Feral Tanks, Tell Me I'm Not the Only One...

[Kagonos]

So I was doing a random heroic Vortex Pinnacle, I have no classes that can CC elementals, so the first half of this place I know is going to be a little rough and kill order is going to be paramount. I start marking everything after explaining the kill order and we start pulling. We get through the first pulls with no deaths, I do notice that I'm taking a fair amount of dmg, but I'm using barkskin and even survival instincts when things get hairy. I mean it's only a 3 minute CD so why NOT use it, right? Anyways, we get to the first boss, Grand Vizier Ertan and I type out a quick explanation for a guy who asked. When I look at the chat log I notice that the healer has said, "Kagonos, you have no tank gear." About 10 seconds later a load screen pops up and I am back in Stormwind.

It's important to note that we did not wipe, there were no deaths and no one was rude or anything. It was a smooth run, but apparently I had no tank gear. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gonos/advanced

Are we going to have this problem going forward, or was this just a really dumb guy who doesn't know how bear tanks work? I even tried to explain it, but they booted me before the pull...

SIDE NOTE: I am definitely concerned over the amount of damage I have been taking, and I'm not sure if it's me taking more damage (bear form=less armor now) or if it's the healers trying to heal like WOTLK trained them, where if everyone's not topped off they are doing something wrong. I do use CDs regularly, and I assure you , I grew up in Kara and TBC, having cleared Kara as the main tank in blues, greens a single epic and back when bears could never become uncrushable, so I definitely know how to tank and how to tank as a bear. I don't mean to say I'm an elite tank or anything, just that I do know how to tank outside of the swipe-spamfest of WOTLK! =)

[scorch109]

Bears still generally use tank trinkets/rings/necks.

[afatgoat]

Sounds like you had a rough group. I'd say it's mostly your group and healer. Bear gear = kitty gear, barring trinkets and the odd ring or neck. I use my cd's on every pack too, don't worry about it. If you're taking more then 1-2 mobs at a time, you need to cc more. Especially in heroics.

Heroic content is tough for most pugs to wrap their heads around.

[ihh]

Bears still generally use tank trinkets/rings/necks.

No, they don't.

[PHILtheTANK]

Haha dude, its not only you. After a wipe on the 3rd boss in lost city, I was told by our healer (who was terrible btw), that I should not be queueing as a tank if I am wearing all dps gear. I asked him what he was talking about, and he replied "you're wearing all agility gear, tanks are supposed to wear strength/stam gear with tank stats on it." Needless to say I was dumbfounded, and tried to explain that there isn't even leather gear with strength or tank stats, and that the only strength pieces u wear are offset pieces (and right now only if your offset agility pieces are poorly itemized) and reforge for dodge. Of course he wouldn't listen, and even another member of the group chimed in sayin g" ya dude that's not tank gear", only to respond 30 seconds later" oh I looked it up, feral tanks wear agility." I guess there are just alot of morons out there.

Also I know where your coming from, I feel like im taking a ton of damage a points, but im not sure if im just not completely geared, if all tanks are like that or if its just feral, because he's the only toon i've hit 85 with.

[ragemaw]

as a feral tank also, I really hope this doesn't happen frequently. I have noticed I take tons of damage, but I don't think that is uniquely a bear issue. there's just lots of damage going out. The healer probably just wasn't used to this new healing mentality and thought that you should be as easy to heal as in heroics at the end of wrath. I say this was just an idiot who doesn't want to do any work as a healer and is hoping for a tank that takes minimal damage (which doesn't exist in cata atm). hope your future runs go better.

[Fenlnir]

I get told that I shouldn't be wearing leather as a tank. Last time I checked, Druids can only wear leather and cloth. I would try getting some more mastery, when my Savage Defense procs, I can go around 10-15 seconds with taking no damage because I can time Pulverize pretty well. Just what I've noticed, and I could be wrong.

[frejborg]

That's rough man! Real rough... Need a way to avoid these kinds of injustices!!! I SAY!!

[masterprtzl]

interesting, I dont play a bear but if this happened in a group I was in I would vote kick the guy who implied ferals dont use agi / leather.

[defmincex13]

well as long as the elementals are melee only u can root them urself hehe

[Deleted]

as a feral tank also, I really hope this doesn't happen frequently. I have noticed I take tons of damage, but I don't think that is uniquely a bear issue. there's just lots of damage going out. The healer probably just wasn't used to this new healing mentality and thought that you should be as easy to heal as in heroics at the end of wrath. I say this was just an idiot who doesn't want to do any work as a healer and is hoping for a tank that takes minimal damage (which doesn't exist in cata atm). hope your future runs go better.

^^This.

You can use any CC on elementals. Doesn't have to be shaman Bind Elemental or warlocks in your group.

Your gear looks comparable to other druid tanks. You could do with a bit more stam, working up to 110k mark, or some on-use stam trinkets, but compared to the difference of having CC, your dps avoiding avoidable damage and keeping up your CDs, a bit more stam isn't going to make much of a difference except possibly at the hardest bosses.

Get a bit more gear, get a belt buckle and just keep plugging away. Are druid bracers at 85 hard to come by?

[Wehrwolf]

No, they don't.

I'm inclined to agree. The "tank" trinks/rings/necks don't impress me much, especially when stacking agi or reforging dodge if necessary can mitigate NOT using those tank specific pieces.

I'm a tank by necessity (queue times are ridiculous as a kitty) and I feel the same as the OP -- seems like I take way too much damage. But I haven't had anyone complain (yet).

[Monsterbaby]

I see a lot of tanks, who don't use many of their abilities, like Demo roar, barkskin. And they only use their feral regen and survival in the very last minute, instead of using survival as many times as possible, when reaching lower health, but far away from the lowest. You kinda have to work with the healers, and not just tag along.

I know many tanks are doing their job really good, but it is indeed a two way. Some healers also need to grow some skill, especially in cataclysm. Now you can't just faceroll on the keyboard anymore, and get out of a dungeon with no one taking more than half their health in damage.

All in all, a good group, is where a tank knows how to play, knows how to use the abilities. A healer knows how to be one step ahead all the time, and keeping the tank alive. The dps should not overaggro, CC whenever it gets critical and USE FIRST AID!

In case people have not noticed, first aid has been kind of "reintroduced" to wow. Now it actually heals a lot, compared to previously, where it was useless, if you had your own crappy healing spells, even as a feral druid. Now, I use First Aid, even as moonkin.

[Lackluster]

Bears still generally use tank trinkets/rings/necks.

Not quite, let's compare Darkhowl Amulet to Mouth of the Earth for example.

The "tank" necklace with strength will give 114 strength and 149 dodge vs. 149 agility, 24 expertise and 100 hit on the "dps" necklace.
114 strength will give the same Attack Power as 114 agility, nothing more.
149 dodge will give roughly the same amount of avoidance as 149 agility.

So what you gain by using the "dps" necklace is the attack power from 35 agility, the crit from 149 agility, 24 expertise rating and 100 hit rating (which you can reforge to dodge or mastery if you wish).
You'd be an idiot to use strength-itemized tank items in your neck/cloak/ring slots as a bear tank and you should laugh at anyone telling you otherwise.

[Slavko]

Bears still generally use tank trinkets/rings/necks.

No, they don't.

Actually, they do. In fact you can sometimes even wear a tanking cloak (dodge/whatever tanking stat). As long as an item doesn't have block or parry its fair game for a bear.

Note: Maybe you should explain your criticism in a way that is helpful to adjusting a problem.

[pleaserelax]

Actually, they do. In fact you can sometimes even wear a tanking cloak (dodge/whatever tanking stat). As long as an item doesn't have block or parry its fair game for a bear.

Note: Maybe you should explain your criticism in a way that is helpful to adjusting a problem.

It was explained at the same time as your post, not that it needed to be as there are plenty of resources on how to gear properly.

[Lackluster]

Actually, they do. In fact you can sometimes even wear a tanking cloak (dodge/whatever tanking stat). As long as an item doesn't have block or parry its fair game for a bear.

Note: Maybe you should explain your criticism in a way that is helpful to adjusting a problem.

As you can see from my example, 1 point of agility gives the same benefits to a bear as 1 strength, 1 dodge and 1 crit, all at the same time.
Any smart bear will be wearing agility gear unless he's got strength-based gear that is many itemlevels higher.

[Slavko]

As you can see from my example, 1 point of agility gives the same benefits to a bear as 1 strength, 1 dodge and 1 crit, all at the same time.
Any smart bear will be wearing agility gear unless he's got strength-based gear that is many itemlevels higher.

Okay, so let me clarify even more... Yes Agi > Str and... Yes Agi gives dodge, BUT any "tanking gear" i.e. gear with str+stam that a warrior,pally,dk uses has way more stam than any agi gear (plate class usually have more stam). So using a "tanking" trinket/neck/cloak/ring is fine if you're buffing for HP and not avoidance.

Example: What bear tank used the Ashen Verdict dps ring with agi over the one with str+stam that also gave a tanking proc?

[PHILtheTANK]

meh you could wear either tank off pieces, or agility offpieces, but it depends on the secondary stats more. I.e. id wear a tank ring with dodge/mastery over an agility ring with haste/crit. Basically you should just be reforging all of ur haste into dodge right now, and getting as much crit and mastery as possible, without reforging to it.

[masterprtzl]

Okay, so let me clarify even more... Yes Agi > Str and... Yes Agi gives dodge, BUT any "tanking gear" i.e. gear with str+stam that a warrior,pally,dk uses has way more stam than any agi gear (plate class usually have more stam). So using a "tanking" trinket/neck/clock/ring is fine if you're buffing for HP and not avoidance.

Example: What be tank used the Ashen Verdict dps ring with agi over the one with str+stam that also gave a tanking proc?

Umm pretty sure gear right now gives all about the same stam, especially in rings / off set pieces.