Elemental FAQ (updated for 4.3)

[Radux]

I guess simcraft doesn't model the FE precisely the way we would use it on a fight (lined with procs etc).

You can change the priority in the Action Priority to have it do this. Most combinations I played with while attempting to line up procs ended up having me lose dps in the Sim.

[Jenerena]

I'll presume it's definitely worth going for then, I get that general feeling from posters here anyway. Just a pain I'm going to have to presume things, and do some analysing of logs to see how much it actually benefits me.

[Radux]

Yeah but lining up procs can still lose you dps. Like if you wait ~10 seconds to activate your Synapse Springs to wait for a PT proc, I doubt the dps gain from FE will outweigh the potential lost dps. Of course I have no way to directly prove that, but Simming similar situations has shown to be pretty consistent with that mindset.

[Fudruker]

so i have a question that has been tossed around in my brain for the past month or so. when hero is used is it really useful to still use one GCD on UE instead of just spamming LB until LVB comes off CD? since my LB is under 1sec when hero is used.

[Endus]

It's almost never worthwhile to use UE if you could LB instead. Once you've got LB down to the duration of a GCD, this is even more true than when it has a longer cast time than UE's GCD.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, short question here:

Is it worth to upgrade my 359 set shoulders with the 378 shoulders obtained from Alysrazor?
I lose the T11 2 piece bonus.
Unfortunately I cannot find any numbers anymore about the dps increase from the 2 piece bonus. Of course it cant be that high - only a decent increase but still.

Thank you for your opinion!

[Mr.Pineapple]

Hey endus, i was curious about your values with the extremely soft haste caps in your blip about haste in the stats section. my short time google searching has come up with lacklustre results (most of which pointed me to your guide, or other people asking simmilar questions). i would love to see a full table/source article that i'm assuming came from totemspot, especially one that looks like the resto druid tables that seem to be everywhere.

Resto table for reference: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...Hc&hl=en#gid=0

Taken from the mmo-champ resto druid guide. ty myrrar for finding this and to tangedyn who made it.

**************************EDIT*******************************

found one: http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t110309-...atch_4_2_a/p2/

article #40: % numbers are acurate as of 4.0.1 it looks like, but the ratings values seem way off as i have 1787 (13.95% unbuffed) haste and that doesn't match the chart at all. (possibly just me, and in my current state of rum consumption, my maths are not so good.)

[Pope]

I'm not sure, but do I fail to see your question?
Do you ask if haste has any significant caps, where it changes its value?
Eltist Jerks says: No. (At least not with the numbers we can achieve.)
http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t110309-..._a/#Haste_Caps

We'll see definite changes in the value of haste rating at 50% and 100% haste. But that's a huge number.
Neither the ticks of Flameshock, nor the influence of Elemental Mastery seems to have an effect on the value of Haste Rating.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...PSoverview.png

That's what I gathered.

(Before anyone asks: with "influence of elemental mastery" I meant the point where we reach 50% spellhaste with WoA and Elemental Mastery up. That would be 2440 Rating, if my calculations are right.)

[masanbol]

I'm not sure, but do I fail to see your question?
Do you ask if haste has any significant caps, where it changes its value?
Eltist Jerks says: No. (At least not with the numbers we can achieve.)

We'll see definite changes in the value of haste rating at 50% and 100% haste. But that's a huge number.
Neither the ticks of Flameshock, nor the influence of Elemental Mastery seems to have an effect on the value of Haste Rating.

That's what I gathered.

(Before anyone asks: with "influence of elemental mastery" I meant the point where we reach 50% spellhaste with WoA and Elemental Mastery up. That would be 2440 Rating, if my calculations are right.)

That graph is a little old (it was made towards the end of ToC in Wrath), although the point it delivers is still true. There are no "target" haste values, and despite certain plateaus where new DoT ticks are added, haste will continue to benefit us until well past the current tier's achievable haste rating.

[Sarevokcz]

(Before anyone asks: with "influence of elemental mastery" I meant the point where we reach 50% spellhaste with WoA and Elemental Mastery up. That would be 2440 Rating, if my calculations are right.)

Thats... not really hat big number, I am sitting at 2200 or so and I have yet to get majority of my FL drops. But the truth is, at that rating, LvB and ES/Fulmi stop getting any benefit for about 20% of the time (while EM is up) and already not getting that much benefit from BL, since its even more powerful haste buff and considering those two easily do more than 30% of our personal damage.... Well I would be surprised if Mastery wasnt just straight out better at 2440 haste rating, since at that point, only things fully benefiting from it are FlS and LB.

[Endus]

That graph is a little old (it was made towards the end of ToC in Wrath), although the point it delivers is still true. There are no "target" haste values, and despite certain plateaus where new DoT ticks are added, haste will continue to benefit us until well past the current tier's achievable haste rating.

We just hashed this out in another thread, when someone posted a sim profile which was showing Haste being almost 25% better than Mastery; ~1.95 dps per point with Mastery at ~1.45 (going from memory). I ran some sims with that and the actual BiS profile, and managed to figure out that he was a few points away from the next haste plateau for Flame Shock. The problem is, unless you're simming with your exact raid buff setup and current gear, it's not possible to state precisely where those are (you can as a percent of haste, but not how much you need to be sitting there in the raid, if you see the difference). And even then, it only affects the value of haste for that narrow window; if you could Reforge a piece of Mastery gear to add enough Haste to hit that breakpoint, it's probably worthwhile, but reforging multiple pieces to achieve it isn't going to help; it's not that the value of haste is that much higher, it's that when you're ~20 points from the cap, the value is that much higher.

In the current BiS sims, which have our Haste rating sitting at 28% (above the 27.78% plateau I'm talking about), the value for Haste and Mastery is still so close that they're basically equal. The next FS plateau will be at 38.89%, and there's no way we're hitting that this tier. Past that, you're looking at 50%, which would be a golden point both because of how it affects our spellcasts vs gcd, and it's the next FS breakpoint too.

And if you're not butting up against those caps in-raid, they don't matter for gearing purposes.

[Jenerena]

I'm wondering if I'm also approaching a haste breakpoint, as my haste scale is 1.7, with mastery at 1.4 (or maybe 1.5 can't remember). There's not much I can do to squeeze more haste out of my gear, other than wait for more drops.

Also, regarding the LvB/LB glyphs, LvB is simming at about 50 dps more than LB. Just thought I'd let you all know though this may vary depending on gear level. This was true for both a patchwerk and HS fights, and for 450 and 500 second lengths.

[Endus]

I'm wondering if I'm also approaching a haste breakpoint, as my haste scale is 1.7, with mastery at 1.4 (or maybe 1.5 can't remember). There's not much I can do to squeeze more haste out of my gear, other than wait for more drops.

Probably. Don't worry much about it; the actual DPS contribution is pretty minimal, it gets exaggerated because simulationcraft is looking at the value of the next 10 points, seeing it would put you over the jump, and ignoring that every point PAST that is back to Haste's normal contribution; once you spread the value out over the rest of the stats, it evens out pretty much entirely.

Also, regarding the LvB/LB glyphs, LvB is simming at about 50 dps more than LB. Just thought I'd let you all know though this may vary depending on gear level. This was true for both a patchwerk and HS fights, and for 450 and 500 second lengths.

Precisely which one is better depends on a lot of factors. For instance, if you can't stop moving to handle a Lava Surge proc so you fire an LB on the move instead, you're swinging towards valuing LB. Our 4-piece will mitigate that somewhat, but not eliminate it completely. In practice, 50 DPS here and there isn't going to matter THAT much.

[Jenerena]

Precisely which one is better depends on a lot of factors. For instance, if you can't stop moving to handle a Lava Surge proc so you fire an LB on the move instead, you're swinging towards valuing LB. Our 4-piece will mitigate that somewhat, but not eliminate it completely. In practice, 50 DPS here and there isn't going to matter THAT much.

Well no of course not. The only fight where I can honestly say I can't afford to stop and cast LvB, is Ragnaros. There aren't many occasions when fire underneath me happens just as I get lvb. Even so, SWG is quite underused as it is so I can quite easily pop it on those occasions. The safer option is probably LB though, but I'm inclined to use LvB because 50 dps does add up over a 450 sec fight (22.5k damage), and I am known for min/maxing wherever I can.

[Mr.Pineapple]

In the current BiS sims, which have our Haste rating sitting at 28% (above the 27.78% plateau I'm talking about), the value for Haste and Mastery is still so close that they're basically equal. The next FS plateau will be at 38.89%, and there's no way we're hitting that this tier. Past that, you're looking at 50%, which would be a golden point both because of how it affects our spellcasts vs gcd, and it's the next FS breakpoint too.

And if you're not butting up against those caps in-raid, they don't matter for gearing purposes.

i don't think i'm close to the 27.78 plateau, whats the one below it? should be around 19% raidbuffed right?

[Radux]

i don't think i'm close to the 27.78 plateau, whats the one below it? should be around 19% raidbuffed right?

Taken from the Haste section under stats:

and the second is at 16.67%, for 11 ticks.

[Pope]

Thats... not really hat big number, I am sitting at 2200 or so and I have yet to get majority of my FL drops. But the truth is, at that rating, LvB and ES/Fulmi stop getting any benefit for about 20% of the time (while EM is up) and already not getting that much benefit from BL, since its even more powerful haste buff and considering those two easily do more than 30% of our personal damage.... Well I would be surprised if Mastery wasnt just straight out better at 2440 haste rating, since at that point, only things fully benefiting from it are FlS and LB.

Oh, I didn't say that this was a big number, I just said that 50% and 100% are big numbers.
I'm actually more an inactive theorycrafter, (who never played elemental *cough*), so I don't even know how much uptime EM has. (Don't tear me apart, please.)

[Deleted]

Did someone make a 100% confirmation, that spirit affects the Fire Elemental's hit chance? Im sorry if I missed it, while just skimming the pages quickly.

[faluchitox]

Any test on orc racial scaling with fire ele dmg?? If this works isnt BF toping the racials?

[Swisted]

With the recent buff, should CL be worked into our rotation?