Top 30 Bosses that stayed unkilled the longest.

[kerwyn]

Nothing to do with it. Ouro required execution like no other encounter the game had seen at the encounters time of current content.

A good example of why your point is very invalid is the Blessing of Kings advantage alliance raiders had; back then, the average cloth wearer had about 700hp less health than Ouro's Sand Blast did -- with Blessing of Kings, their health would exceed that value -just-, making random gibs nonexistent. Many horde guilds were unable to defeat Ouro until after they had defeated ~ 4-5 Naxxramas bosses, purely because their cloth wearers required the health boost from the better gear to ensure survivability.

The amount of people who post in these threads who have next to no idea honestly astounds me.

Which made Ouro a really poorly designed fight. It was like they didn't playtest it at all (hint: They didn't)

[Deleted]

Bhahaha! You really think that?! Hahaha, oh, jeez, let me whipe the tears out of my eyes. Then let me come over and pull off your rosetinted glasses.

The only reason that shit stayed unkilled for any duration in vanilla was bugs. Let us carefully note, the amount of time from Lady Sinestra's first pull to Hotfixes: Sub 1 hour, infact as paragon notes, there were hotfixes DURING the fights. Now compare that to C'thun... how long till they patched out hideous showstoppers that made him UNkillable... 2+ months.

Get ur 'facts' straight

[Uriel]

Well i think the vanillaBosses arnt harder than current ones. All of these are 40 Man Raids so..
-So how long would it take to manage 40 People? to get 40 people together for a raid? 10 or even 25 Poeple are far more easy to manage.
-In Vanilla there werent as much players as there is now. With 90% of the players to be Idiots there werent much more good players left to fill a 40 Man raid.
- there was only one Tanking Class:Warrior. Palas has been poor tanks and druids only shifted in Emergencies and DKs didnt exist. So it took longer to find the right amout of Tanks.
- Much more mechaniks like Immunities to Elemental Damage or so.

I am not that surpiesed that Vanillaraids took longer than any other raids because of this.

[shadowkras]

Im sorry but that list is bogus. Shouldnt you count it since the time he was available?
Like

#5 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 70 days from One Light in the Darkness. 7th July 2009

Shouldnt it be since launch? Or at LEAST since the first 4 light kill, or since the first general vezax kill?
Did you know that you dont have to do 1-2-3 lights to do the 4 light kill? You could go straight from 0 lights to the 4 lights the following week.
That list looks really biased to certain bosses. Like

#3 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.

That one looks perfectly fine. The last boss was available after the second to last boss was dead. Why is yogg saron an exception? Are you considering algalon only being available after alone in the dark aswell?

And why is putricide the boss that unlocks heroic lich king? Im sure some guilds skipped him for a while and downed lana thel or even sindragosa first, as heroic putricide mechanics were really random (and number heavy) to deal with at start.
Or was heroic putricide the first heroic wing boss to be killed?

And that list should separate 10 from 25s, as things are clearly different, specially in cata.

[ChildeRoland]

When the top four are from vanilla, i think something was done right.
And also how 10 of the 30 are from vanilla, sorta shows that everything was better.

Not to shocked that ouro was #1, that was one of the most hectic fights in the history of wow.

Something done right? Making bosses unkillable unless you gear up one specific class, bugs, need better gear etc isn't good. And we're yet to see the last 2 bosses + Al'akir 25 man in Cata. At least Al'akir 25 might take a while, being the only boss tuned harder for 25 than for 10.

[llcoolbean]

Vanilla WoW was the only raids they actually put any effort or thought into, they are still hard and you need to know mechanics of the fights to win, cant just faceroll like ppl like to do with old BC and early LK raiding.

[ChildeRoland]

Where is professor putricide 25 heroic ? HE was harder than Lich King 25 heroic.

---------- Post added 2011-01-24 at 11:54 AM ----------

oh and BTW Lich King 25 heroic wasnt killed with 0% buff - only some guild that already had full 277 284 gear did it which is too late anyways.

How did you get 284 gear without killing him first?

And he was killed with the 5% buff by Paragon, other guilds managed it with the 10% as far as i remember.

[Deleted]

When the top four are from vanilla, i think something was done right.
And also how 10 of the 30 are from vanilla, sorta shows that everything was better.

Not to shocked that ouro was #1, that was one of the most hectic fights in the history of wow.

Ouro was an optional boss => cthun had priority, that and only that is the reason it took so long. He was pretty much killed very fast after Cthun was killed and the raid guilds focused on him.

Also in vanilla the difficulty arose from equipping 40 people, playing with ISDN half way, HAVING 40people and addons being very bad. not to mention that there was no 3 weeks trial on ptr period.

Cthun was a bitch back then but Ouro stayed alive because everybody was on for the world first AQ40 "clear" run

[Deleted]

It is a fine list, but it ain't really "fair" cause there is so many factors that comes into the dates etc. C'thun being overtuned so no one could kill him in the start.
Also all the dates should have been from the release of the instance in my opinion. Great piece of work tho!

[Deleted]

Vanilla WoW was the only raids they actually put any effort or thought into, they are still hard and you need to know mechanics of the fights to win, cant just faceroll like ppl like to do with old BC and early LK raiding.

many fights in vanilla were "hit it hit it!" for most players. MC was an AFK-fest. Many difficulties arose from not being able to break fear on the raid...
You had people running around partially green in MC and Onyxia.

The only thing done right in classic raids was that you had to get items from one boss to do another boss (nefarian onyxia stuff) and resistances to some extent (although they screwed up with nature resistance as imbalance between horde/alliance made raiding for one faction impossible as they couldnt get one world boss kill due to massive overcamping).
there were interesting fights in vanilla (mostly in naxx and AQ) but the larger part was nothing too extensive

---------- Post added 2011-01-24 at 11:01 AM ----------

Also all the dates should have been from the release of the instance in my opinion.

if you cant kill the second last boss that doesnt make the last boss harder. also it would make the entire list consist of the endbosses of raids instead of the bosses that actually stopped people from progressing

[Poodles]

Out of those 70+ days it took them to kill C'thun how much of that time was the boss unkillable because of a design flaw? And did anyone take into account the number of guilds attempting World Firsts now as opposed to Vanilla? I'm betting they've increased hundreds fold. So quit saying Vanilla was better. It wasn't. Nor was it harder. It was just poorly designed by today's standards.

Quoting from wowpedia: "In its first inception, C'Thun was considered to be unbeatable with the current level of gear. However, following a number of hot fixes, phase two was made considerably more controllable, and the first kills were registered in a matter of hours following one such hot fix."

I actually raided back in vanilla, but quit after we started doing molten core. It was a REDICULOUS grind to get the fire resist gear to last in there. It wasn't fun to have to do a raid instance to mine and grind rep for gear that was required.

I kinda think it's funny how people complain about professions being hard to level now. They really have no clue...

[Nitrax]

MC is soloable now. Even though bosses are lvl 88 when counting hit%. Just proves that the mechanics of vanilla raids were not very imaginative...

[TheRabidDeer]

MC is soloable now. Even though bosses are lvl 88 when counting hit%. Just proves that the mechanics of vanilla raids were not very imaginative...

What? This doesnt even make sense. You can solo most level 60 content now because bosses hit for such a small amount of damage. When something that used to 1 or 2 shot you, it now takes 50 hits to kill you. On top of this, we do damage equal to like 20 level 60's, if not more. If boss damage scaled with their level like their hit did, then none of it would be soloable because you would still be dying in 2 hits.

[grieves]

Also you needed to kill Alar to gain entry to Solarian (at the time), so that shouldn't be there.

you didnt need to kill alar to get to solarian she was just like loot-reaver just sneak past and go down her hallway so mag to get key was all that was req to get to her

[Rosh]

Cant say we had PTR back in vanilla where people learned the encounters before getting released on Live.

[Rampant Rabbit]

"I like having to do other shit that wastes my time, so that I can spend only a small portion of my gaming time to do what I want: raid. This is clearly the superior way."

Idiot.

You seriously think that no one needs any management at all in guilds anymore? Thank god you're not in my guild; I don't tolerate such retardation.

Wow.

Look who just got banned by replying in such a manner to a completely neutral post! You!

Such a shame. I almost wish they didn't ban you just so I could have a discussion with you about this as I feel misjudged. I never said or implied that "This is clearly the superior way.". I merely stated my opinion.

[crabmousse]

things to take into account:

- a 40 man raid took about twice as long to gear as a 25 man raid, had MC/BWL/AQ40/Naxx40 been 25 man raids they would have gone down faster because the tanks could take more abuse, the DPS could do more damage (sometimes, http://huhuranisserious.ytmnd.com/) and the healers could heal more.

- 40 man raids weren't more difficult by design, they were logistically difficult because of the sheer number of players involved. yes they felt more epic, yes they gave us a real sense of accomplishment (nothing will ever beat my first Nefarion kill, nothing ever) but it wasn't good, universal game design. do you want skill to be your only stumbling block, or do you want afks, disconnects, bugged boss mechanics and low raid signups? the game has been refined to put more control in the hands of the player and less control in the hands of unaccountable and random happenings.

- Vanilla bosses weren't playtested in Beta by the same guilds getting the world firsts, raids went in completely blind to badly tested or untested encounters. hotfixes weren't nearly as fast or convenient. again, the difficulty wasn't due to difficulty, it was due to random, unaccountable happenings.

- there weren't nearly as many top guilds, there wasn't the level of competition, sponsorship, theorycrafting. the playerbase has more than doubled since Vanilla, kills are more high profile, the rewards are greater, more people are pushing themselves and pushing themselves harder in order to kill the bosses. and since most have been raiding 3-6 years at a high level, we need to remember skill and experience comes over time. WoW is not a difficult game but there are still little bits and pieces that with practise becomes second nature to a raider.

-those complaining about Vanilla being better/harder/more epic, it's almost 99% that you're progressing in the heroic bosses. if you were, you wouldn't be whining on the forum about it. Paragon said this has been the hardest overall tier of raiding, maybe try reading their posts instead of fingering your asshole looking at a killshot and heading straight to the forums to cry about Vanilla.

despite these facts, I am still a big fan of Vanilla WoW, however I'm also not a big crying baby: that time has been and gone. the game has certainly changed and changed for the worst at times, WoTLK was a horrible expansion. but Cataclysm is a big improvement, a step towards the difficulty of Vanilla again, and there is one massive point about this list and the 'Vanilla was better' argument:

CATACLYSM HAS FOUR BOSSES FROM THE FIRST TIER OF RAIDING

Vanilla has Raggy, TBC has Gruul and Maggy, WoTLK has (shockingly) nothing, but in the first tier of Cataclysm raiding alone there are four bosses in the top 30 entires of bosses who stayed unkilled the longest: Al'Akir, Cho'gall, Nefarion and Sinestra. it will be interesting to see how many Cataclysm provdes by the end.

[Jainzar]

nice thread

[gruggi]

Notice how these are mostly from Vanilla/BC, when raids were actually difficult and awesome.

If you're gonna say it like that, I'll play your game, notice how there are already 4 bosses in there and it's the 1st tier of raid in Cataclysm.

[Conno]

Ouro, stayed up the longest because he was an optional boss, guilds went for c'thun before they went for ouro.