PETA is a horrid, corrupt organization.

[Lord Kristivas]

We came to the top of the food chain not because we cared about other living beings, but simply because we killed everything in our path and ate it.
You think a lion wouldnt eat you if it had the chance? Nature is cruel, and so are we.

Agreed. More than that.. the sweet little kitty you saved from the animal shelter that you've loved, fed, given attention to.. would have no qualms at all about eating you if you died in your home, or if by some sci-fi means, you woke up and were six inches tall. All of that love would be forgotten, and you'd be batted around the floor, clawed, bitten, and eventually consumed after dying a torturous death, and all the screaming in the world wouldn't stop said cat from doing so.

[Felya]

The library does not encourage specific viewpoints, the books do that. If the PETA message was in the library then you condone the book it was in.

No, but the books in the library certainly do. You have to seek out or want to read that PETA promotes violence. PETA message is in the library, there are plenty of books which are more militant than PETA on the same subject. The open and obvious message of PETA is to protect animals. If you want to blow things up in the name of PETA, you will read messages from people that are part of PETA that you will interpret as much, regardless of what they say. Same way as going to the library with the mindset of finding a reason to blow things up. Normal people, regardless of their beliefs, can read members of PETA calling for violence is not right, but understand that the over all message is right. You can break down any message and devolve into what you want to believe.

Obviously, what constitutes a normal person might be different between us.

You can't honestly say "the library wanted me to build bombs!"

You can't honestly say that about PETA either. Check their manifesto...

You would of course want better regulation of the material but assuming a library is outwardly condoning all material on its shelves is absolutely ludicrous. Consider just how many many books in a library contradict one another. Can it really encourage two conflicting viewpoints at the same time? No.

The opposing view to PETA is to encourage the abuse of animals...

[SensenmanN]

Why should animals have any less rights than people?

Because they aren't people?

It's the same with redheads and fat people, they have no soul. DUH


(On a serious note, I don't understand how people can put an animal on the same level as a human being. I certainly would be all for fighting animal cruelty, but treating an animal with equal status as a human, doesn't make sense to me.)

[Tastyfish]

So what about Foie gras?
Its not something we need, or most of us don't bother to eat, but the proccess of making it is nasty as hell and kinda cruel.

Foie gras= Duck/goose liver fattned by shoving a tube down the animals mouth and force feeding it grain in order to fatten the liver.

[Theodrid]

I find it funny how you have no real athority to speak about the psychological state of other people in your last patagraph, but are quick to invalidate someone for being a med student. You should stick to the facts you know and not inject your opinion on how other folks feel. :P

Just a question also: What does animal genetics research have to do with meat packing?

I was making separate points about some topics of conversation I had come across. My intent was not to have them all completely correlated.

As to your criticism, which is a huge strawman, I never claimed to be an absolute authority on human psychology (unless you want to count all the years I've been alive using my very human brain.)

Just because I don't dot my speech with "I believe's" or "I think's" like a driveling high school essay trying to meet a word quota, doesn't mean you can casually brush aside points I made. Since when does direct speech with little equivocation on my point represent a claim to be an authority on a subject. If I was making such a claim I would have stated as such; believe me.

[Felya]

So what about Foie gras?
Its not something we need, or most of us don't bother to eat, but the proccess of making it is nasty as hell and kinda cruel.

I need it, it's good stuff. But as I already said, banning any sort of consumable product will land it on the black market. When said product is tied to an animal, the regulations free black market will undoubtedly lead to worse treatment of animals. The only way to actually stop production of duck liver, is to discourage people from eating it. It will only go away if people don't want to buy it and as long as people like me are around, it's not going away. But, I am not about to demonize people who try to help animals.

[Zoots]

PETA.... aren't these the people that want to call fish "Sea Kittens"? Oh wait... yes they are.

http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/about.asp

People don't seem to like fish. They're slithery and slimy, and they have eyes on either side of their pointy little heads—which is weird, to say the least. Plus, the small ones nibble at your feet when you're swimming, and the big ones—well, the big ones will bite your face off if Jaws is anything to go by.
Of course, if you look at it another way, what all this really means is that fish need to fire their PR guy—stat. Whoever was in charge of creating a positive image for fish needs to go right back to working on the Britney Spears account and leave our scaly little friends alone. You've done enough damage, buddy. We've got it from here. And we're going to start by retiring the old name for good. When your name can also be used as a verb that means driving a hook through your head, it's time for a serious image makeover. And who could possibly want to put a hook through a sea kitten?

I think PETA is just a giant Troll organization... I mean, Sea Kittens? REALLY? And they talk about being the PR guy for fish... lawl

[littlegiant]

Peta = People Eating Tasty Aninals

[Felya]

Foie gras= Duck/goose liver fattned by shoving a tube down the animals mouth and force feeding it grain in order to fatten the liver.

That's only done because, as you can imagine, duck liver is very small. The good stuff, does not actually force feed. If I'm already dumping the cash for duck liver, I might as well go for the good stuff. It's too expensive either way, you don't buy it to save money.

That's kind of one of the points points I can get behind with PETA. You can have the same food, but without the mistreatment of animals. The reason why sites like the OP posted exist, is because it is far more financially effective for the meat industry to spend millions on lobbying and convincing people that PETA is evil, than the far more expensive and logistic nightmare of having to change their practices. It's far more effective to fatten the duck liver and sell far more product, while lobbying and paying of these sites, than change so you actually give people a better quality product. You also have to understand that PETA can't make a profit, while people who oppose them post huge profits. Maybe if PETA had as much cash behind them and much more money running on their success, their ads would be more effective and better. Maybe they would be able to spend millions on a firm to make a site that calls it self grass roots to promote their cause.

[Tastyfish]

I was making separate points about some topics of conversation I had come across. My intent was not to have them all completely correlated.

As to your criticism, which is a huge strawman, I never claimed to be an absolute authority on human psychology (unless you want to count all the years I've been alive using my very human brain.)

Just because I don't dot my speech with "I believe's" or "I think's" like a driveling high school essay trying to meet a word quota, doesn't mean you can casually brush aside points I made. Since when does direct speech with little equivocation on my point represent a claim to be an authority on a subject. If I was making such a claim I would have stated as such; believe me.

Thats all good and all but, what does genetic research have to do with meat packing plants?

[Lord Kristivas]

That's only done because, as you can imagine, duck liver is very small. The good stuff, does not actually force feed. If I'm already dumping the cash for duck liver, I might as well go for the good stuff. It's too expensive either way, you don't buy it to save money.

Really? I think it's a little contradictory to say..

The opposing view to PETA is to encourage the abuse of animals...

And then go on about how tasty Foie Gras is. PETA certainly wouldn't agree with you. They'd want you to never eat another bite, even if it was the "good stuff".

Opposing PETA isn't encouraging animal cruelty. You can oppose PETA, eat hamburgers, wear fur, and still not want to see animals abused, beaten, taunted, and the like before they're killed for said products.

[Zamfix]

The very idea that animals have rights is surreal.

Altough unnecessary torture of animals is not something I support.

Humans are animals. Therefore humans should not have rights.

[helic]

Sounds like you are describing some sort of code or something that these dogs abide by. I could have sworn you said they didn't. Strange...

Dont mistake a human code of ethics for a dog's pack mentality, we choose to treat others with respect and dignity because thats how we want to live and be treated in return we also have the choice to treat people like trash if we want. Dog's/animals dont make decisions on this kind of mental level, they view any other species as hostile (usually with good reason) and as an automatic threat to there survival so they group up to feel safer and one of the 2 will attacked even while un prevoked.

[Theodrid]

Thats all good and all but, what does genetic research have to do with meat packing plants?

They are both highly criticized area in which animal treatment is highlighted. As I told you before, there is no direct correlation, but I am at loss as to what your point is by your constant reference to them.

[Tastyfish]

That's only done because, as you can imagine, duck liver is very small. The good stuff, does not actually force feed. If I'm already dumping the cash for duck liver, I might as well go for the good stuff. It's too expensive either way, you don't buy it to save money.

OH i understand that, and i agree with what you said before completly. I wanted to throw into this something that is cruel and wanted but not needed. I don't think we should burn the earth cause red dyes are made form beetles or anything, but some stuff is just out there.

---------- Post added 2011-02-02 at 06:04 PM ----------

@Theodrid
thought you were implying something like you were growing rat ears on my hamburgers :P LOL ^_^

[Felya]

Really? I think it's a little contradictory to say.

How so? I like better quality, so I prefer my food to be naturally raised and preferably local. I do have a PCC membership.

And then go on about how tasty Foie Gras is. PETA certainly wouldn't agree with you. They'd want you to never eat another bite, even if it was the "good stuff".

So, because I like meat I am supposed to demonize PETA. No, I am sorry, the fact that I eat meat does not inhibit my ability to see that animals should not be mistreated. Nothing in me eating requires the animal to be tortured before I eat it.

Opposing PETA isn't encouraging animal cruelty. You can oppose PETA, eat hamburgers, wear fur, and still not want to see animals abused, beaten, taunted, and the like before they're killed for said products.

Yes, you can also do all that and support PETA as well. As shocking as it may seem, I do not like animals to be tortured before I eat them. It gives a bitter after taste... lol

Dont mistake a human code of ethics for a dog's pack mentality, we choose to treat others with respect and dignity because thats how we want to live and be treated in return we also have the choice to treat people like trash if we want. Dog's/animals dont make decisions on this kind of mental level, they view any other species as hostile (usually with good reason) and as an automatic threat to there survival so they group up to feel safer and one of the 2 will attacked even while un prevoked.

Yeah, they actually do. They protect, they feed and train their young, they show respect, nothing you actually listed is what differentiates humans from other animals. As hard as it is to believe, the biggest difference between us and pack animals is the same as any other animal, opposable thumbs and cognitive thought. The only fundamental thing an animal like a dog does not have a mental capacity to ask that we can, is how and why. We are special because we ca ask those questions and have hands that are capable of accomplish the answer.

[Tastyfish]

IN the end all my druid buddies, there is a reason Yersa set the Emerald Dream away form Azeroth, too many pig farms, and gnomes.
some folks are like Nelfs, others don't eat pork like saurfang, others still are like garrosh, but we can at least all agree, hawkstrider makes bad fried chicken. :P

[Lord Kristivas]

So, because I like meat I am supposed to demonize PETA. No, I am sorry, the fact that I eat meat does not inhibit my ability to see that animals should not be mistreated. Nothing in me eating requires the animal to be tortured before I eat it.

They'd demonize you, and that's my point. There's a huge difference between being against animal cruelty and supporting PETA.

[Alfador]

So, if PETA's message was only in the library, it would be fine? Just like what you are saying about the books in a library, you had to seek out that picture to show it to me. It was not in my face, until you put the effort you put into finding it and posting it. I didn't have to see it, if I didn't click on a thread with PETA in the title. If someone wants to seek out something in PETA's message that would lead them to violence, I'm fairly certain that the person would have committed the violence anyway. To me, it doesn't mater if PETA puts a gun in your hand and tells you to pull the trigger. I'm the sort that still blames you for the shooting, as I do not believe in words being at fault for peoples actions.



I would not have seen that picture if it was not for you or unless I seek it out. What sort of efforts did PETA use to force people, and especially children, to view them without wanting to? Because to me, it seems like, if you don't seek it out, they have no way to force you to see it. But, that's the point of having posters that are that controversial. If it wasn't controversial, you would have no reason to seek it out and talk about it. To me, that seems to be very effective, with your actions being a blatant example. The worst thing you can do to PETA, is ignore it...

Wow. You are sadly, sadly out of touch. First of all, I disagree with their message no matter how they distribute it, and you are being ignorant to assume otherwise. You seem to have some ridiculous conceptual misunderstanding between content creators and content hosts. The library hosts content for you to find, should you so choose. The scan I posted is of a comic book that they HAND OUT TO CHILDREN. Children don't choose to go buy this (and I'm of the opinion it shouldn't be sold to them anyway) but it is given to them. It is distributedto children, without their parents' knowledge, in an effort to turn them against their parents over eating meat. The goal is to alienate children from their parents because the parents disagree with PETA's views. It's one thing to shove material in the face of adults (equally obnoxious but adults can make their own decisions) and something completely different to undermine the parent-child relationship to spread a message.

Oh, and generating controversy to get attention is just a sad and pathetic ploy by people who are otherwise being ignored. It just proves how useless PETA is that they need to resort to such tactics to get people to even acknowledge their message. And no, the worst thing can do to them isn't to ignore them. My actions don't make people aware of them who aren't already, and if even one single person who didn't think they were idiots before comes to that conclusion after being presented my argument, I have done more harm to their cause than if I just sat there and ignored them. You can spare the rhetoric.

[helic]

Yeah, they actually do. They protect, they feed and train their young, they show respect, nothing you actually listed is what differentiates humans from other animals. As hard as it is to believe, the biggest difference between us and pack animals is the same as any other animal, opposable thumbs and cognitive thought.[/QUOTE]

Gota say that cognitive thought is the only reason we have this discussion on how we should treat animals, other than that its just down to they would eat me if they were hungry right? A little far from the topic of PETA being some sort of terrible orginization tho but im not a fan of the classic hey that guys eating meat lets go pour blood on him then yell at him.