Magmaw DK Adds Kiting

[Alonewarrior]

We have tried many different ways of doing this fight on 10 man and found that the best way to handle it is to have the tank stand on one side of the edge, and the melee, healers and ranged on the other side. We have a hunter in our group so we leave him standing out in ranged to dps. When Pillar of Flame comes the hunter drops his frost trap and all the ranged turn and start burning. We have dps death knights in our group, both frost. We send one of them in to Howling Blast and AoE the adds down with the ranged, while still maintaining some distance between himself and the adds. The other death knight will occasionally throw a DnD down on the adds if the extra damage is needed, but it usually isn't.

[Avatar Killer]

We have tried many different ways of doing this fight on 10 man and found that the best way to handle it is to have the tank stand on one side of the edge, and the melee, healers and ranged on the other side. We have a hunter in our group so we leave him standing out in ranged to dps. When Pillar of Flame comes the hunter drops his frost trap and all the ranged turn and start burning. We have dps death knights in our group, both frost. We send one of them in to Howling Blast and AoE the adds down with the ranged, while still maintaining some distance between himself and the adds. The other death knight will occasionally throw a DnD down on the adds if the extra damage is needed, but it usually isn't.

not sure about the positioning thing but having a DK HB kite them to death with D&D and another DK also use D&D after agro is set in stone for a 10 man fight is a wonderful way to handle it

[Bellinne]

I do this for our guild, and it's the easiest method of dealing with the adds possible. There's negative DPS lost on the boss, as losing my dps for most of the fight isn't anywhere near the loss that would come from losing 2-3 people for 15-20 seconds at a go.

It's SUPER easy to kite, and we were actually having issues with this fight until we decided to have me do the kiting as opposed to our hunter. I'd rather have him tunnelling the boss like a champ while I round up worms and take them in circles.

Even after the HB damage nerf in this coming patch, I feel like a frost DK will still be the best choice for kiting this fight, and I have zero problems with this fact. It's entertaining watching loot go out with what feels like zero effort on my part.

As for the argument that it's threat, not distance, whoever was saying distance is actually correct. We run with two tanks to ease the mangle phase on the healers (armor debuff not funzzzz) and we noticed that after the tank was dropped, our rogue was nearly getting oneshotted, even though the second tank taunted during mangle to take threat. Magmaw is not amused by squishies in his hitbox.

Honestly it's a stupid easy fight.

[Alonewarrior]

not sure about the positioning thing but having a DK HB kite them to death with D&D and another DK also use D&D after agro is set in stone for a 10 man fight is a wonderful way to handle it

Well, the DK doesn't have to do much kiting because the three ranged dps all hit their AoEs and burn the adds quick enough that there won't be a lot of time to kite. It give the dps plenty of time for burning the boss, as well.

[Druchii]

We have our 2nd tank, who happens to be a DK, go DPS as his spec contains Chillblains. Pop on Blood Presence for adds, kite while dps kill. Switch to correct dps presence to finish off Magmaw etc.

Works perfectly.

[Achilles21]

The HB nerf next patch wont change anything, HB in blood presence will still be great for snaring and keeping aggro on the parasites so your ranged can blow them up without pulling aggro.

It won't change anything because there still will be no need to kill adds at all. Why bother have a DK kite adds if you're going to kill them anyway? Now THAT is a waste of dps, for both the DK who could be on the boss if you're just going to AoE them down and for the ranged who could be on the boss because you have a DK kiting. The point of having a kiter is to take the "killing adds" portion of the fight out of the equation, allowing everyone to focus on Magmaw. A 40% dps nerf to HB won't affect this at all, the DK will still be able to hold threat on the adds no matter what presence they're in, and still do pretty damn good dps.

[Avatar Killer]

Well, the DK doesn't have to do much kiting because the three ranged dps all hit their AoEs and burn the adds quick enough that there won't be a lot of time to kite. It give the dps plenty of time for burning the boss, as well.

oh so your saying that only the dk kites them and the ranged do what they are supposed to do and actually kill the adds.. then your fine. very well done.

[Sylla]

lol you have a tank actually stand there and tank the adds... sounds as inefficient as it gets.

having a DK kite them is just a silly waste of dps as there are many other classes that have better uses of their abilities. and forcing a DK not use his fullest potential (meaning cannot melee) and other casters can use the entirety of their abilities (since they DON'T auto attack or melee with strikes)

granted yes adds are a priority but there are better ways to handle it.

Just saying, until the ranged in our group got quite geared, our main tank DK in a pvp frost spec with 2 blue weapons (lol) would top dps kiting the worms. Im talking 20k + every time, we would make jokes about how much gear we would need to beat a dk pressing one button kind of thing. With his aoe and my starfall the adds are all dead almost right as the slump starts allowing him to run in and do some dps to the head too.

Since every single other dps can just sit and tunnel massively for the rest of the entire fight you gain so much more dps than you do any other way. I have ranked on that fight on several occasions and wonder how many people better geared (or skilled i guess) have missed out because they have to run back and forth.

Edit: i should probably say its an easy fight we have done it a few different ways, with non main group members, alts etc etc. but this way just makes the fight so much faceroll i cant see any reason not to do it.

[Avatar Killer]

It won't change anything because there still will be no need to kill adds at all. Why bother have a DK kite adds if you're going to kill them anyway? Now THAT is a waste of dps, for both the DK who could be on the boss if you're just going to AoE them down and for the ranged who could be on the boss because you have a DK kiting. The point of having a kiter is to take the "killing adds" portion of the fight out of the equation, allowing everyone to focus on Magmaw. A 40% dps nerf to HB won't affect this at all, the DK will still be able to hold threat on the adds no matter what presence they're in, and still do pretty damn good dps.

this is what i was trying to say exactly.

[Madriel]

Anyone done it?

Seems some of the guildies were having trouble coordinating to get out of the adds with all of them at ranged, and it sounds like the GL may want me to do the frost kiting. I know I'll have to be in BP and drop DnD and then HB the shit out of them, but any other tips from people? Is chillblains necessary, and if so is it suggested to get both points or is the 25% slow good enough? Also, is the strat to just leave them alive the whole time except for ones that die to my own abilities, or will the ranged guys want to be AoEing them down as well since I'll have the aggro from BP?

Thanks in advance for any help.

I personally have my off-spec set to match my main frost spec, but I moved 2 points out of epidemic into Chillblains for the slow, both points aren't really needed if you have some nice AoE in group. All you really have to do is put your blood presence on so you can grab their attention, slow em with your chillblains, and have a rogue, lock, or w/e you happen to have in group come AoE them down. It's quick and easy, as long as everyone stays in melee range of the boss to make sure no pillars pop under anyone but you. You can ofcourse pop your frost presence and dps the boss while his head is spiked, as well as throw a HB, DC, w/e while you're kiting.

[kaelleria]

We have the OT go dps and have a hunter stand at range. Hunter then places a trap underneath his feet. Adds spawn, ranged dps turns around and voila. No more adds.

[Avatar Killer]

I personally have my off-spec set to match my main frost spec, but I moved 2 points out of epidemic into Chillblains for the slow, both points aren't really needed if you have some nice AoE in group. All you really have to do is put your blood presence on so you can grab their attention, slow em with your chillblains, and have a rogue, lock, or w/e you happen to have in guild come AoE them down. It's quick and easy, as long as everyone stays in melee range of the boss to make sure no pillars pop under anyone but you. You can ofcourse pop your frost presence and dps the boss while his head is spiked, as well as throw a HB, DC, w/e while you're kiting.

the specing into it for one fight is kinda not needed BUT if you DO do this you dont need to be in blood presence to do it properly. being in UH presence is fine since D&D will do perfectly fine on its own to get agro.

[Thaendra]

My guild also does the chilblains/frost DK kiting thing... we did it in both, but prefer to in 25 anyway. In 10 man the adds had low enough HP so that they could be killed by ranged alone (since we had hunter traps, which are a good replacement for a kiter)... if you're lacking that though the frost DK kiting works very well because they are higher DPS on adds anyway than ranged in some cases, doing top DPS while kiting.. so the DK plus the ranged killing the adds, they die very quickly and people can get back to the boss, including the DK. Everyone happy Well except Magmaw of course because he's dead.

Edit: and to anyone having "threat" issues right after he comes off the spike, yes, his threat does reset. If you have an offtank, the best time for them to switch threat is to start pulling ahead in threat while magmaw is nom'ing on the other tank. I've found that (as an offtank), doing that will prevent any melee DPS from having to stop DPS at all, and if I built enough threat while the other tank was up in the air, no one was getting one-shot from whacky threat, even if they were standing right next to the boss.

[Xandrellas]

For Heroic Magmaw I blood presence DnD, HB - Frost presence HB spam with death coil to proc runic empowerment and more HBs.


Pro tip - get Dark Intent from a warlock and go berserk on the meters if you are so inclined.

Myself along with two warlocks shadowflaming take them down pretty quick.

[Shirosaki]

Honestly, as a frost DK, you'll be able to throw 4 maybe 5 howling blasts on them, and if they aren't dead by then then your ranged dps sucks :P

[Avatar Killer]

Honestly, as a frost DK, you'll be able to throw 4 maybe 5 howling blasts on them, and if they aren't dead by then then your ranged dps sucks :P

lol if you have a DK target them at all he should be kiting them not dpsing them. That take IS a waste of dps.

[DrosoFrank]

lol you have a tank actually stand there and tank the adds... sounds as inefficient as it gets.

having a DK kite them is just a silly waste of dps as there are many other classes that have better uses of their abilities. and forcing a DK not use his fullest potential (meaning cannot melee) and other casters can use the entirety of their abilities (since they DON'T auto attack or melee with strikes)

granted yes adds are a priority but there are better ways to handle it.

We have a prot warior tank the adds. This is as efficient as it gets, because DPS COMPLETELY IGNORE adds for the whole fight.
So we have all our dps stand in melee and focus on boss, main tank solo tanks boss, and prot warrior stands at range, grabs all the adds that spawn, rend, thunder clap, shockwave, and *victory rush* his way to glory.
Little to no heals needed when victory rush starts proccing every 2 seconds (40% max hp when glyphed), and heroic leap and shockwave to kite when it gets too much. They will all die by themselves from rend and thunder clap.

If you call that inefficient, you're being ignorant.

[Sylla]

this is what i was trying to say exactly.

That doesnt make sense though. The question you asked was: why have a DK kite adds if you are going to kill them anyway?

-By having a DK kite the danger they present is completely negated, allowing them to be killed at the raid's leisure rather than being forced to switch every time they spawn.

-This in turn means the dps are able to maximize their single target damage to the boss. Therefore the boss dies faster.

-Any danger the adds presented - jumping on people and doing damage, multiplying and getting out of control etc - is completely negated.

-On top of that, the pillar picks a member out of melee range. The pillar also presents both a danger and a damage loss to people who have to move from it.

-By having everybody stack in range the DK is picked for the pillar every time, maximizing everybody's dps since they dont have to move

-This is also much safer, since nobody can inadvertently take damage from the pillar because they didn't move fast enough etc etc.

Are they good enough reasons? OP, if you have tried it the other way, definitely give dk kiting a go. We killed him the normal way the first week of the xpac, it was annoying. After we discovered this way our main tank respecs every week just to cheese this fight.

[boseguy22]

Honestly, as a frost DK, you'll be able to throw 4 maybe 5 howling blasts on them, and if they aren't dead by then then your ranged dps sucks :P

There is still no reason for the ranged DPS to change target. One DK, even after the HB nerf can solo all the worms. Let the ranged tunnel vision. Move from side to side and nuke. Magmaw dies, everyone gets loot. DK takes near top DPS with while kiting.

[Achilles21]

That doesnt make sense though. The question you asked was: why have a DK kite adds if you are going to kill them anyway?

-By having a DK kite the danger they present is completely negated, allowing them to be killed at the raid's leisure rather than being forced to switch every time they spawn.

-This in turn means the dps are able to maximize their single target damage to the boss. Therefore the boss dies faster.

-Any danger the adds presented - jumping on people and doing damage, multiplying and getting out of control etc - is completely negated.

-On top of that, the pillar picks a member out of melee range. The pillar also presents both a danger and a damage loss to people who have to move from it.

-By having everybody stack in range the DK is picked for the pillar every time, maximizing everybody's dps since they dont have to move

-This is also much safer, since nobody can inadvertently take damage from the pillar because they didn't move fast enough etc etc.

Are they good enough reasons? OP, if you have tried it the other way, definitely give dk kiting a go. We killed him the normal way the first week of the xpac, it was annoying. After we discovered this way our main tank respecs every week just to cheese this fight.

The issue is, you are wasting dps by killing adds that do not need to be killed. If the DK has aggro and is kiting, there is no danger of them getting on anyone, provided the DK does his/her job properly.

Also, the pillar will not pick anyone in melee range if you have the raid stack close enough to the boss, it will only target the ranged people (i.e. your DK, hunters, etc.). If you have pillars targeting your raid in melee range it means someone is standing too far away from Magmaw and is being considered "at range" instead of in melee.