without melee haste. >.< Are there just no 10 man kitties?

Heh, it was worse in T11 when I still played full time kitty except for 2 fights. Ranked 1-5 on every fight week after week, sometimes without pre-potting on farm bosses. One time I got rank 36 on Chim for cats, only problem was I tanked a lot of the time. Fun times on AC too when I beat the previous rank 1 by 1k DPS on our first heroic kill. And back then 1k was quite alot when 20-22k was really good DPS for that fight.

I think the number of 10-man guilds have grown quite a lot, and easier content gives more compitition on the harder bosses. When we sometimes would get our early heroic kills there could be 2 ferals ranked in total.

[Cayssaris]

Quick question: Last Defender of Azeroth, did they fix it? Or can we still start the fight in bear for the cooldown thing. I can test this later in LFR but I'd rather just ask.

In order for them to "fix it" they would need Thrall to dig into your spec to see what your actually speced as. Or more blunt to see if you have the tanking talents vs the dps talents. The fix will more then likely be implemented in 5.0(?) when they split bear and kitty specs into two separate trees.

[Deleted]

Going back to the Spine heroic discussion. After reading the recent posts I tried changing my reforging from haste to crit. The result is 2k crit rating, 1k mastery and 1k haste (can't drop the haste any lower). So now my question is, is there some ratio between crit and mastery that I should be aiming at (60:40 or 70:30 crit:mastery for example) or do I simply stack up as much crit as I can?

Also, this is the priority that I am aiming for (taken from a previous post here): fff - !ravage - mangle - rake - shred - tf+berserk - rip - shred - rake - !ravage - spam shred - if you are above 60 energy use 5cp FB, else - just spam shred, use fb as finisher on last second. Does this change in any way with the crit heavy reforging compared to the haste heavy one?

[Elunedra]

the post about crit stacking where specificly for the burst dps on spine of deathwing

[ceelion]

How does the VP ring stack up to the other 2 rings the same ilvl. I don't raid H yet and don't plan to for a decent amount of time and was curious.

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=77111;77231;78011

Is the 10 agi from the Primordial Shadow ring socket bonus enough to make up for the expertise instead of haste?

[Deleted]

We're talking about Heroic Spine. No one is going to reforge for N Spine, but H Spine is on a totally new level over the first 6 heroic bosses and all the raids are completely getting their DPS to respec for max burst and rearranging the raid comps to favor bursty specs like arcane mages and subtletly rogues. Reforging for max burst over 19 seconds (the Tendon is only targettable ~4s after it starts the channel), is something a couple of ferals have asked about and is a good question.

I have some preliminary results from Mew (a modified version which allows for pre-SR and pre-Stampede).
No bloodlust, no pre-buff: Haste=0.96 Crit=1.97 Mastery=1.17 Hit=Exp=2.41
No bloodlust, with pre-buff: Haste=1.17 Crit=1.96 Mastery=1.30 Hit=Exp=2.66
Bloodlust, no pre-buff: Haste=5.87 Crit=2.22 Mastery=1.18 Hit=Exp=3.80
Bloodlust, with pre-buff: Haste=-3.24 Crit=2.19 Mastery=1.27 Hit=Exp=4.48

The results without bloodlust looks as expected, but the results with bloodlust looks really strange and requires more investigation. Haste becoming almost as good as Agility without the pre-buff and giving negative value with the pre-buff indicates the possibility of a bug, or it could be some unforeseen mechanism that has been triggered.

with the negative value while i doubt it is negative, but could the value of haste end up being devalued...with SR and hero in 19 seconds majority of the damage will be auto attacks and the amount of haste needed to gain additional auto attacks is so high its not obtainable so haste is wasted, and in addition you dont gain the additional shred in the 19 seconds.

Also in regards to my previous post, about reforging hit>haste>crit>mastery. an attempt at using mew an encounter needs to last around 80-90 seconds for mastery>crit. Morchok, your looking @black blood phase every 90 seconds, Yor slimes are 15 second durations, with 1 minute between each. could it be viable, would like someone else to at attempt to check on mew

[tangedyn]

with the negative value while i doubt it is negative, but could the value of haste end up being devalued...with SR and hero in 19 seconds majority of the damage will be auto attacks and the amount of haste needed to gain additional auto attacks is so high its not obtainable so haste is wasted, and in addition you dont gain the additional shred in the 19 seconds.

No, when Mew gives a negative RSV, it means that getting more haste actually reduced the DPS. I haven't had time to investigate this yet.

Also in regards to my previous post, about reforging hit>haste>crit>mastery. an attempt at using mew an encounter needs to last around 80-90 seconds for mastery>crit. Morchok, your looking @black blood phase every 90 seconds, Yor slimes are 15 second durations, with 1 minute between each. could it be viable, would like someone else to at attempt to check on mew

Morchok is different from a 80-90 encounter. For an 80-90 encounter, the boss dies at the end of the 80-90 encounter, while Morchok continues to take damage for bleeds.
If you want to sim a Morchok encounter, you could try looking for Leafkiller's script where he has an option to sim an Atramedes encounter, which is pretty much the same.

[Deleted]

Haste is better for most fights.

And dont take other druids as reference. Maybe they are reforged for particular progression boss.

Well tbh, if haste is better for most fights then you should write that instead of "Mastery is the best stat now". I'm not here to smack someone in the face but you get my point. Just my 2 cents.

[Nathanyel]

The fix will more then likely be implemented in 5.0(?) when they split bear and kitty specs into two separate trees.

You mean, when kitties simply won't have most of the defensive CDs (save Barkskin) anymore

[Deleted]

Morchok is different from a 80-90 encounter. For an 80-90 encounter, the boss dies at the end of the 80-90 encounter, while Morchok continues to take damage for bleeds.
If you want to sim a Morchok encounter, you could try looking for Leafkiller's script where he has an option to sim an Atramedes encounter, which is pretty much the same.

There is a reason i normally avoid using them:

Using Mihir-cat-410 i got:
Strength: 1.700877870145785 +/- 0.2235272278433296
Agility: 4.593378178940038 +/- 0.22408252317588462
Attack Power: 1.6198836858531285 +/- 0.2235272278433296
Haste Rating: 1.4432949940596154 +/- 0.22148212492483388
Crit Rating: 1.654330133217154 +/- 0.2229690892794045
Mastery Rating: 1.6242389656807064 +/- 0.22327031566393224
Hit Rating: 1.5584054900559348 +/- 0.023039429879612
Expertise Rating: 1.5739578285615112 +/- 0.028560497207288798
Weapon DPS: 6.310594921572775 +/- 0.22489540613789694
Crit as strongest secondary.....i screwed up somewhere. will look again after raid however.

Edit yeah did too few, and redid a with more (10000)...but even then crit is top with haste dropping.
So that would suggest crit is our most valuable stat

[tangedyn]

That's for Atramedes encounter?
Well you are definitely not running enough iterations, looking at your 95% CI values.
It wasn't too long ago (right at the start of Cata) when our priority was Mastery > Crit > Everything else.
Crit is supposed to go up in value for encounters where you are unable to attack for periods of time, allowing your energy bar to fill up before attacking again.

[Zheryn]

Yay finally got Yor HC 10 down on our 3d attempt of the night after getting a DK tank lolz Was like a totally new fight switching from warrior to DK tank... Forgot to log, would have got #19 or something.

Got rank #4 on Morchok 10 HC with 35k tho even while switching to bear for every stomp.

[Deleted]

File>New>Druid(Feral)

1)Using it direct of armoury:
Haste Rating: 1.2472737444443192 +/- 0.1670782321620447
Crit Rating: 1.2502020111125602 +/- 0.16633278948178004
Mastery Rating: 1.23860445555536 +/- 0.1668602090503041
Hit Rating: 1.128139687536049 +/- 0.01728862082262046
Expertise Rating: 1.1063775007112249 +/- 0.021445634595378942

2)After Reforging hit to cap>haste>crit>mastery
Haste Rating: 1.4389408277782059 +/- 0.16727627259265124
Crit Rating: 1.2861540833337495 +/- 0.1688756997101318
Mastery Rating: 1.2670585888887944 +/- 0.16869306905857553
Hit Rating: 1.145584828593017 +/- 0.0173012330667235
Expertise Rating: 1.1246788928013822 +/- 0.021226633488030205

3)Then using the stat weights from first and reforging based on those stat weights
Haste Rating: 1.3730239805551172 +/- 0.1685155427035609
Crit Rating: 1.177626569444037 +/- 0.16847793102599268
Mastery Rating: 1.288855047221914 +/- 0.16778060721084595
Hit Rating: 1.1727786764364796 +/- 0.017473961133221805
Expertise Rating: 1.1462259236735528 +/- 0.021628120746060426

Then comparing them
1)>3)>2) Average dps over the samples
3)>1)>2) for the highest minimum dps possible
2)>1)>3) for the highest maximum dps possible

so am a little confused , wow do i manage to over complicate things.
i don't believe it was an atramedes style fight