PETA is a horrid, corrupt organization.

[Nielah]

People from Africa can and do learn physics. Can a dog?

Troll, begone!

[Deleted]

Honestly i dont see why people get so worked up on these topics? Would you let a cockraoch live under your bed?? Are you willing to let that cockroach have a family? How about rats?...But they are animals....aww how cute..look at that tiny cockroach with those tiny cute antennae. I say its bull. Fine i dont agree with killing animals for fun, example hunting for sport, bull fights, dog fights, and so on but if i see a roach im gonna squish the living hell out of it and the only thought that comes through my mind when i see a cow is "hmm im sure she'll make some fine steak".

Im pretty sure most of the people here who "love" animals and want to protect them have never been on a farm, seen a cute fluffy lamb in real life or how fun a young donkey can be.

If you don't eat meat just because you don't like it then fine but if you don't eat meat with the excuse that you think you are going to save a cow from dying then you are terribly wrong and you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

This discussion is mostly about people not taking care of their pets.... I mean hell some people don't even take care of their children how do you expect some people to take care of a dog? How will pet stores sell pets?...send social services to your home to check if you are eligible to buy a pet?....not a bad idea actually but its still not the point. People should be responsible with their pets, just like people should be responible with their car, with their guns, with their children, Thoes that mean that people are just irresponsible and should not be trusted with anything?

[unkn0wnerr0r]

I did bio mechanics and while irealise you process information via computers you do not go strait from the first batch to trial on humans instantly incase it causes adverse effects, you test with a wider genetic gap incase there is something fudementally wrong with your formula.

I guess I should say that first, I understand animal testing has to occur. The vast majority of it as you know is useless though. Think back to all of the experiments you run on animals. How much of it was viable? 10% maybe. If you want a good example look at all the wasted work on animals infected with aids. Those idiots knew full well that the structure of the immune system was so radically different as to not give us any viable data. Yet it went on for years, and years. Countless animals dead, and lots of money wasted. Why? So that they could say they were testing it. Computer modeling would have been a far better practice in this case. Personally I think the rules on human testing should be relaxed significantly. If you have a terminal volunteer, why not let them in on early testing.

You have to admit that the best way to know what a drug will do in the human body, is testing it in the human body.

[Arcadem]

I guess I should say that first, I understand animal testing has to occur. The vast majority of it as you know is useless though. Think back to all of the experiments you run on animals. How much of it was viable? 10% maybe. If you want a good example look at all the wasted work on animals infected with aids. Those idiots knew full well that the structure of the immune system was so radically different as to not give us any viable data. Yet it went on for years, and years. Countless animals dead, and lots of money wasted. Why? So that they could say they were testing it. Computer modeling would have been a far better practice in this case. Personally I think the rules on human testing should be relaxed significantly. If you have a terminal volunteer, why not let them in on early testing.

You have to admit that the best way to know what a drug will do in the human body, is testing it in the human body.

Or testing it on an animal which structure looks a lot like the human structure. And does not kill people.

And yes no matter who you are `real` humans lifes, will always be worth animals lifes.

[Deleted]

...
You have to admit that the best way to know what a drug will do in the human body, is testing it in the human body.

Yes most of it is useless but if your drug effects microchodria by blocking the production of ATP then say testing it on a rat will show this where if you tested this on a human you would loose a human life compared to that of a rat. Now imo I'd rather the rat die.

[Krothar]

Animal cruelty is horrid, but there's a lot that has been posted here that is just stupid. To the guy who said he is going to rape a coma patient because she won't learn physics, get your head sorted out.

I fairly agree with Tikaru on the subject as a whole. Animal cruelty is horrid, we could give animals all the rights in the world but that wouldn't stop the cruelty, its just the way us, as humans work. Some of us find it sick, and some of us are sick enough to do it.

On topic, I'd say do more research on PETA on the whole before making claims, OP.

[unkn0wnerr0r]

This is so incredibly wrong. Animal testing has resulted in so many countless breakthroughs in modern medicine that you can't be in medicine and are a troll. My #1 example would be that insulin was discovered by tying strings around the pancreas of several dogs, and that commerical insulin comes from pig pancreas. http://www.endocrineweb.com/conditio...s-what-insulin

However, there are thousands more. Also, lot's of useful testing can be completed quickly on the common fruitfly, because of how amazingly similar they are to humans http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0315201633.htm

In my bio-mechanics course I attended several guest lectures, and nearly all research performed by engineers in the field of bio-mechanics is done on lab rats. For instance, lab rats are genetically altered to be born with a specific disorder, so that engineers can test a machine that diagnoses that disorder by studying the gait of the affected rats (this disorder affects motor control) with various force plates and cameras. Very cool stuff, very important research, conducted on animals.

http://www.umc.edu/

Check it out.

Second I have already chosen my specialty it's endocrinology. So I'm quite aware of a great many things. Including the fact that you missed Minkowski made his discovery in 1889, that is nowhere near modern.

You want to pose as someone knowing about medicine, try going to school for it. I won't have a discussion like this with someone like you. You can't even tell that 1889 isn't modern by medical standpoints at all.

[wicker]

well here is my view on peta

ill stop eating meat fishing and hunting for a exchange

for every cow pig chicken ect ect we take off the slaughter house line we run 1 of them threw instead

[Zadiell]

They became a busniness, no matter how differant thier causes, anything that becomes a business, will be ruled by business not thier ethics.


about killing animals for survival, half of India is vegitarian, they live without killing any animals, and they survive. for thousands of years, so you dont need to kill animals, don't fool youself. Survival is needs, not luxuries, and desires. I'm not preaching, its a simple fact.

I eat meat, but I don't fool myself into thinking I need it. or make excuses.


But on a side note, anyone who follows an organization such as peta is silly, At thier heart they want to change the world, no diferantly than a tyrant does. People should be governed by thier own ethics, not an organization.

[Deleted]

Oganisations like that only make people worked up and cause national ditress. It is nothing less than terrorism. They make money from terrorizing people into thinking that all human beings are horrible and thoes people that do not agree with them are hell spawns that should either be converted/executed......early Christianism anyone?

[Lilyana]

Because they're not people?

Your dog may be able to bring that stick back, but I doubt s/he should get behind the wheel of a car or be able to vote.

You're one of those people who hasn't lived long so far enough to see the sickening cruelty mankind can do aren't you?

You do realise that humanity doesn't even deserve morally, its place in existence with the amount of daily paedophelia, child abuse, murder, rape war and abuse it does every single day?

And you would rate humans over animals? I wouldn't. How do you know if the human next to you isn't vile? isn't two faced? you don't and you never will know.

Time you took a humility pill. We might use animals, but it doesn't - ever - make us better than them.

[glo]

I love the people that say "you can survive without eating meat, blah blah blah".

We're omnivores. We have been since the stone age. Whether you like it or not, you're body is FAR better off including meat in your diet (proteins, animal fats as catalysts for vitamin absorption, etc). Wanna stick to eating non meats? Have at it and enjoy your less than healthy lifestyle. Just don't preach it as if it's a good choice.

[Jindujun]

well they're just as bad as Greenpeace and all their suborganizations that indulge in ecoterrorism

[zenkai]

Every time I hear the word PETA I get hungry for a hamburger

[Deleted]

I love the people that say "you can survive without eating meat, blah blah blah".

We're omnivores. We have been since the stone age. Whether you like it or not, you're body is FAR better off including meat in your diet (proteins, animal fats as catalysts for vitamin absorption, etc). Wanna stick to eating non meats? Have at it and enjoy your less than healthy lifestyle. Just don't preach it as if it's a good choice.

You can "survive" without meat. You can eat legumes to make up for the protein loss, you could live quite a healthy life but not as healthy with 50g of meat a week. 50g = 2 aborted baby chickens....i mean eggs. * sorry had to*

[Tikaru]

You're one of those people who hasn't lived long so far enough to see the sickening cruelty mankind can do aren't you?

You do realise that humanity doesn't even deserve morally, its place in existence with the amount of daily paedophelia, child abuse, murder, rape war and abuse it does every single day?

And you would rate humsn over animals? I wouldn't. How do you know if the human next to you isn't vile? isn't two faced? you don't and you never will know.

Time you took a humility pill. We might use animals, but it doesn't - ever - make us better than them.

Humans are capable of great evil, but we're also capable to do good and great things as well.

I'm not such an emo crybaby that I'll throw all Humans in the same bucket based on the actions of a few. I suppose you'll tell me that your family is just as sickening as the Gestapo, since they're all Humans?

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[unkn0wnerr0r]

Yes most of it is useless but if your drug effects microchodria by blocking the production of ATP then say testing it on a rat will show this where if you tested this on a human you would loose a human life compared to that of a rat. Now imo I'd rather the rat die.

Are you trying to trick me. That's mito =P j/k

Hey I'm not saying animal testing is completely useless, just a large amount of it. Personally I don't ever want to lose a patient, but I know it will happen. Right now I'm set for endocrinology, but I really want to change to infectious disease.

So this is something I've asked myself before. If I have a terminal patient, and there is a new drug out. In modeling that drug shows a 25% chance at saving my patients life, would I want my patient to try it. I think this kind of thing is a very hard decision, because on the one hand my patient is already terminal. It does offer him a 25% chance to save his life. If they haven't done animal testing my patient could die. I really think if the patient was o.k. with it though, I would be too. He knows he's going to die. Maybe he wants his death to mean something.

I don't think many people get that we are faced with problems like this. I mean sure this started out as a discussion about peta, but it does raise some valid issues. Like is computer modeling a viable alternative to animal testing. In my opinion no, but I will also say that animal testing should be done away with when it's not going to produce viable results. I think the generations coming up are going to be faced with some tough decisions about issues like this. Very interesting things to observe.

[Wisp]

I love the people that say "you can survive without eating meat, blah blah blah".

We're omnivores. We have been since the stone age. Whether you like it or not, you're body is FAR better off including meat in your diet (proteins, animal fats as catalysts for vitamin absorption, etc). Wanna stick to eating non meats? Have at it and enjoy your less than healthy lifestyle. Just don't preach it as if it's a good choice.

Well, this is pretty inaccurate. Vegan & vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy; often healthier than diets which include meat or other animal-derived foods.

[glo]

STEM CELL RESEARCH

(I think we need more random fuel for the fire)

[unkn0wnerr0r]

what? so it's cool if you rape dogs lmao? that point is flawed in so many ways.

blah I didn't see that.

No my point is that if you are going to say it's o.k. to kill something because it can't learn physics then you should be o.k. with killing say a person in a coma. If you say you can't kill that person in a coma because they are human, I must question why? What makes a human life intrinsically worth more than an animals? Was Hitler's life worth more than an animals? Throughout history we have people that I don't think their lives are worth more than a cock roach.

I see all sentient life as having an innate value. That's just how I see it. I would no more kill/rape/maim a person in a coma than I would an animal. Yet, I would not hesitate to kill someone like Hitler. That is one of the most interesting parts of being human though, our complex and confusing moral decisions.