Agnosticism is NOT a system of belief.

[Cryostasis]

I'm a pro-theism Atheist, and I disagree with your sentiments. God is a wonderful thing for many people.

Yup - there's one now. A theist.

A "pro-theism atheist"? Let me guess. A regular Glenn Beck watcher? Bill o' Reilly, Sarah Pallin supporter?
Hell, I live in South Africa which has almost as many christians as the USA and just as anal regarding religion and even I know about their stupidity - The stupid is strong with these ones. :P

On the other hand, I suspect you were probably just trolling...

[Deleted]

Saying god does exist is as stupid as saying god doesn't exist because you simply don't know. You can't know. Nobody does.
What does that make me now? I'm confused.

That makes you an agnostic.
I'm also an agnostic I guess, because I feel the same way about god. You can not know.
And OP here is trying to create a paradox.

[Lysah]

Except his classification is cowardice, not indecisiveness. It's not cowardly to choose not to pick a side.

These are two different ideas, expressed in separate ways. We are selectively choosing to focus on different words, here. Dante writes them as the same.

I feel a literature thread coming on.

[Xheoul]

People who can't pick a side suffer a fate worse than most sinners in Hell. I don't disagree with Dante, he was a wise man. That's getting off topic though, I guess.

So a person that can't pick a side, yet is good to everyone else around him/her is destined to suffer more than those who raped or killed or were just all around dicks?

That is some bullshit and you know it.

[Badpaladin]

as always, its hard to get the real information about stuff. news etc is always biased even though it shouldnt be. even science is biased, me learning about certain parts of science makes me ignorant of other parts. the biggest hurdle of science in my believes

Oh I totally agree, that's what I call science with a motive. Withholding or twisting information such that it will fit your prerogative isn't right, but it's unfortunately something we need to deal with. Religion suffers the same problem, which is why it's always under such heavy criticism from people.

[Nexus2089]

I can't say, with 100% confidence, that I believe God exists, thus I'm not a theist. Yet I also can't say, with 100% confidence, that I believe God doesn't exist, thus I'm not an atheist. It follows then, that I possess no knowledge about the existence of God. Thus, agnostic.

This post sums up how i feel on this subject very well. I don't follow organized religion but i haven't ruled out any possibility of a god or gods.

[Sarcasm]

Atheism is a concept and an idea, it is not an absence because it draws a conclusion. It is the opposite of being theistic. Atheism serves to reject theism and so can also be rejected.

It is NOT the opposite of being theistic. Atheism draws NO CONCLUSIONS. It REJECTS conclusions. How is it so hard for some people to understand this?

Let me give a bit of an example.

Imagine I flip a coin and cover the result so neither of us can see it. I tell you "the coin has landed heads up". Because neither of us have any evidence to support that as a fact, logically you reject it. It's not a fact. That does NOT mean that the coin landing tails up is instantly a fact. There are two possible outcomes in this situation (or let's say, two possible religions). You don't have evidence to support either of these outcomes, so you logically you reject them both (making you an atheist). If you had evidence to prove either outcome, then logically you would choose that outcome (making you a theist).

Now imagine you're in a room with 10 other people, each representing a different religion. Each person in turn tells you "my religion is fact". Because none of them have any evidence to support their claims, you reject them. It's not fact. That does NOT mean that the other religions are instantly fact. There are 10 possible outcomes in this situation. You don't have evidence to support any outcome, so logically you reject them all (making you an atheist). If you had evidence to prove an outcome, logically you would choose that outcome (making you a theist).

[pzijderv]

That makes you an agnostic.
I'm also an agnostic I guess, because I feel the same way about god. You can not know.
And OP here is trying to create a paradox.

im failing to see the paradox here, do explain

[zorkuus]

From dictionary.com
atheism - 4 dictionary results
a·the·ism   
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


The first definition here shows that an Athiest is one who is 100% sure that there is no god, not one who is not 100% sure there is a god.

The first definition doesn't make any sense. It cannot be a doctrine because there is no doctrine whatsoever within atheism. Even the second part of the first definition takes it too far and tries to lump all atheists into the gnostic atheist category, which has already been discussed as being a completely different thing than atheism itself in general.

The second definition is also fallacious. Atheism is disbelief in god(s) specifically, not just any supreme beings.

[Krolikn]

Wow, so we have to pick a side or suffer a horrible fate for it. Scawy And here I thought the world had become civilized.

[pzijderv]

The first definition doesn't make any sense. It cannot be a doctrine because there is no doctrine whatsoever within atheism. Even the second part of the first definition takes it too far and tries to lump all atheists into the gnostic atheist category, which has already been discussed as being a completely different thing than atheism itself in general.

The second definition is also fallacious. Atheism is disbelief in god(s) specifically, not just any supreme beings.

random deffinition sites ftw :P

[Badpaladin]

Yup - there's one now. A theist.

A "pro-theism atheist"? Let me guess. A regular Glenn Beck watcher? Bill o' Reilly, Sarah Pallin supporter?
Hell, I live in South Africa which has almost as many christians as the USA and just as anal regarding religion and even I know about their stupidity - The stupid is strong with these ones. :P

On the other hand, I suspect you were probably just trolling...

Moderate democrat that supports capitalism and abortion, checking in.

Your view is highly ignorant, as you assume everybody should be held to your standards of morality. You're suffering the same character flaw as these extremist religious freaks you seem to abhor.

[Sarcasm]

Saying god does exist is as stupid as saying god doesn't exist because you simply don't know. You can't know. Nobody does.
What does that make me now? I'm confused.

It makes you agnostic. But it still doesn't describe whether or not you believe in God's existance (ie. whether you're a theist or an atheist).

[Badpaladin]

These are two different ideas, expressed in separate ways. We are selectively choosing to focus on different words, here. Dante writes them as the same.

That's why it's a good book, but not a good moral lesson.

I feel a literature thread coming on.

So long as it's not about the Twilight Books. Uuugggghghhh

[pzijderv]

Moderate democrat that supports capitalism and abortion, checking in.

Your view is highly ignorant, as you assume everybody should be held to your standards of morality. You're suffering the same fate as these extremist religious freaks you seem to abhor.

this is post is way off topic but i hope nobody minds to much, but what is your view on the new health system that they are trying to put into place in america (people are obligated to have health insurance)? the system has been in place here in holland for years but i dont realy understand why people would not want it.

[MathAddict]

I think such distinctions are lost the general public. Seems silly to me to debate semantics when most people know someone's stance on God if the words believer, agnostic, or atheist are used. Sure, people might not grasp exactly what they are saying technically, but it is silly to wish everyone to be grammar-smiths and definition aficionados. That frame of thinking is akin to saying you must be a mechanic or engineer to drive a car, because if you are to drive a car you must do it in a method that is optimal to operation and function.

[Lysah]

That's why it's a good book, but not a good moral lesson.

So long as it's not about the Twilight Books. Uuugggghghhh

I said literature, not kindling.

[Badpaladin]

this is post is way off topic but i hope nobody minds to much, but what is your view on the new health system that they are trying to put into place in america (people are obligated to have health insurance)? the system has been in place here in holland for years but i dont realy understand why people would not want it.

Sending a PM to answer that.

[Sarcasm]

This post sums up how i feel on this subject very well. I don't follow organized religion but i haven't ruled out any possibility of a god or gods.

The bolded part makes you an atheist. The italicized part makes you an agnostic.

[psdew1813]

good post i myself like to call my self an agnostic simple in that i dont truly believe that there may or may not be some some divine being out there who for some reason has only appeared to ppl 2 thousand years ago. i simply dont buy into religion one damn bit, religion has nothing to offer to me only a set of rules to where i cant do this or i can do that this way so i dont piss of some asshole living in the sky who has had no real effect on my life AT ALL