Fire-mage Problems, stuck in a rut.

[Deleted]

Hello to the mmo-champ mage members, to get right to business i've been experiencing some drastic problems as fire since cata release. Mostly the problem seems to be the hot streak proc and general crits off the nuke rotation but along side a filler rotation also my dps dips extremely low. Now i understand that mages now are based on an extremely flawed "RNG" system or just plain and simple kissing your own behind wishing to the high and mighty for the luck to do what every other class seems to without the same issues.

Now to the point of this post, I was in a heroic today with a severly undergeared fire-mage, 333 iLvL and some 346 items also but out dps'd me on boss fights with sometimes a staggering 3-4k.. now i put this down to the really bad "RNG" system but can this really be it? if so whats the point in me gearing my mage at all? Now i'm no amateur when it comes to raiding with my mage been doing it since TBC but still the higher my gear becomes the lower my dps generally becomes.

My current gear is in the below link
eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/bláckicé/advanced
(And just before the forums erupt with L2P and such, I'm enchanting the MH with Power Torrent within the next day or so, hurricane will be on it until then)

Now can someone please just help me out here? am I smoking something or are many others experiencing the "frustrating" and stupid problems I am encountering? Rotations I use are perfectly chained and no downtime between casts or DoT uptimes along side i do use flasks and also 90int buff foods. But on some boss fights i cannot peak over 11k dps.. even with my gear I cannot peak over 20k DPS on halfus.. now for the argument of "L2P" as i stated above im chaining perfectly and standard nuke (scorch, LB, FB + FB/PYRO on proc nuke, only replenishing CM when it drops. And using the Scorch-weave rotation for mana conservation along side nuke which i use scorch, LB, scorch, scorch FB, scorch, scorch, FB, FB+PYRO on procs) I'm also using combustion everytime it's off CD and with pyro, ignite and LB also BW applied and also FO everytime its off CD with MI... along side using mana gems to stagger with evo so i can stay in nuke rotation nearly all the fight and scorch-weaving for longer burns..

Now that said can anyone see a flaw in my gear, rotation or stats in general? Because to put it bluntly I'm stumped. I've spent 12+ hours on target dummys and reforging, regeming and spec's and I'm at a dead-end.

All help and comments are welcome.
Blackice

[Deleted]

1.You're slightly below hitcap. This can be fixed by enchanting your gloves with hit, seems to be enough to get you capped.
2. Your haste is pretty high imo, you only need 514 with 3/3 NW and 5% raid haste.
3. I'm in about the same level of gear of you, and I never have to weave in scorches anymore with proper evocation/mana gem management.
4. It's helpful to get a tracker for both of your trinkets, and chain combustion when both or atleast 1 of your trinkets proc'd and you got a good ignite/pyro up.

Other than that, I don't really know too much of your playstyle, how you react to situations, etc.. but personally I managed to do a sustained 15k single target DPS or so, in about the same level of gear as you, so try to aim for something like that and just keep practicing I guess.

[jahensle]

you actually don't need any added haste with the Pyro bug + totem or SP + 3/3 talent (total of 13%). Figure out how to get rid of a lot of that haste. Mastery is better then haste.

drop the 2/2 in Pyro and replace it with 1/2 and put the extra point into Arcane concetration. Pyro is currently bugged so if you only put 1 point in it, it gives you a static 5 percent haste. This allows you to drop haste from your gear and replace it with crit/mastery,

5 % pyro (1 out of 2 in talent points)
5 % totem haste or shadow priest
3 % from talents (or you could use 2 points and have a tiny tiny bit of haste on your gear)

This should help you a little, although I have no idea how you only do 11k. Part of me thinks you are trolling.

---------- Post added 2011-01-09 at 10:45 AM ----------

also, get 65 master or 28 sp to gloves.

[Deleted]

you actually don't need any added haste with the Pyro bug + totem or SP + 3/3 talent (total of 13%). Figure out how to get rid of a lot of that haste. Mastery is better then haste.

drop the 2/2 in Pyro and replace it with 1/2 and put the extra point into Arcane concetration. Pyro is currently bugged so if you only put 1 point in it, it gives you a static 5 percent haste. This allows you to drop haste from your gear and replace it with crit/mastery,

5 % pyro (1 out of 2 in talent points)
5 % totem haste or shadow priest
3 % from talents (or you could use 2 points and have a tiny tiny bit of haste on your gear)

This should help you a little, although I have no idea how you only do 11k. Part of me thinks you are trolling.

---------- Post added 2011-01-09 at 10:45 AM ----------

also, get 65 master or 28 sp to gloves.

Thank you for the advice, but i assure you I'm far from trolling. Just as i stated above I'm baffeled on whats going on.. but thanks for the advice.

[jahensle]

no problem mate, this forum has been a great help for me as well.

[Joobieo]

The haste bug is still working?

[Nah]

The haste bug is still working?

Amazingly, yes. I really expected it to get changed in the last round of hotfixes, especially with how quickly word of it spread, but my cast speed has remained the same so far.

[Skarrd]

Amazingly, yes. I really expected it to get changed in the last round of hotfixes, especially with how quickly word of it spread, but my cast speed has remained the same so far.

I'm sure it's a problem with coding and they can't figure out how to fix it without breaking it completely.

[Lektro]

I wouldn't go as far as saying mages are totally bad but I do think the spec is flawed. I generally p ull 14-16k dps on most raid bosses atm but the fluctuation of in my dps can be frustrating and its all because of HS procs.

Right now fire mage dps is very much dependent on how many HS procs you get and when you get them. obviously 10 procs is better than 5 and if 8 of those happened with Cd's and trinkets active than thats even better. I've had fightrs where I see almost 20k because I just kept procing HS while both of my trinkets were active. I Have also had fights were I couldn't buy a HS if my life depended upon it.

My theory is it seems that the hot streak (3rd tier talent) doesn't not work when you have points in improved HS (4th tier talent). I haven't done a whole lot of formal testing but from my experience it seems that the only time I get an HS proc with when I have 2 crits in a row. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that 3rd tier HS was supposed to randomly proc HS's also just like missile barrage in order to offset the fact that with our low crit ratings getting 2 crits in a row is a lot less likely.

I would like to see something done to improve the consistency of HS procs so that I don't get 5 one fight, and 26 the next.

[Ryma]

I have had the same problem with my mage. The damage and DPS has not been consistant. I will pull 15k DPS on one fight, however, only pull 9K on the next boss. More times, I will have low DPS than high DPS. I went the entire BH fight with only two HS last week. I just recently switched to frost to try and obtain some consistancy, havn't had a good test run yet though to provide some statistics.

[-Atlass-]

My theory is it seems that the hot streak (3rd tier talent) doesn't not work when you have points in improved HS (4th tier talent). I haven't done a whole lot of formal testing but from my experience it seems that the only time I get an HS proc with when I have 2 crits in a row. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that 3rd tier HS was supposed to randomly proc HS's also just like missile barrage in order to offset the fact that with our low crit ratings getting 2 crits in a row is a lot less likely.

Haven't seen one HS proc without 2 consecutive crits since the xpac. My only guess is what you said, maybe T3 HS is disabled when spec'd into T4. If that's the case though, is the proc chance higher with low lvls of crit to justify skipping T4 HS since it is such a fluctuating RNG and the T3 would (at my best guess) be a rather flatline %?

[Sindy]

I have had the same problem with my mage. The damage and DPS has not been consistant. I will pull 15k DPS on (Halfus) one fight, however, only pull 9K on the next boss (Conclave). More times, I will have low DPS than high DPS. I went the entire BH fight with only two HS last week. I just recently switched to frost to try and obtain some consistancy, havn't had a good test run yet though to provide some statistics.

Every fight is different, you cannot compare dps on 2 different bosses. An entire 5 minute fight without HS means you need more crit. Sorry.

[Shawaam]

How is your computer? Low FPS might be the issue here.

[Mesiya]

Can't see the problem, your gear is good enough to play fire competitevly, glyphs,enchants and gems are good, spec is good, can't see the problem. A undergeared mage that is also fire should not be able to beat you on dps unless you are slacking or lagging a lot. Fire scales very well with gear so it shouldn't be possible for a lower geared fire mage to beat a better geared one, getting lucky with a couple of procs shouldn't make that big of a difference as you said. The only 2 explanations are that you were slacking or that you are lagging, lag can screw you over big time!

[Squeaky688]

Hotstreak isnt bugged like some are saying its working as intended.

Pretty much you need both cause they Balance each other out, T3 makes it that you get them at low crit %'s and T4 makes it so that you dont get to many at higher crit %'s.

Pretty much T3 procs less the closer you get to 40% crit and then stops and T4 procs less the farther you are under 40% and more the higher over 40% you are.

[Gerolux]

Im curious why he didnt pick up impact, seems like a no brainer to help with aoe damage.

[Deleted]

Can't see the problem, your gear is good enough to play fire competitevly, glyphs,enchants and gems are good, spec is good, can't see the problem. A undergeared mage that is also fire should not be able to beat you on dps unless you are slacking or lagging a lot. Fire scales very well with gear so it shouldn't be possible for a lower geared fire mage to beat a better geared one, getting lucky with a couple of procs shouldn't make that big of a difference as you said. The only 2 explanations are that you were slacking or that you are lagging, lag can screw you over big time!

I'd love for it to be due to me slacking but unfortunatly it wasn't. However since i've reforged and switch around a few enchants my dps has jumped to 13-14k sustained.. but for my gear it still seems extremly low.. i know i should be doing 16-17k so its rather frustrating as i know can't push more out of my class atm due to the flawed RNG system.

How is your computer? Low FPS might be the issue here.

I'm running a GeForce GTX 480 Fermi with 6gb of ram, so im not experiencing LOW FPS or lag m8.

Im curious why he didnt pick up impact, seems like a no brainer to help with aoe damage.

The main reason i hav'nt spec'd AOE on that spec is i change specs due to the fights im going to do depending on raid setup to be more dynamic.. so the "no impact" spec is specifically for no add's and pure nuke on single target.


But thanks for the input and advice guys/girls.

[spiny]

I'm sure it's a problem with coding and they can't figure out how to fix it without breaking it completely.

Ok, i know this sounds paranoid but I think its intentional. It could be a clever way to test out an intended talent change (5% haste for 1st point, 5% haste proc for 2nd) without having to go through the formality of a class change (and subsequent forum fallout).

I know, *tinfoil hat* :P

[Zanza801]

4. It's helpful to get a tracker for both of your trinkets, and chain combustion when both or atleast 1 of your trinkets proc'd and you got a good ignite/pyro up.

My understanding of Combustion, would having a trinket proc or using a trinket before casting Combustion won't due anything since the damage is based off the Dots that are already applied to the target. Am I wrong about this?

Also I am having dps issues as well. im barely breaking double digits i've done the research on the class on varoius forums and have tried to apply it. I feel like im getting the rotation right. Flame Orb, Living Bomb, Fireball/Scorch when moving, combustion when I have Ignite, Pyro dot, Living bomb and Critical mass up.

I know about the 1/2 pyro i plan to move that (would that really make that big of a difference though)

and i aslo know my trinkets are terrible.

cant post my armory link due to not enough posts but im a gnome mage on Kalecgos named Gsix


I don't seem to have many mana Issues as i've gotten pretty good at my Management but im Desperate to know what im not seeing that others might

[Heilige]

Haven't seen one HS proc without 2 consecutive crits since the xpac. My only guess is what you said, maybe T3 HS is disabled when spec'd into T4. If that's the case though, is the proc chance higher with low lvls of crit to justify skipping T4 HS since it is such a fluctuating RNG and the T3 would (at my best guess) be a rather flatline %?

Tier 3 Hot Streak has always scaled inversely with your crit rating. As your crit raises your chance to proc a HS declines, and eventually T3 Hot Streak gives no benefit above ~45% crit.

The different tiers of Hot Streak will cross over at ~34% crit, prior to that you'll see the vast majority of your crits come from single crit T3 procs, after that you'll see more and more coming crom double crits, until you hit 45% and it's solely from T4.