Making mana matter, the worst thing blizzard could have done to the game

[Deleted]

Just did HC DM for the 3rd time and our healer was asking for MB after every single pull. I looked at what he's casting.. Healing Surge and nothing but. I asked him to consider other spells and he responded with "ROFL what else am I supposed to spam then???"... Made all the boss fights extremely fun when he shouts "OOOOM!!!" about 3 seconds into combat, and he DID start from full.

Other shamans have healed that same fight with us and had no problems, they actually cast other spells..

Let's all just chillax and learn to play ok thanks.

Well somehow my healing wave spell just isnt enough and therefor i have to spam Healing Surge a lot to keep people alive which is stressful because of mana issues

[Deleted]

The whole "If you run out of mana then you´re doing something wrong" is that really true? I mean as a healer you have to keep people alive and if they keep taking dmg you have to heal them constantly which will make you go oom at some point.

Healers fault then?

No thats not the healers fault, if dps are taking damage that IS avoidable then thats there fault. Eg. Shadowlancer's in Halls of Origination do a nasty channeled AoE pulse that hits hard, this can be interupted but in my experience people dont, therefore they should move away instaed of standing next to the mob like dumbasses.

Healers job is to keep the group up, heal when damage is unavoidable. Those that take damage when its clearly avoidable, simply let them idiots die, then they may learn how to play.

This is why healers go oom, until it changes then its down to you has a healer to make sure that those idiots get healed last, if they die, there problem.

[Deleted]

Of course not. People have become way way too lenient on "AOE mowing down" in WOTLK which is why they find this old/new way of doing heroic content difficult. Healers are indeed very important, however, in order for the group to overcome the challenge everyone must contribute equally, meaning: the tank should mark the mobs and pull reasonable amount of trash which the other players in the group should CC accordingly (aoe monsters / nasty abilities, etc). If this tactic is executed in a timely fashion, the healer won't have trouble keeping the tank and everyone else alive.

I play a paladin tank and while I haven't tanked in Cataclysm content, I try my best to use all my defensive abilities in order to help the dps and the healer as much as I can, even in TBC/WOTLK dungeon content. Things aren't as easy in leveling greens gear (both for me and the rest of the group) however, it is my role as a tank to keep them safe but also, try to make their job a bit easier. The responsibility should be mutual. The healer should help me alive and the dps, as long as the dps stays out of fires and try to minimize the damage done to themselves (and of course, try to burn the trash/boss as fast as possible).

As you can see, it is a group thing. You can't just pull and aoe everything anymore. People need to embrace their roles and start thinking a little bit.

Why aint every guy like you? Its good to hear that its not always the healers fault if he goes OOM.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Non-infinite mana is one thing, drinking between almost every trash pull is another. Heroics right now are not fun to me, they are tedious. They aren't hard, they are just tedious. They aren't cool, they are just tedious. Maybe if I repeat it, it'll stick. Crowd controlling can be fun, but having mobs with so much health it takes a couple minutes for a trash pull is just stupid, especially with there being so much trash. It's also kind of silly to have CC being emphasized so much when there are a couple classes without any viable forms of CC. I'm a Warlock, so I can CC usually around 2 mobs per pull, sometimes three. Warriors can cleave to break that CC, go Warriors! I like the bosses and some of the events, but they really should make the focus more on them and less on the trash.

[Deleted]

No thats not the healers fault, if dps are taking damage that IS avoidable then thats there fault. Eg. Shadowlancer's in Halls of Origination do a nasty channeled AoE pulse that hits hard, this can be interupted but in my experience people dont, therefore they should move away instaed of standing next to the mob like dumbasses.

Healers job is to keep the group up, heal when damage is unavoidable. Those that take damage when its clearly avoidable, simply let them idiots die, then they may learn how to play.

This is why healers go oom, until it changes then its down to you has a healer to make sure that those idiots get healed last, if they die, there problem.

I just hate that it have come to that point as a healer that you have to let people down if they arent doing their job. I mean the point of being a healer is to keep people alive and if you begin to think "oh screw him" then i dont see why you are a healer anymore

[Doctor Deanster]

Before every healer was welcome because even if you didnt have the greatest heals or greatest utility atleast you could fulfill your roll at 100% for the entire fight

Now that certain classes like the priest who have no magic ability to give huge chunks of there mana back are going to run out of mana mid way through the fight, you just cant risk even bringing one along, atleast when mana was infinite you could still get by, now no raid will take priests or even shamans if you have all the class buffs that you need, this was proven by top guild PARAGON having ZERO gimp healing priests in their raids, only shadow

Making mana matter was just a stupid move, i thought blizz realized by now people dont want to manage another bar on top of everyones hp bar, manage mana, manage buffs, manage other playeres debuffs, manage heals, WHERE DOES IT END BLIZZARD?

why did dpsing become even more face rolling but healing and even TANKing of all things had to get harder, like we really need tanking to be more resistant to players, wtf is blizzard thinking, do they even care what their players want anymore?

Inb4 Trolls talking about QQ at valid points

uh mana has always mattered. if not then why do we wipe when healers run out?

[TrickieTK]

Good healers are actually good now, its not getting 2-3 or 5-7 people without ADD to play whack-a-mole for your raid.

[Abandon]

uh mana has always mattered. if not then why do we wipe when healers run out?

If your healers ran out of mana at any point in Wrath of the Lich King apart from the Lich King fight itself, then they should stop trying to play naked and actually equip gear.

[Torne]

My group has normal blue gear right now and when we do heroics our healer (who is pretty standard/good and knows what to cast) mostly runs out of mana just as the boss goes down.
I call that pretty good balance and I like it, when someone screws up we have to throw an Innervate/hymn etc.

[Deleted]

I just hate that it have come to that point as a healer that you have to let people down if they arent doing their job. I mean the point of being a healer is to keep people alive and if you begin to think "oh screw him" then i dont see why you are a healer anymore

Cataclysm is completely different to wrath, yes as a healer your job is to keep everyone alive. However it is not your job to constantly tell dps and tanks to move out of crap. If damage is avoidable then it should be avoided. Groups have to work together, not just say "let the healer heal through it", thats not an option anymore.

I do wish people would see my point! Good groups dont fail, healer doesn't go oom so quick, all because the dps and tank do there job correctly. If Tanks & Dps don't do there jobs correctly then the healer will go oom and thats common sense 101

[darkwarrior42]

I just hate that it have come to that point as a healer that you have to let people down if they arent doing their job. I mean the point of being a healer is to keep people alive and if you begin to think "oh screw him" then i dont see why you are a healer anymore

It is not the job of the healer to make sure that only healers and tanks have to be competent.

Do you remember seeing all the threads about DPS being by far the easiest role in WotLK? About how it's so stress free, and that you can just afk and do whatever while you go? It's partially because healers were so powerful and bored by the end that many would just heal the DPS through anything. The DPS could ignore 80% of the mechanics in the game by the end, and it didn't matter because healers could take care of it all.

Now, you can't do that without consequences. If the DPS takes too much avoidable damage, something's going to give; either they go down, or you go OOM. The former is less painful for the group, but may still result in a wipe.

Yes, the job of a healer is to keep people alive. But we have to triage; if you have someone incompetent, you have to realize that you may not be able to save him, and instead use your mana on those who can be saved (by virtue of not standing in the fire). One point of this change is that DPS has to be competent not just at their rotation, but at avoiding damage that can be avoided, using damage prevention abilities if they need to, and in general doing more than just tunneling the target.

[Deleted]

It is not the job of the healer to make sure that only healers and tanks have to be competent.

Do you remember seeing all the threads about DPS being by far the easiest role in WotLK? About how it's so stress free, and that you can just afk and do whatever while you go? It's partially because healers were so powerful and bored by the end that many would just heal the DPS through anything. The DPS could ignore 80% of the mechanics in the game by the end, and it didn't matter because healers could take care of it all.

Now, you can't do that without consequences. If the DPS takes too much avoidable damage, something's going to give; either they go down, or you go OOM. The former is less painful for the group, but may still result in a wipe.

Yes, the job of a healer is to keep people alive. But we have to triage; if you have someone incompetent, you have to realize that you may not be able to save him, and instead use your mana on those who can be saved (by virtue of not standing in the fire). One point of this change is that DPS has to be competent not just at their rotation, but at avoiding damage that can be avoided, using damage prevention abilities if they need to, and in general doing more than just tunneling the target.

Well that does make sence. I just think i have to get used to it

[Googolplex]

Before every healer was welcome because even if you didnt have the greatest heals or greatest utility atleast you could fulfill your roll at 100% for the entire fight

Yeah, because Paladins were awesome at healing the AoE damage at Blood Queen and Druids were perfectly fine tank healers at Lich King Herioc - seriously, have you been doing anything but 5-man normals in WotlK ?

Now that certain classes like the priest who have no magic ability to give huge chunks of there mana back are going to run out of mana mid way through the fight, you just cant risk even bringing one along, atleast when mana was infinite you could still get by, now no raid will take priests or even shamans if you have all the class buffs that you need, this was proven by top guild PARAGON having ZERO gimp healing priests in their raids, only shadow

Perhaps you should look at more of the top 10 guilds currently progressing in Cataclysm, oh my, they DO use priests!

Making mana matter was just a stupid move

Yeah, lets give healers a focus bar instead, mana should never matter at all!

do they even care what their players want anymore?

They do, you just don't like what "players want". If you cannot adapt to the new playstyle, you are just a bad healer - end of story.

[La]

I quit healing and started tanking in Cata on my warrior lol...it's been so much fun, I did it because I knew people would be retarded and not know what to cc, and also because I played a priest and heard nothing but bad things about healing. Yeah, sorry I don't have time to be "selective" of who I heal when I'm raid healing. 3 people heal 1 person in a raid, 2/3 people wasted mana, IT HAPPENS, it's stupid.

[TeHypno]

why did dpsing become even more face rolling but healing and even TANKing of all things had to get harder, like we really need tanking to be more resistant to players, wtf is blizzard thinking, do they even care what their players want anymore?

I play a feral dps
DPSing didnt become more faceroll, personally as a dps I have a lot to do, offheals , crowd control, some dispelling, innervates, rebirths... Im specced for shield wall and healing bonus from agility. I saved countless possible wipes.
And yes they do listen to what players want, because what they did in cataclysm is what players wanted. We wanted the game to be more challenging and we got it.

[Abandon]

I quit healing and started tanking in Cata on my warrior lol...it's been so much fun, I did it because I knew people would be retarded and not know what to cc, and also because I played a priest and heard nothing but bad things about healing. Yeah, sorry I don't have time to be "selective" of who I heal when I'm raid healing. 3 people heal 1 person in a raid, 2/3 people wasted mana, IT HAPPENS, it's stupid.

The standard party and raid interface show incoming heals, if you and the other healers in your raid cannot work together or figure out not to heal someone that is already being healed that is your problem, not a problem with the game.

why did dpsing become even more face rolling but healing and even TANKing of all things had to get harder, like we really need tanking to be more resistant to players, wtf is blizzard thinking, do they even care what their players want anymore?

If your DPS are just facerolling, then replace them with people who are not terrible at the game. You will notice that suddenly everyone takes a huge amount less damage because people are interrupting and using CC.

Basically, people need to learn to play, and there is no way around it.

[MrDeadcruel]

Obviously a WotLK player.

this (message to short!)

[jmacphee9]

mana only matters if you arent using it right. we also have 100k+ as dps now so we dont need heals immediately. i think this is a little bit part of blizzards plan.

the mana you are used to was never how blizzard intended it to be.

[GenesisZero]

First off I play Disc priest and I can tell you this is the worst position I've been in ages. Now a few problems I have been having are -

1. My heals aren't Strong enough, If I get feared, Knocked out or any other disable whilst the group is taking damage as well as the tank then I haven't got time, mana nor the power to bring people to a safe level. and judging by scaling its just going to get worse as health pools increase to absurd amounts and heals barely increase, it will become a fairly steep downward spiral.

2. My Mana just doesn't last long enough, I have a grand total of 2 Cooldowns (Archangel Excluded since the nerf made it pointless). One of these makes me channel it leaving me unable to move/heal without wasting the cooldown and the other seem to not be hitting as fast as it should to make it really worth it, will both on long cooldowns.

3. Encounters and Mobs hit entirely to hard. Third boss in Lost City comes to mind. 100%-50% a little taxing but easily manageable. Then the shadow realm phase, that's when the s*** hits the fan. So the tank is taking a hefty beating so Heal won't really cut it, break out the Greater heal to top him off. So the group is taking insane damage from AoE and Prayer of Healing is weak as hell (and the Aegis lasts for all of about a second). One member of the party takes a damage spike, break out the flash heal to top him off. but at the same time the tank is spiking real bad so flash heal him, now by this point I've used all my Cooldowns and im borderline OOM. This is on Heroic btw.

Its not that I don't agree with Blizzards views on healing, I agree with them completely. The problem is that they have gone to far in the other direction. They nerfed mana cooldowns and returns across the board, they made spells cost more mana and then heal less meaning that your using more mana to keep people beyond the brink of death. Till Blizzard really sorts it out im afraid to heal, I really am. There is Manageable and then there is the down-right insane and RNG that most of the fights come with.

[Deleted]

Now that certain classes like the priest who have no magic ability to give huge chunks of there mana back are going to run out of mana mid way through the fight, you just cant risk even bringing one along, atleast when mana was infinite you could still get by, now no raid will take priests or even shamans if you have all the class buffs that you need, this was proven by top guild PARAGON having ZERO gimp healing priests in their raids, only shadow

Just look through the hundreds of kill screens being released right now. It isn't as bad as you think:

Ensidia - Chimaeronkill
Ensidia - Progressthread

For the Horde - Progressthread