DPS tanking why does it irritate so many.

[Lansow]

This is not Vanilla or BC. Trash does not last longer than 10 seconds and there is no CC to worry about. I follow the mantra "Kill it before it kills me." It's faster that a tank that picks his nose between pulls, you know that person " DnD isn't off CD" "Not enough rage yet" etc etc.

Sounds to me like your tanks aren't tanking heroics in dps gear like they should be to speed up the run.

Who are you to decide what the tank should or should not be doing? If you're not the tank, that's not your call.

---------- Post added 2010-11-02 at 01:45 PM ----------

Then why would you heal anyone after a pull and not wait until everyone drinks or eats back to full health/mana?

Now that would be douchebaggery right?

Warlocks assuming I'm going to heal their lifetap is the ignorance, not my refusal to do it. If they ask first, I always heal it. This could change in Cata, but probably not.

Also, since when is the warlock's mana bar MY responsibility as the healer? My mana is dedicated to other things first, and anything they get from me is a bonus. Expecting me to keep their mana up is ridiculous. ASKING me to assist is not. See the difference?

The douchebaggery comes from not only engaging in poor behavior, but defending it. You have not changed my opinion, nor will you.

[DarkFerret]

This completely different... you might now know it but this is how locks get mana, in general. It's about specific mechanics not douchebaggery...

Not to mention that 2 of 3 specs glyphed Life Tap for a spellpower increase when they used it. Anyone that didn't heal a life tapping lock was, in most cases, being the dick themselves. Exception being when two life taps would top the lock's mana off, and he does ten taps to put himself under 5% health.

[Weerra]

For me it depends on the situation.
My gear is far from awesome (avg level 255, with a pvp shield and cloak), but I can heal through almost anything 3.0 heroic can offer, tank or no tank.
If some overgeard dps (even far from OP, who could pretty much solo it), who queued as a dps, decides that a tank is just slowing the run and goes on to pull and slaughter the packs - I will heal him. He is making the run faster.
If some crappy dpser queued as a tank just for fast invite, doesn't hold aggro and still does crappy damage - he is walking to his death. He will not get a single heal. After he is lying cold on the floor, he will get no res from me and a /kick at a first opportunity.

If I am going to heal a dpstank, it will not be a little bitch who is making the run harder for me without speeding it up.

[Lansow]

Not to mention that 2 of 3 specs glyphed Life Tap for a spellpower increase when they used it. Anyone that didn't heal a life tapping lock was, in most cases, being the dick themselves. Exception being when two life taps would top the lock's mana off, and he does ten taps to put himself under 5% health.

As I said to a previous poster, it is not my responsibility to keep their self-buffs up, or assist them in keeping their mana bar full. If they ask me to do so, I will. If they come in expecting it, they'll be disappointed.

edit: Yes, that could be misinterpreted as me being a dick. It's funny how you'll defend one person expecting something without a word, but attack another asking for precisely the same thing. There's a word for that. Starts with an H. I'll let you find it.

[freezion]

For me it depends on the situation.
My gear is far from awesome (avg level 255, with a pvp shield and cloak), but I can heal through almost anything 3.0 heroic can offer, tank or no tank.
If some overgeard dps (even far from OP, who could pretty much solo it), who queued as a dps, decides that a tank is just slowing the run and goes on to pull and slaughter the packs - I will heal him. He is making the run faster.
If some crappy dpser queued as a tank just for fast invite, doesn't hold aggro and still does crappy damage - he is walking to his death. He will not get a single heal. After he is lying cold on the floor, he will get no res from me and a /kick at a first opportunity.

If I am going to heal a dpstank, it will not be a little bitch who is making the run harder for me without speeding it up.

you are the stereotypic impatient person, you are only allowing this to happen because the run goes faster, only doing it for your own benefit.
screw if the run goes faster, i would rather let it be 5 minutes slower and maybe help a person learning how to tank better then annoy them.
Personal would i rather have a new generation of competent tanks for cataclysm then DPS who STILL think they can tank in cataclysm.

[Isilarya]

I'm a frost dk that queues as tank for one main reason, my healer I queue with asks me to. 4 DPS + 1 Heal that power clears this content is better than trying to waste time with people who still think tanks are useful in heroics. That is something I blame on wrath's design more than anything but still at this point we are just justice point farming for nothing more than "teh lulz" Ive been capped 3 times and simply don't care to try to sell saronites at 120g anymore. Fresh dings I can understand the tank is a necessity but outside of that no.

[Nev12]

Dps tanking is fine, as long as he/she can handle it, it'll be pretty fine.
Generally, I don't care who will tank it as long as I get to clear the instance.

[Lansow]

you pull aggro?
you tank it!

you piss the healer off because he actually has to watch you healthbar instead of being semi afk?
you die!

you complain about it?
you get votekicked!

don't like it?
stop making people's lives harder or reroll a tank/healer!

simple as that.

This.

[Gnomepowa]

Also, since when is the warlock's mana bar MY responsibility as the healer?

The douchebaggery comes from not only engaging in poor behavior, but defending it. You have not changed my opinion, nor will you.

It's not the mana bar but the HEALTH bar that's YOUR responsibility. I don't know what's so terrible about healing a lock getting its mana back so he can dps shit down for you? If he gets in the middle and hellfires or if an arcane mage gets in the middle of a pack and just does arcane explosion yea its debatable whether you should heal them eventually cuz thats plain dumb. But to refuse a heal out of combat when just a large heal on them would cost you nothing and heal them full that is being a douche. Not trying to change your opinion just explaining mine.
Btw... i understand it when mana would be an issue and you would yourself be forced to sit and drink. But otherwise (and i suspect this is the case)... still douchebaggery

[Rehea]

if i was a healer in a pug with a really good geared dps speeding up the instance because of a slow tank ill be gratefull to heal him

[DarkFerret]

As I said to a previous poster, it is not my responsibility to keep their self-buffs up, or assist them in keeping their mana bar full. If they ask me to do so, I will. If they come in expecting it, they'll be disappointed.

edit: Yes, that could be misinterpreted as me being a dick. It's funny how you'll defend one person expecting something without a word, but attack another asking for precisely the same thing. There's a word for that. Starts with an H. I'll let you find it.

They come in expecting it because that's the design intent. Most locks that would be life tapping also have talents that will return the health they lost. It requires nothing more from the healer than a single HoT once every other trash pack to keep them at 100%. And don't even argue about a paladin not having a HoT, because they can Flash the lock and heal the tank at the same time with Beacon. There's barely even a handful of boss fights where the lock would be in any serious danger by tapping in the middle of the fight. If that's too taxing on you as a healer, you shouldn't be playing one.

A lock life tapping for a design intent DPS increase and a shaman DPS tanking trash packs that didn't even need to be pulled are two separate things.

[MonsieuRoberts]

Control freaks don't like it when they're not first in line.

I'd be fine with you pulling as long as you didn't die and knew what you were doing, and it sounds like you DO know what you're doing.

[Junlee]

Brb, votekicking slow tanks and using dual spec+equipment manager to make the run go 2x as fast.

I won't kick a 3000gs tank for being undergeared and losing aggro every now and then.
I will kick a 5500gs tank who doesn't know how to chain pull.

If DPS is pulling packs before you as a tank, you are running too slow. You do not need to hit a mob until it's dead, you only need to establish threat so that the mob does not have a chance to kill anyone else.

Mob has 60k hp? You only need to do 10k damage to it. You've basically covered 20k damage in threat spread across 4 players, meaning the mob can basically take 80k damage before being pulled unless someone is carrying your group of DPS'ers, in which case, the mob will probably die before it gets more than a hit off.

Not sure what's so hard to understand that trash is trash in WoTLK. Play the game as it is now, adapt when the situation changes.

[Gilgemesh]

In my experience, I'd say its better to let people do their jobs. It is very rude to pull extra mobs if you're not the tank. You are not entitled to a fast run. If you cannot deal with the various ways people do things, then it might pay off for you to stop playing games where you have to deal with other people.

[Isilarya]

Brb, votekicking slow tanks and using dual spec+equipment manager to make the run go 2x as fast.

I won't kick a 3000gs tank for being undergeared and losing aggro every now and then.
I will kick a 5500gs tank who doesn't know how to chain pull.

If DPS is pulling packs before you as a tank, you are running too slow. You do not need to hit a mob until it's dead, you only need to establish threat so that the mob does not have a chance to kill anyone else.

Mob has 60k hp? You only need to do 10k damage to it. You've basically covered 20k damage in threat spread across 4 players, meaning the mob can basically take 80k damage before being pulled unless someone is carrying your group of DPS'ers, in which case, the mob will probably die before it gets more than a hit off.

Not sure what's so hard to understand that trash is trash in WoTLK. Play the game as it is now, adapt when the situation changes.

This

[Opblaaskaas]

All I read was "Bla bla I can't really type english well and I diss Tanks for fun because my E-Peen is huge as hell."

*EDIT* And besides, why don't you try out tanking if you like it that much. Sheesh.

[Deleted]

I play both healing tanking and dps, in fact all tanking classes but druid.

If I play my warrior? Pull at will as long as the healer has mana, takes .5 second to grab aggro and if everything is on cd by some miracle? Well I aoe taunt.

As a paladin? see warrior, though no aoe taunt to save me if I screw up using my abilities here.

As my death knight? Well I prefer doing all the pulling so I have control over what I have ready and what I dont, only single tard taunts and D&D being on cd might severely cripple my ability to get aggro fast (pest -> Blood boil obviously but meh it just doesnt do the trick if you have proper dps.)

As a healer? well if you keep the aggro off me you can be whatever class/spec/role you wish, I'll just heal you and get the dungeon over with faster.

As a dps, it depends, if your pulling means the tank can't grab quick aggro (which they hardly ever can so many terrible players but terrible tanks stand out far far more - worst part is they actually think they are good and thus blame people for overaggroing even if they are litteraly just auto attacking /sigh)

All in all I believe if you aren't terrible or the full group is geared in sub ilevel 213 gear there is no problem with people "ninja" pulling imo.

[Snes]

DPS are more than welcome to run ahead of the tank in Cataclysm when healers will actually need mana and mobs need to be CCed. In PuGs, expect to be kicked for doing that :P

In my experience, I'd say its better to let people do their jobs. It is very rude to pull extra mobs if you're not the tank. You are not entitled to a fast run. If you cannot deal with the various ways people do things, then it might pay off for you to stop playing games where you have to deal with other people.

Also this.

[Weerra]

you are the stereotypic impatient person, you are only allowing this to happen because the run goes faster, only doing it for your own benefit.
screw if the run goes faster, i would rather let it be 5 minutes slower and maybe help a person learning how to tank better then annoy them.
Personal would i rather have a new generation of competent tanks for cataclysm then DPS who STILL think they can tank in cataclysm.

Did I say anything about a honest newbie tank? I spit on crappy dpser who uses his ability to queue as a tank to get a fast invite.
Honest fresh tank who is only starting to gear-up and listens to advice if he's doing something wrong was not mentioned. Him, I will advise and carry if he listens. If he doesn't listen, he gets the treatment.

[ripponesan]

well, all i can say is you need to get a feeling for the people that are with you.
At some point you can rather see how the tank is intending to go through the instance, by just watching his way to the first pull.
There are people that will, after an extra add of 5 groups, by you, which got all killed an none of you died, yell "Whoa now THAT was cool on we go". If you feel you are amongst those, do your normal thing and freakpull the instance.

But if you fear you got some tank that needs sensitive treatment, well, then lean back do some old school one pack pulls, where the tank pulls and live with it.

you cant missionaire those people not beeing your attitude thats what i learned, so either live with it and take your 5 mins more time for the instance or get kicked, probably with some reason like "arrogant no lifer pro gamer dick".