What should my DPS be at ilvl 349? In heroics? On single targets in raids?

[wtfpwndd]

Apparently I have a 347 ilvl. Not 349.

Here is my armory:

Armory

I ask because I'm being out DPSd by a mage and warlock in my guild with a much lower ilvl! I'm following the sticky guide as close as I can tell but I have a hard time swallowing that a (well played) warlock can out DPS me with an ilvl 10 points lower than mine. The mage had an ilvl 6 points lower than mine. I must therefore be doing something wrong..

[Ciseal]

Your gear looks good, you're missing 2 enchants, your glyphs are good, you talent tree is fine, your professions offer no major DPS bonuses. Seems like it may be just an issue with your rotation.

[OnlineSamantha]

Yes, knowing your rotation would help.

[Deleted]

I see no problem since they are pure dps classes. Played well I guess it's fair they outdps you.

Hibrid tax is a bitch I know.

[Deleted]

In raids you should be about 11-12k? I'm not sure, but that should be about the mark. People are pulling 22k regularly with 359 gear in my guild.

[Sylvaneart]

What is your DPS on chim? What is the mage and lock on same fight? Are you getting tricks? Are you getting DI? The lock is getting DI. Have a log? What is your up time on bleeds? Are we talking about your feral spec or boom?

[Inferis]

DPSing is more than rotation and pressing the right buttons at the right time - it's also a lot about keeping as much uptime as possible to dps. That means minimizing movement and damaging while moving if possible. Also in the case of a moonkin, make sure to keep DoT's up at all time. It's better to override your own DoT's than it is not casting anything at any possible time.

[Veiovis]

Apparently I have a 347 ilvl. Not 349.

Here is my armory:



I ask because I'm being out DPSd by a mage and warlock in my guild with a much lower ilvl! I'm following the sticky guide as close as I can tell but I have a hard time swallowing that a (well played) warlock can out DPS me with an ilvl 10 points lower than mine. The mage had an ilvl 6 points lower than mine. I must therefore be doing something wrong..

Assuming full class balance and you say the other guy is under geared compared to you then yes you are doing something wrong. Now that said, there is no way to know. Is the mage a fire or arcane? Is the fight(s) in question single target or multi-targets? There are so many factors. I have an 85 mage and he does massive dmg in a boss fight with a lot of adds because he is a fire mage but doesn't do as well, stacked up against other classes with similar gear on single target fights.

At any rate I suggest you read the article from EJ on Balance (elitistjerks DOT com/f73/t110353-[balance]_cataclysm_release_updated_4_0_6_a). It is really good and explains the rotation thoroughly.

By the way I have an 85 balance Druid also. The gear and spec looks fine it has to be your rotation like the others said.

[Meejum]

Hybrid tax doesn't exist anymore.

Moonkins got overbuffed 2 or 3 weeks ago and have since been overnerfed (probably). You saying you are losing out to a mage or a warlock with less avg ilvl then you doesn't surprise me right now.

That said, Sorrowsong isnt that great of a trinket, and you should fill out those other enchants. Perseverance does absolutely nothing for your damage output, also, and I would drop those points into BoTG, unless you absolutely need the damage reduction for a raid.

[wtfpwndd]

Thanks for the replies. I am doing ~12k on raids without much movement. heroic trash, without any LFD buffs, I do ~10k-13k depending.

For single target fights, I open with trees followed by Starfall then insect swarm, moonfire, starsurge, then spam wrath or starfire depending on where my eclipse bar is.

Once I hit an eclipse I spam the opposite nuke. I reapply dots if they run out OR if eclipse is about to change and dots have less than 5 seconds.

I cast Starfall on every CD. If I know hero is going to be popped near the beginning, I'll hold trees until that point.

I also cast Starsurge on every CD, including when the instant version procs.

If I have to move, I spam moonfire the entire way as well as instant starsurges.

For AoE:

I Typhoon then moonfire/swarm everything then hurricane.

The warlock does around 11k on a raid boss and his ilvl is only 339!

[ymmv]

Learn to use mushrooms for AOE. Try to plan in advanced. Mushrooms are one of our strongest AOEs.

[teddabear]

Balance DPS is competitive with anybody. If you are getting outdps'd by people in less gear it is a performance issue. Feral on the other hand is a good 3k below several specs.

[Deleted]

OP: Go check out the moonkin guide stickied on these forums - read the rotation and note here if you are doing something that doesn't stick to the rotation. Thats probably your first hint for a good change.

Second, don't worry too much about item level and DPS. You guys are largely in blue gear, and it is probably a mish mash of what you can gather. As you all level up your gear, and you get more experience with bosses, DPS will increase as well.

How much is he out DPSing you with anyways? Don't worry about a 1k difference. Heck, I don't even care that there is sometimes a 5k difference between myself and the top DPSers on a particular fight. Some fights favor some classes more than others, but we are generally in a very good place. And unless you are wiping to enrage timers, DPS is a secondary concern. Executing the encounters correctly is much more important.

I see no problem since they are pure dps classes. Played well I guess it's fair they outdps you.

Hibrid tax is a bitch I know.

There is no such thing as a hybrid tax. The rest of us compete just fine with "pure" classes.

What is your DPS on chim? What is the mage and lock on same fight? Are you getting tricks? Are you getting DI? The lock is getting DI. Have a log? What is your up time on bleeds? Are we talking about your feral spec or boom?

Chim is not a great fight to compare DPS (no current fights are, for that matter), because of the hit debuff. Also, warlocks wont be putting DI on each other, since it doesn't stack.

Hybrid tax doesn't exist anymore.

Moonkins got overbuffed 2 or 3 weeks ago and have since been overnerfed (probably). You saying you are losing out to a mage or a warlock with less avg ilvl then you doesn't surprise me right now.

That said, Sorrowsong isnt that great of a trinket, and you should fill out those other enchants. Perseverance does absolutely nothing for your damage output, also, and I would drop those points into BoTG, unless you absolutely need the damage reduction for a raid.

We got buffed, then nerfed, then nerfed some more, then buffed. We are currently stronger than we were before the patch.

[Spectral]

People that blame their DPS on their class, as Boomkins are bad and will continue to be bad because they're excuse makers that have no desire to excel. The actual evidence says the Balance competes with everything in the game right now -

http://stateofdps.com/

If you're losing to people, it's because they're outplaying you.

[wtfpwndd]

People that blame their DPS on their class, as Boomkins are bad and will continue to be bad because they're excuse makers that have no desire to excel. The actual evidence says the Balance competes with everything in the game right now -

http://stateofdps.com/

If you're losing to people, it's because they're outplaying you.

If you read the OP you'd know that that is the whole reason for this thread. I figure it's not a class issue. With that said, stateofdps shows optimal gear, I'd imagine. I wonder if Boomkin's rate of growth in terms of DPS is higher than other classes.

Regardless, I've looked at the sticky and I pretty much follow it. I just don't know how to beat him!

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If you read the OP you'd know that that is the whole reason for this thread. I figure it's not a class issue. With that said, stateofdps shows optimal gear, I'd imagine. I wonder if Boomkin's rate of growth in terms of DPS is higher than other classes.

Regardless, I've looked at the sticky and I pretty much follow it. I just don't know how to beat him!

while optimal gear is shown at stateofdps.com gear scaling up to that point isnt going to deflect much on the dps ranks unless the player is clipping dots, has to move alot (encounter specific factors) and/or procs/gear.

Loosing dps meters to people with less ilvl than you might have nothing to do with you and all to do with the encounter, lag, procs that you get or the others get and so on. Also the "skill" of dps isn only measured out of the effective damage done or dps he or she deals. Movement, healing and other class spesific things like that makes a class/spec more valuable to a raid thant others.
For instance a moonkin kan throw out emergancy heals, innervate and tranquity aswell as a combat ress. No hunters or mages can do that.

[y02mustang]

Just as one more tidbit, I read somewhere (possibly the stickied thread) that treants can gain from your haste. So, I open with MF and IS, then treants so they get the NG haste, then starsurge/starfall etc. Also, mushrooms more, especially on the move if the boss is stationary (or larva on Magmaw, etc) since it's instant cast now. Mega damage on those little guys, I try to keep the detonate on CD if positioning allows it and there's lots of adds.

As Huntingbear pointed out, druids also have a lot of utility to bring. Your dps might not be top, but you can root/solar beam/brez at a critical moment which means more than a bit more damage if it means saving a healer from having his face smashed, interrupting a cast (or a bunch of casting mobs gathered together) or brez'ing the top DPS to bring him back to the fight. As long as you're pulling average DPS (not forcing anyone to "carry" you) and playing the role requested of you in the encounter, I'd say it's all good.

Talent-wise, unless you find yourself low in health a lot and taking up healer's mana, I'd drop perserverance and put some points in Owlkin Frenzy, that might also up your DPS. On encounters where you get party- or raid-wide damage, that can proc quite often. If you don't need to cast innervate on yourself (or mainly are asked to cast it on healers), then take the points out of Dreamstate, add your third to Owlkin and fill out Furor.

Just my .02

[Spectral]

If you read the OP you'd know that that is the whole reason for this thread. I figure it's not a class issue. With that said, stateofdps shows optimal gear, I'd imagine. I wonder if Boomkin's rate of growth in terms of DPS is higher than other classes.

Regardless, I've looked at the sticky and I pretty much follow it. I just don't know how to beat him!

I had absolutely no intention of bagging on you OP, and I'm sorry if It came across that way. What I said was intended purely for people in the thread saying things that would indicate we can't compete. Your thread is reasonable, admirable, and shouldn't be the target of anyone's ire. Best of luck to you!

[Deleted]

Just as one more tidbit, I read somewhere (possibly the stickied thread) that treants can gain from your haste. So, I open with MF and IS, then treants so they get the NG haste, then starsurge/starfall etc. Also, mushrooms more, especially on the move if the boss is stationary (or larva on Magmaw, etc) since it's instant cast now. Mega damage on those little guys, I try to keep the detonate on CD if positioning allows it and there's lots of adds.
Just my .02

I'm going to have to ask you to back this up with a source. I haven't seen anything that indicates that treants are affected by your haste. Bloodlust affects them, sure, but only if the treants are active when BL is cast. I do believe that NG and similar haste procs does not affect treants - I'll gladly test it when I get home though.

[Palegod]

He sort of has the right idea, but the wrong stat--haste does not get passed to them, but their AP does scale from your current SP. I see a lot of druids use them the second the fight starts, instead of waiting a few seconds for Power Torrent/DMC: Volcano/Lightweave etc. to proc and THEN using them. Chug a volcanic potion just before the tank pulls and you're looking at potentially casting your treants with an extra 4074 int.

Also hit rating from items *only* (no talents, so spirit doesn't count) is transferred to the trees as both hit and expertise. If you don't offspec heal often, reforge to hit instead of spirit while going for the cap.


Edit: As for the original question, the first thing I always ask people is, "What is your framerate in raids?" Blizzard's half-assed spell queuing is a band aid fix at best for people with slow computers, especially since very few people seem aware that it exists let alone know how to configure it to work best with their connection. I got stuck raiding on an old computer due to hardware failure for a while, and fps drops to around 10 or so easily cost me 20-25% of my usual dps.