Should Unholy be 2H Only?

[Imnick]

It has always seemed strange to me, Blizzard's design theory for the Death Knight trees.
We have a tank tree and then two DPS trees, this is fine because it would be silly to have healing Death Knights.
One tree uses two handed weapons, one uses dual wielding... or two handed weapons.
This is where my issue lies.

Why is it that the frost tree gives the player a choice about which weapon to use, and why doesn't unholy have the same choice?
What if I want both a permanent ghoul and two weapons, is that such a bad thing?
Blizzard's stated intent is that unholy remain a 2 hander-wielding class. That's fine I suppose, but why then not force Frost players to dual wield?
It just seems odd to me to give one spec a choice and not the other, it would be much cleaner to either let them either both choose what kind of weapon style they want or make Frost a dedicated dual wield tree and Unholy a two handed tree.
Or just remove dual wielding from Death Knights altogether!

Personally I think Unholy is far more fun to play than Frost and I like having a permanent ghoul pet, but I also think that dual wielding is much cooler than having a single weapon.
A lot of people think looks are irrelevant and DPS is all that's important, I suppose that's also true in a way but if I had the option to dual wield with a ghoul for only a minor reduction in damage without Blizzard shouting at me and changing my talents then I would be very happy.
What do you think?

[Psyy]

Well, from a DPS point of view Frost is only viable as Dual Wield at the moment, as 2H trails by roughly 10%, which is just a hell of a lot.

[Direknyte]

I am going to say yes. If you want to DW, go frost. If you want to use a 2H, go UH. If you want to tank, use Blood. It's that simple.

[Strakha]

I would not mind if they support both 2H and DW for both trees, but it is just a pain in the ass so they will probably not do that.

Even 2h Frost is something they probably already regret.

[DismalNether]

I personally agree with this, they should be able to choose which weapons they want but I guess it goes against blizzards intent. It's basically like what they did to enhance shamans removing their ability to do any sort of viable dps with 2handers because in their design enhance shammies were meant to dual wield.

[Deleted]

I think the better question would be "Should Frost have ever been DW and 2H?". If I recall correctly 2H was wedged into frost to humour those people who complained about wanting to use a 2H weapon without being required to control a ghoul which is all well and good until it raises false expectations about other talent trees. In this case it's expected by some that because frost allows both DW and 2H then so should unholy even tho unholy has always been stated to be a 2H spec and nothing more.

[Brince]

2H frost is not competitive so it won't be used by raiding ppl.
That means if you wanna dw go frost, if you like 2h go unholy.
Balacing both trees to support both playstiles it's a huge pain, that's the reason blood became a tank tree in the first place.

[killabee]

2H Frost is indeed used by many, including myself. Some prefer the play style of 2H and Frost. My personal experience after running countless tests is that 2H Unholy > 2H Frost > DW Frost. Another personal experience is that in 346 blues with a few epics, Haste is more valuable to Crit for DW Frost. All the above is in direct contradiction to EJ. However, it works for me and like it.

As in regards to whether Unholy should be 2H only, I'd like to see all 4 options being viable for DPS DKs.

[Exclusive]

They'll do a much better job keeping things balanced when they keep Unholy 2H.
I mean, else you'll go back to the way it used to be. People will start to want to DW tank again, so they have to rebalance that, and then people want to tank in all specs again, so they have to rebalance that, people want to be DW Blood DPS, etc, etc. If they start to actually support this, where will the end be? You'd need like 12 different supported specs (DPS and tank for each of the 3 trees and all viable in 2H and DW)
Too many choices really aren't good, they're the opposite.
If DW UH is viable or anything, sure I couldn't care less, but only as long as they don't feel like they need to change things to actually "officially" support it

[kerwyn]

2H Frost is indeed used by many, including myself. Some prefer the play style of 2H and Frost. My personal experience after running countless tests is that 2H Unholy > 2H Frost > DW Frost. Another personal experience is that in 346 blues with a few epics, Haste is more valuable to Crit for DW Frost. All the above is in direct contradiction to EJ. However, it works for me and like it.

As in regards to whether Unholy should be 2H only, I'd like to see all 4 options being viable for DPS DKs.

Define "countless tests," because from simulations at all gear levels DW frost is outperforming 2h frost and roughly on par with 2h unholy.

[Avatar Killer]

2H frost is not competitive so it won't be used by raiding ppl.
That means if you wanna dw go frost, if you like 2h go unholy.
Balacing both trees to support both playstiles it's a huge pain, that's the reason blood became a tank tree in the first place.

well at the moment people are also claiming that DW UH is also the supreme spec for high end raiding gear. there hasn't been any proof but its what people are saying atm. but currently its all about play style apparently. Just like people DW tanking too... blizzard will fix it if they see fit.

[Foomy]

yes please, makes more sense to me imo.

[Leetbeartank]

well at the moment people are also claiming that DW UH is also the supreme spec for high end raiding gear. there hasn't been any proof but its what people are saying atm. but currently its all about play style apparently. Just like people DW tanking too... blizzard will fix it if they see fit.

According to Consider, which is a pretty credible source as far as WoW is concerned, Dual Wield Unholy is on top once you get into heroic raid gear. Everything except two handed Frost is within 2% of each other... So it doesn't really matter. As long as you're not playing two handed Frost, you're fine.

[Papalenin]

Imo, DW should be a frost talent, thus not allowing Tanks or Unholy DPS to DW at all

Blood = 2H tank
Frost = DW DPS
Unholy = 2H DPS

That model just makes sense. Why people even want to DW as a DK is beyond me though.

[Elrid]

By design I am almost 100% sure Blizz intended for Frost to be DW and UH to be 2H. Remember the DW UH spec DKs used to destroy with back in Naxx/Ulduar days? They got rid of that for a reason: It wasn't intended.

[Ssith]

DKs should not have been given the ability to DW at all, that's where the root issue lies. if you want to DW, make a warrior or a rogue.

[Needonboots]

well at the moment people are also claiming that DW UH is also the supreme spec for high end raiding gear. there hasn't been any proof but its what people are saying atm. but currently its all about play style apparently. Just like people DW tanking too... blizzard will fix it if they see fit.

You're right, the simulation programs that have proven correct time and again (with minor slipups granted) are definately less evidence than some guy saying "I DID THIS SO ITS RIGHT EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG" (not you, a poster not to ofar above you)

[Sankiros]

Certain specs have certain ways to play. And ultimately Blizz decides, not much we can do about it. With some of their decision they fuck some people over. In this case the people who wanna do DW UH. Personally i would love it to be so you could do DW UH and DW frost. But it doesn't seem like that is what blizz have in mind. And it does make sense after all. Blood = tank, Frost = DW DPS and Unholy = 2hander DPS. Splits it up nicely and makes an even bigger distinction between the trees. So the idea is good in theory, but as always there are speedbumps. What about those who love UH and DW at the same time? They can do it, but with a significantly reduced dps. And then it comes down to your choice (and your guilds). Do you want to sacrifice a chunk of dps to be able to play DW UH? If yes, then go for it. Play as good as you can, and it can't hurt. Ultimately you should chose the playstyle you like, and not the one that you are dictated to use because ElitistJerks says so. Yes you will get a buttload of shit in your head for doing it. But if you are enjoying yourself then why give a fuck? I will say one thing though: In progression you should do the best with your class and abilities. And yes, that means speccing the right specc and playing the right way compared to what suits your guild the best.

[Jon]

2H Frost is indeed used by many, including myself. Some prefer the play style of 2H and Frost. My personal experience after running countless tests is that 2H Unholy > 2H Frost > DW Frost.

Either your 2H weapon is better, or you're doing something wrong... DW Frost is superior to 2H Frost.

[Sal]

I'd enjoy the option to be able to pick which type of weapon I wanted without much of a penalty, but, alas, it isn't what Blizzard "wants." Ugh. If I want to use two weapons as Unholy, so what? What's the big deal?