Spirit as Elemental

[DonSnorrlione]

So, I wanted to ask the shaman base of MMO-champion what their view of spirit gear for ele shamans is.

Last night, I got a epic belt off of Conclaive of winds (or how ever you spell it) that had Stam, int, spirit and Mastery. We use a DKP system, so we started bidding and after a few bids, one of our resto shamans whispers me and tells me to pass on the item for him, because he needed the spirit. Mind you he had almost doubled my DKP, so he could of easily won it, but chose not to, which means to me that he didn't want it that badly.

Later that night I got indirectly called a "loot whore" because I didn't pass on the item to him and got flamed by a few of our healers and that "Just cuz it gives you hit is a convenience".

So, I wanted to know, are people really stuck in wrath mentality about that still? Do people still look at spirit as healer only stat?

[Deleted]

Tell him this: "If you actually wanted an item with mastery and spirit over an elemental shaman, you should reconsider if playing WoW is for your."

[Brodi]

The spirit to hit talents are designed for the sole purpose of Elemental and Restoration (and similar classes) being able to share gear. While I don't know for sure as I've yet to start raiding, I'm pretty sure all Caster Mail is going to have Spirit instead of Hit, and since Hit is the biggest DPS increase until capped, I'm gonna say you were in the right.

[kucerakov]

Uh those people are morons. After hit cap, mastery is our #1 stat on an ele shaman.

[Volitar]

Uh those people are morons. After hit cap, mastery is our #1 stat on an ele shaman.

Wrong very wrong don't post things like this if you don't know what you are talking about

Hit/Spirit to cap>int>haste>mastery>crit>hit/spirit after cap


Also hate to be mean but your guilds healer core are all really dumb

[rabbimojo]

Here's a link to a Wowhead search for PvE caster mail which has no spirit and isn't a set item:
http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.3?fil...;crv=0:0:0:0:0

Now, notably there is a leatherworking belt on there, so you had options. Maybe that means you should have passed. Depends on your guild.
The point of that link is that spirit is an elem stat no matter how you look at it.

---------- Post added 2010-12-29 at 09:49 AM ----------

Wrong very wrong don't post things like this if you don't know what you are talking about

Hit/Spirit to cap>int>haste>mastery>crit>hit/spirit after cap[...]

Well, if we're charitable, it isn't "very wrong" so much as just "wrong". I think it's reasonable to assume he was leaving int out, since you aren't trading ratings for int except in gemming/chanting. That just leaves him saying mastery > haste, which at least according to EJ isn't right. I'm not sure at what point mastery overtakes haste, though, so I can't comment on whether it's universally off or just off for most normal gearing points. :P

[Endus]

Now, notably there is a leatherworking belt on there, so you had options. Maybe that means you should have passed. Depends on your guild.

Any guild that expects you to pass on gear when they have an impartial gear assignment system like DKP already is not a guild you want to be a part of. The only reason to do so is to try and game the system and get gear unfairly. Either this healer was being a bully and you should report it to the guildmaster, or they're secretly trying to run a Loot Council to favor their friends unfairly and are trying to use a DKP front-end to hide it.

[Bazgab]

Here's a link to a Wowhead search for PvE caster mail which has no spirit and isn't a set item:
http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.3?fil...;crv=0:0:0:0:0

Now, notably there is a leatherworking belt on there, so you had options. Maybe that means you should have passed. Depends on your guild.
The point of that link is that spirit is an elem stat no matter how you look at it.

The belt that the OP referred to is superior to the leatherworking belt as that belt has crit on it and crit is elementals lowest ranked secondary stat.

[Deleted]

I can somewhat understand them wanting you to pass on it if it was a ring/necklace/trinket, as there are +hit options for those. But there are no/very few Mail items with hit, so you are forced to go with Spirit.

[rabbimojo]

Any guild that expects you to pass on gear when they have an impartial gear assignment system like DKP already is not a guild you want to be a part of. The only reason to do so is to try and game the system and get gear unfairly. Either this healer was being a bully and you should report it to the guildmaster, or they're secretly trying to run a Loot Council to favor their friends unfairly and are trying to use a DKP front-end to hide it.

I generally agree, and I think what the OP described was ridiculous. I'm just saying, there are scenarios where it works differently. I've been in DKP guilds that lean a bit towards a "obvious upgrade"-style loot council. e.g., the goal is to use loot optimally. DKP is an attempt to leverage free market-esque dynamics to do so, but it's even better if tempered by players paying attention to each others' gearing.

So, I put in a disclaimer that readers should consider that, if that's how the reader's guild works. I'm assuming it isn't the case for the OP, since he's here complaining, but I put it there anyways. :P

---------- Post added 2010-12-29 at 10:11 AM ----------

The belt that the OP referred to is superior to the leatherworking belt as that belt has crit on it and crit is elementals lowest ranked secondary stat.

Well, yes, but either way the reforge is going to haste. I was just mentioning the belt so that, if for some reason the OP decided to leverage my link to demonstrate to guildies that spirit is without a doubt a normal elem DPS stat, he would take it into account and fashion the argument as needed. It's almost always a good idea to attack your own argument before you let a tough crowd do it. :P

[Daetur]

I'm sorry, but lol, riiiight, Hit rating and mastery sure aren't good dps stats. /sarcasm off


This is just like the argument that hit/expertise+mastery plate gear is/is not for tank/plate dps.

Newsflash, it's for both.

[Aviators]

Mastery is terrible for resto shamans

If anything he should wait for the spirit/haste/crit drop

[Rosh]

Uh those people are morons. After hit cap, mastery is our #1 stat on an ele shaman.

Ehm. infact Mastery is our #2 stat. not #1. our Main stat if not counting INT would Be Haste.

Hit untill capped > INT > Haste > mastery > crit.

As endus said, try reporting it to your guildmaster, if he doesent know better, same with the officers i dont see that guild being worth raiding with.
You could simply reforge away mastery and into haste making that belt equally good for elemental shamans.
We're mostly actually going for the exact same thing when it comes to stats. And as i've been checking around theres simply not much loot to chose from between resto/elemental. its pretty much the same items for both speccs.
But mastery is something thats MORE valuable for elemental shamans ATM since we actually do benefit more from it.

[Jahoota]

Spirit is mana regeneration for healers and it's Hit for DPS. You would reforge out of the Spirit (assuming you are hit capped) and he would reforge out of Mastery. These baddies are going to be troublesome for your raiding future. You need to make sure that your guild knows that the only option you have as an Elemental Shaman is to roll on Spirit Mail. That gear is as much yours as it is his.

I would be extremely concerned that your guildies don't know this. This information should have been learned in Cata 101. Literally, everyone should have know about the new gear rules months before Cataclysm launched. If your guild is going to baddie that what else are they going to baddie? Do they enjoy standing in fire/whirlwind/void/goo? Do they INT stack their Warriors? I suggest taking your talents elsewhere.

[Revelations]

Wrong very wrong don't post things like this if you don't know what you are talking about
haste>mastery

our #2 stat. not #1.

We don't know that yet.
Are they close? Yes. Are we sure Haste is better than Mastery? No.
____

On the direct topic: That is an elemental belt. As mastery is Restoration's worst stat, you should fire your healer(s) and go find people that know what they're doing.

Tell him this: "If you actually wanted an item with mastery and spirit over an elemental shaman, you should reconsider if playing WoW is for your."

[FrozenFlames]

So, I wanted to ask the shaman base of MMO-champion what their view of spirit gear for ele shamans is.

Last night, I got a epic belt off of Conclaive of winds (or how ever you spell it) that had Stam, int, spirit and Mastery. We use a DKP system, so we started bidding and after a few bids, one of our resto shamans whispers me and tells me to pass on the item for him, because he needed the spirit. Mind you he had almost doubled my DKP, so he could of easily won it, but chose not to, which means to me that he didn't want it that badly.

Later that night I got indirectly called a "loot whore" because I didn't pass on the item to him and got flamed by a few of our healers and that "Just cuz it gives you hit is a convenience".

So, I wanted to know, are people really stuck in wrath mentality about that still? Do people still look at spirit as healer only stat?

I have no clue about what are good stats for ele shamans and resto shamans even though I know spirit gives hit.
But if they act like you said they did, I would go find myself a new guild.
And even if it was better for the Resto sham (I dont know), if you spent your dkp on it and its not ''totally'' off (like needing Agi as Ele), you can't be called a lootwhore.
I mean, if your a lootwhore, your DKP system is f***ed.

[Deleted]

as spirit is our hit, and hit is our most important stat until cap, arguably you need the piece more than healers. its more complex when your sorting out guild stuff, but the fact that for druids priests and shammies, spirit = hit is NOT some coincidence. the game designers have made it this way on purpose. tell them so stop whining. ive had it once in randoms now, and i just state, 'for me spirit = hit, thus legitimate roll.' notice how gearing a shammy was a pain in the ass before? the conversion is there to allieviate that (so is reforging partly). youll have to sort it with the guild, whether they want theyre healers to have priority, but saying that its just a ''convenience'' is bs.

[Rosh]

We don't know that yet.
Are they close? Yes. Are we sure Haste is better than Mastery? No.
.

Actually. yes. If you have a look at elitist jerks you can see spreadsheets and discussions about it.Only point mastery were better was in patch 4.0.1.

Haste value is better than having overload proccs at this stage. Later on? Who knows. But ATM with the current gear Haste > Mastery.

[bigjenk]

We don't know that yet.
Are they close? Yes. Are we sure Haste is better than Mastery? No.
____

On the direct topic: That is an elemental belt. As mastery is Restoration's worst stat, you should fire your healer(s) and go find people that know what they're doing.

Yes at pretty much every conceivable gear level this tier haste is a fair amount better than mastery for ele. Mastery though is resto's worst stat so it is itemized better for ele and good luck with off peices not having spirit on it, i suppose you could sit on getting a haste/mastery belt but good luck with the rng on that.

There are basically 3 things an ele looks for in gear.

Does it have higher int levels? since int is sooo much better than any other stat an ilvl increase is surely an upgrade unless it is horribly itemized and you are way over hit cap.

Does it have haste?

Does it not have crit?

If it meets these req it is a bis ele peice most likely, if not then you wowhead to try and find a peice with these stats and if there is nothing better it is still gonna be bis.

[Tyrlite]

We don't know that yet.

I have seen on EJ that Haste is infact greater than Mastery (would link but can't due to being a newish poster), I believe Binkenstien (spellcheck) once explained it as haste will always be there on every spell we cast as apposed to relying on Mastery which is completely RNG, and having more haste would theoretically allow for more mastery procs... Don't quote me though I am no theorycrafter....