Weren't they done yet? (barrier nerf)

[Avalastia]

that looked like a qq post, that smelled like a QQ post, that heard like a QQ post, oh wait.... that was a QQ post !

stop whine, Disc are OP as raid healers it is a fact. I play disc because Holy is terribly worst than disc for the moment. I assume that PW:S during 15 sec instead of 30 will be a great change.
barrier is still great.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Holy is vastly superior to Disc as far as raid healing in pretty much every way, shape and form. Just by the nature of Echo of Light, Holy is better at raid healing. The only thing that Disc brings is Power Word: Barrier, which is a HUGE cooldown. It's probably one of the best in the game currently, which is probably the reason its getting nerfed.

Am I happy about it? No. Do I understand it? Yes.

However, Holy in Chakra: Sanctuary is so insanely good at raid healing right now, I would almost argue that its completely overpowered. Doing H Chimaeron and bringing the whole raid above 10k post massacre in the space of about 4 seconds is incredibly crazy.

[Siri]

A very small radius that we had no problems getting into every single time on a movement heavy part of a movement heavy fight (heroic conclave, stacking for the Nezir platform ultimate). Yeah, I've been running into PW: Barriers for a while now -- the size is not nearly an issue.

Just to give you an example of why you're wrong.
Last phase of Maloriak, he does poison nova and you want to use barrier for it. Oops, absolute zero spawned the barrier and it's now useless.
There's more fights where this happens, saying it's not an issue just means you weren't thinking.

I also guess that Nefarian the best example, and definitely not even disputable. DG covers ALL THREE platforms, PW:B can never cover more than a third of your raid.

[Belloc]

In our 10man we don't have prot paladin, no holy paldin and no warriors ! so this nerf is not justified just because we could stack those clases, we simply don't have them in raid setup

Then recruit them. It's not Blizzard's fault that you don't have a balanced raid. Oh, and if you're talking about normal mode... then you don't even need raid survival cooldowns for normal modes. Those fights are tuned to be "a joke" as far as raid comp requirements go.

Just to give you an example of why you're wrong.
Last phase of Maloriak, he does poison nova and you want to use barrier for it. Oops, absolute zero spawned the barrier and it's now useless.
There's more fights where this happens, saying it's not an issue just means you weren't thinking.

I also guess that Nefarian the best example, and definitely not even disputable. DG covers ALL THREE platforms, PW:B can never cover more than a third of your raid.

What, do you think I'm not raiding these encounters? Look at my armory, I've killed heroic Maloriak. It won't be long before I kill heroic Nefarian. And, yes, I'm in a 10-man guild.

So, for Maloriak... he uses Acid Nova, what, 3 times for a group with acceptable dps? In all honesty, I can't remember the last time I saw a Barrier go up during that phase. Hell, last week our disc priest died before the final phase and we had to two heal it. Yes, we 2-healed Acid Nova on heroic. It's not nearly as big a deal as you are suggesting. Furthermore, Absolute Zero spawns underneath players. If you have everyone stacked up dead-center in a Barrier, then of course you're going to have problems.. Have them stack up along the rim and you will have plenty of room to move to the other side. I guess that means I am actually thinking, eh?

Nefarian? You don't even have to push an Electrocute during the air phase... and everyone is stacked up during ground phases. Oh, and let's not forget that the Nature Resistance granted from a shaman's totem is more important than a Divine Guardian or Barrier. So, you want to push an electrocute during the air phase without a divine guardian? Hunter resistance aura on one platform, shaman totem on another, PW: Barrier on the last one. So, now you have two choices: Don't push an electrocute during air phase... or use the proper abilities when doing so.

Seriously, do you guys think that you're the only ones raiding this content? Do you think that I'm posting here with no concept of how these abilities work and how these fights work? Because I'm pretty sure that I have more of an idea of what I'm talking about with regard to raid encounters than some of you do. Then again, we've been figuring out how to defeat these bosses without having to read the strategies somewhere else.

edit: Removed some of the ruder things I said... because as much as the posters here infuriate me, I don't want to be a dick.

[Liliyah]

A very small radius that we had no problems getting into every single time on a movement heavy part of a movement heavy fight (heroic conclave, stacking for the Nezir platform ultimate). Yeah, I've been running into PW: Barriers for a while now -- the size is not nearly an issue.

Omnitron - People aren't necessarily all stacked up for the Incineration Security Measure.
Magmaw - I can barrier ranged, or melee.
Nef - I can barrier a platform and cover 1/3 of my raid. Wow.
Halfus - I drop a barrier, everyone clumps. Oh, wait, fireball barrage right in the barrier. Sorry.
Ascendant council - Who do I barrier? The melee who are going to walk right out of it in a few seconds? Or the 3-4 ranged I can manage to get?


Barrier is nice for moments on fights where heavy damage is incoming and people are able to stack up, but that's simply not representative of every fight.

[Abandon]

Then recruit them. It's not Blizzard's fault that you don't have a balanced raid. Oh, and if you're talking about normal mode... then you don't even need raid survival cooldowns for normal modes. Those fights are tuned to be "a joke" as far as raid comp requirements go.

Sorry, but this advice is just plain stupid. Are you honestly saying that they should kick out their friends from their raiding core in order to bring in someone who happens to be of another class which has a cooldown that they need? Does that seem to fit with that wonderful "Bring the Player, not the Class" philosiphy that they have been describing for the last few months?

You are either saying that they should be stacking classes so this nerf won't matter since they can use other raid cooldowns, or they should be able to do these encounters without any raid cooldowns and so the nerf doesn't matter because of that.

Not everyone is doing hardmodes, no raiding encounter is tuned to be "a joke" at the moment unless you outgear it. Your elitism and smugness are not really adding anything to the discussion.

[Belloc]

Omnitron - People aren't necessarily all stacked up for the Incineration Security Measure.
Magmaw - I can barrier ranged, or melee.
Nef - I can barrier a platform and cover 1/3 of my raid. Wow.
Halfus - I drop a barrier, everyone clumps. Oh, wait, fireball barrage right in the barrier. Sorry.
Ascendant council - Who do I barrier? The melee who are going to walk right out of it in a few seconds? Or the 3-4 ranged I can manage to get?




Barrier is nice for moments on fights where heavy damage is incoming and people are able to stack up, but that's simply not representative of every fight.

Omnotron: good luck killing heroic omnotron if your raid can't stack under a barrier. Yes, everyone is under the barrier every time when we do heroic Omnotron. You're wrong.

Magmaw: Or you can learn to position. You only need one person at ranged to act as a Parasite beacon. You can have the other 9 people in your raid stacked in melee. If you're talking about heroic, then you better learn how to stack and spread, because it's not hard.

Halfus: The only times you should ever be using barrier on this fight is either on the tanks (since they're the only ones tanking dangerous damage) or on the raid during the breath, during which fireball barrage stops. Sorry, but you clearly don't understand how this fight works.

Ascendant Council: When exactly would you want to use barrier, anyway? There's no need for raid survival cooldowns during the first two phases... so, the last phase? You have a kite path, right? You have ability timers, right? Ok, so, let's assume that we don't have to worry about the explosions or the gravity crush... that just leaves the chain lightning. Watch the tank -- is he about to reposition the boss? Alright, drop a barrier a little behind him. Bam, you now have a fresh barrier that your tank and melee can all get full use out of. Congratulations... not that you needed it in the first place.

Nefarian: You don't need to push an electrocute during the air phase. Wow.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 05:06 PM ----------

Sorry, but this advice is just plain stupid. Are you honestly saying that they should kick out their friends from their raiding core in order to bring in someone who happens to be of another class which has a cooldown that they need? Does that seem to fit with that wonderful "Bring the Player, not the Class" philosiphy that they have been describing for the last few months?

"Bring the player, not the class" has never applied to heroic modes and it never will. You're damn right I think they should recruit players for a heroic raid. Hey, guess what, my fellow raiders enjoy playing with me and I enjoy playing with them, but if I have to sit out for a fight or two I'm not going to cry about it.

If you have a normal mode raid, then don't even bother arguing -- you don't need PW: Barrier for any normal mode fight.

Oh, also: the entire point of "bring the player, not the class" was that they provided a more even distribution of raid buffs. It never meant, even for normal modes, that you could bring whoever you wanted and expect to be able to clear content. If you bring 2 ret paladins, 2 destro warlocks, and a feral druid for your dps, 2 resto druids and a holy priest for your heals, and a DK and Feral tank, you shouldn't expect to succeed. "Bring the player, not the class" doesn't mean that you can bring a shitty raid.

[Abandon]

"Bring the player, not the class" has never applied to heroic modes and it never will. You're damn right I think they should recruit players for a heroic raid. Hey, guess what, my fellow raiders enjoy playing with me and I enjoy playing with them, but if I have to sit out for a fight or two I'm not going to cry about it.

If you have a normal mode raid, then don't even bother arguing -- you don't need PW: Barrier for any normal mode fight.

You wouldn't be a dear and find me a Blue post saying that, would you? And when you come back and haven't found any, you could explain why Power Word: Barrier is not needed on any Normal Mode fight, because apparently in Normal Modes there is no AoE damage. And also how if you are doing 10man Normal modes you are clearly guaranteed to outgear it to the point that you don't need to use any cooldowns.

Oh, also: the entire point of "bring the player, not the class" was that they provided a more even distribution of raid buffs. It never meant, even for normal modes, that you could bring whoever you wanted and expect to be able to clear content. If you bring 2 ret paladins, 2 destro warlocks, and a feral druid for your dps, 2 resto druids and a holy priest for your heals, and a DK and Feral tank, you shouldn't expect to succeed. "Bring the player, not the class" doesn't mean that you can bring a shitty raid.

Actually, the "entire point" was so you would not be required to take specific classes to your raid because of a specific raid buff or ability they have. Like bringing Shamans for Bloodlust. Which sounds a lot like bringing a Warrior just for their new cooldown.

[Siri]

So, for Maloriak... he uses Acid Nova, what, 3 times for a group with acceptable dps? In all honesty, I can't remember the last time I saw a Barrier go up during that phase. Hell, last week our disc priest died before the final phase and we had to two heal it. Yes, we 2-healed Acid Nova on heroic. It's not nearly as big a deal as you are suggesting. Furthermore, Absolute Zero spawns underneath players. If you have everyone stacked up dead-center in a Barrier, then of course you're going to have problems.. Have them stack up along the rim and you will have plenty of room to move to the other side. I guess that means I am actually thinking, eh?

Nefarian? You don't even have to push an Electrocute during the air phase... and everyone is stacked up during ground phases. Oh, and let's not forget that the Nature Resistance granted from a shaman's totem is more important than a Divine Guardian or Barrier. So, you want to push an electrocute during the air phase without a divine guardian? Hunter resistance aura on one platform, shaman totem on another, PW: Barrier on the last one. So, now you have two choices: Don't push an electrocute during air phase... or use the proper abilities when doing so

The absolute zeroes move, it potentially doesn't matter if people were standing on the edge of the barrier.

And you don't need barrier for any other encounter either, doesn't mean it isn't a boon to have it. Nothing you're saying is relevant for the comparison of DG vs PW:B. And no, Aspect of the Wild and the resistance totem doesn't reduce electrocute as much as PW:B does, especially not when you probably already have motw or bok. The rest of the damage in that phase is not nature damage.

Also, you don't have to push electrocutes during the air phase, but it makes p3 easier if you can.

I can keep listing abilities you can't group up for but it's useless because you don't really know what you're saying anyway

[Belloc]

You wouldn't be a dear and find me a Blue post saying that, would you? And when you come back and haven't found any, you could explain why Power Word: Barrier is not needed on any Normal Mode fight, because apparently in Normal Modes there is no AoE damage. And also how if you are doing 10man Normal modes you are clearly guaranteed to outgear it to the point that you don't need to use any cooldowns.

Bring the player, not the class was introduced in WotLK. Do you remember heroic 25-man Anub? Do you remember how it required 1-2 block tanks in order to handle the adds? Bring the player, not the class.

Heroic LK at 5-10% buff. Bring the player, not the class.

25-man Instructor Razuvious. Bring the player, not the class.

So, you want blue posts? Well that's going to be hard, considering the fact that any blue post I could've provided was lost in the transition to the new forums. Sorry! But I can provide this:

In fact, the development teams learn a lot about class balance by watching us play the content. GC mentions that they expect Ulduar, specifically in heroic mode, "to shine a much harsher light on class balance."

Like I said, "bring the player, not the class" was meant as a way to provide a more even distribution of raid buffs. It has never meant that you could bring whoever you wanted to your raid and succeed. If that were the case, every fight would be a total joke by stacking certain classes, and that is simply not the case.

On the topic of PW: Barrier in normal modes... when do you need it? The AOE damage isn't absurdly high on normal modes. We didn't even have a disc priest until we started working on heroic modes. Yes, the fights are absolutely going to be harder without a barrier/divine guardian, but nowhere near impossible.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 05:36 PM ----------

The absolute zeroes move, it potentially doesn't matter if people were standing on the edge of the barrier.

And you don't need barrier for any other encounter either, doesn't mean it isn't a boon to have it. Nothing you're saying is relevant for the comparison of DG vs PW:B. And no, Aspect of the Wild and the resistance totem doesn't reduce electrocute as much as PW:B does, especially not when you probably already have motw or bok. The rest of the damage in that phase is not nature damage.

Also, you don't have to push electrocutes during the air phase, but it makes p3 easier if you can.

I can keep listing abilities you can't group up for but it's useless because you don't really know what you're saying anyway

Yes, the absolute zero moves. Slowly. I've had absolute zero spawn in a barrier before and it didn't force me to leave the barrier.

The amount of nature resistance you have with aspect/totem provides roughly a 25% damage reduction. I'd say that's close enough.

Feel free to keep listing abilities, I don't mind. I'm not the one complaining about gaining a minute on the cooldown and losing 5% damage reduction.

But, since you insist, I can think of reliable, safe ways to use Barrier on Heroic Halfus, Heroic V&T, Council, Heroic Cho'gall, Heroic Omnotron, Heroic Magmaw, Heroic Maloriak, Heroic Chimaeron, Heroic Atramedes, Heroic Nefarian, Heroic Conclave of Wind, and Heroic Al'Akir. Yes, that's all of the fights. I'm sure if we were on Sinestra, I could find a use for it there, too. Would you like me to start listing the uses that your disc priest should already know? I don't usually tell people how to play their class, but apparently you guys need some help.

[Abandon]

Well let me help:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...the-class-heal

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...-not-the-class

Here are some highlights:

We didn't want players to feel like they had to exclude other players that they wanted to bring based on the need to min/max certain buffs per group.

Saying that a buff isn’t useful because every raid *always* has some other spec is not persuasive in our minds because we are explicitly designing around the assumption that you may not have one of every spec.

And for your 25-man Instructor Raz example:

(Minus a few gimmick encounters like Raz that we are carefully evaluating.)

Also, the quote you found? It says that Ulduar Heroic Modes will shine a much harsher light on Class Balance. As in the balance between different classes. I would imagine so that one is not far ahead of any others, or behind and only being brought for a raid buff they provide. I could be wrong though.

On the topic of PW: Barrier in normal modes... when do you need it? The AOE damage isn't absurdly high on normal modes. We didn't even have a disc priest until we started working on heroic modes. Yes, the fights are absolutely going to be harder without a barrier/divine guardian, but nowhere near impossible.

You don't need it anywhere, the same way you don't need any specific ability or cooldown in the game anywhere. AoE damage isn't absurdly high, however if you are in Normal Modes you might want to consider that they are not amazingly well geared, and so their healing and mana regen will be lower than yours, meaning they will need it in order to heal effectively without going OOM or having people die. I am sure for you healing 10man normal modes would provide no challenge even without using Power Word: Barrier, since as you mentioned you are currently progressing through Hardmodes, but remember there are other people playing this game as well and this change affects them too.

[Liliyah]

Omnotron: good luck killing heroic omnotron if your raid can't stack under a barrier. Yes, everyone is under the barrier every time when we do heroic Omnotron. You're wrong.

My guild has killed Heroic Omnitron 9 times, according to the armory stats. We're usually all stacked for the first Incineration, but the second is very meh. Some of us ranged are standing in the pools(if they're up), melee are off chasing the newly activated tron...

Magmaw: Or you can learn to position. You only need one person at ranged to act as a Parasite beacon. You can have the other 9 people in your raid stacked in melee. If you're talking about heroic, then you better learn how to stack and spread, because it's not hard.

25 man guild and yes, I'm talking about heroic. Your suggestion that we should stack & spread is retarded. Lost dps and, in the last phase, unnecessary damage since those shadow nukes have splash damage.

Halfus: The only times you should ever be using barrier on this fight is either on the tanks (since they're the only ones tanking dangerous damage) or on the raid during the breath, during which fireball barrage stops. Sorry, but you clearly don't understand how this fight works.

I was more thinking of reducing raid damage during the roar for shits and giggles. Our tanks have their own CDs to pop.

Ascendant Council: When exactly would you want to use barrier, anyway? There's no need for raid survival cooldowns during the first two phases... so, the last phase? You have a kite path, right? You have ability timers, right? Ok, so, let's assume that we don't have to worry about the explosions or the gravity crush... that just leaves the chain lightning. Watch the tank -- is he about to reposition the boss? Alright, drop a barrier a little behind him. Bam, you now have a fresh barrier that your tank and melee can all get full use out of. Congratulations... not that you needed it in the first place.

Our tank pretty much continually walks backward. Given the rate at which those pools drop, the melee in my guild would not be under the barrier for its full duration.

Nefarian: You don't need to push an electrocute during the air phase. Wow.

There is that achievement, ya know. And even without pushing crackles, reducing raid damage at the start of P2 is pretty awesome, with the whole thing of people being low from lava damage, the pew pew from Nef and the extra lava damage the people with cinders are taking. Those first 10 seconds after the lava reaches full height are the most taxing on healers. But alas, my lovely cooldown only benefits my platform.

[Afflictid]

Omnotron: good luck killing heroic omnotron if your raid can't stack under a barrier. Yes, everyone is under the barrier every time when we do heroic Omnotron. You're wrong.

Actually... I've downed the fight as holy and disc. Even when I was disc, I didn't use barrier for that fight. Most of the time, stacking is a bad idea.

[Belloc]

My guild has killed Heroic Omnitron 9 times, according to the armory stats. We're usually all stacked for the first Incineration, but the second is very meh. Some of us ranged are standing in the pools(if they're up), melee are off chasing the newly activated tron...

Usually stacked for the first = use barrier for the first.

25 man guild and yes, I'm talking about heroic. Your suggestion that we should stack & spread is retarded. Lost dps and, in the last phase, unnecessary damage since those shadow nukes have splash damage.

Ok, so, you want to just eat the raid-wide AOE during the first phase? You can't find time to drop a barrier on your melee or ranged clumps when Magmaw is breathing? Fine by me if you want the healers to be taxed.

I was more thinking of reducing raid damage during the roar for shits and giggles. Our tanks have their own CDs to pop.

The fight is basically over by the time the roars start hitting. And if you really want to, you can still drop a barrier right on top of Halfus and still hit most of your melee + tanks.

Our tank pretty much continually walks backward. Given the rate at which those pools drop, the melee in my guild would not be under the barrier for its full duration.

Sounds like your tank is moving too much. Allowing the puddles to grow for a short amount of time does not cause the fight to be any more dangerous and it increases your overall DPS by forcing less movement.

There is that achievement, ya know. And even without pushing crackles, reducing raid damage at the start of P2 is pretty awesome, with the whole thing of people being low from lava damage, the pew pew from Nef and the extra lava damage the people with cinders are taking. Those first 10 seconds after the lava reaches full height are the most taxing on healers. But alas, my lovely cooldown only benefits my platform.

And I've already explained why that is fine.

[Liliyah]

I'm more than aware that you can often drop a barrier on *some* people, as I often do. The point is that barrier frequently does not affect *all* people in the raid, unlike everyone else's cooldowns. Barrier already has some severe limitations given certain situations, so a heavy nerf is just disappointing.

[Belloc]

Actually... I've downed the fight as holy and disc. Even when I was disc, I didn't use barrier for that fight. Most of the time, stacking is a bad idea.

So, you enjoy making the fight harder than it needs to be. Good for you!

The only time that stacking is a bad idea is when Electron is out. Stacking in a barrier for Security Measure is never a bad idea. I don't care if you're getting hit by the chain lightning -- stacking in the barrier will always result in less overall raid damage. If you have someone with the pulsing lightning AOE, of course keep them out. Otherwise, stack.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 07:19 PM ----------

I'm more than aware that you can often drop a barrier on *some* people, as I often do. The point is that barrier frequently does not affect *all* people in the raid, unlike everyone else's cooldowns. Barrier already has some severe limitations given certain situations, so a heavy nerf is just disappointing.

You're a 25-man raid guild, though, which certainly means that you have warriors, right? Doesn't sound like it's much of a nerf for your group, what with last raid stand.

[Liliyah]

The fact that the barrier cooldown will be higher, the barrier effectiveness will be lowered, and warriors will have a raid-wall makes me, the disc priest, less attractive when considering group composition. It's just one more reason to go holy.

[Belloc]

The fact that the barrier cooldown will be higher, the barrier effectiveness will be lowered, and warriors will have a raid-wall makes me, the disc priest, less attractive when considering group composition. It's just one more reason to go holy.

It doesn't make you any less attractive. You've still got a barrier that lasts longer than divine guardian, reduces more damage, and prevents spell pushback. There are still effective uses for this ability on every single fight in the game. I would go as far as to say that, for most fights, it's basically a requirement for progression raiding.

Any why should disc priests be so attractive? I mean, you have plenty of tools at your disposal already, even if some people here are bashing on them. I've never once heard our disc priest complain about any of the changes that have come and are coming his way. The fact of the matter is that disc priests are powerful. There's at least one spot in every 25-man raid for them. In 10-man raids, they can always go holy if it is more effective for a fight.


To everyone else: I understand that Barrier might not be as good as divine guardian. So? Do you really want all raid cooldowns to be equally effective? I certainly don't. I like having some distinction between classes. I like knowing that a raid with carefully chosen compositions can have an easier time with certain fights -- otherwise, what's the point in ever recruiting beyond your 10/25 players? And I know that everyone hates recruiting and sitting out of fights ... but what are you going to do when one of your 10/25 quits? Sit around and whine because you can't raid?

Barrier is still going to be powerful. Yes, it might have times where usage of it is limited and it is less effective than divine guardian. You're not going to be able to use it as often, that is true. But you also have to keep in mind that barrier lasts for 10 seconds and prevents spell pushback. Even a 25% barrier is more effective than a 20% divine guardian when the people taking damage are actually standing in it. That won't always be the case, but you can't discount the fact that it is a stronger cooldown in situations where it can be fully utilized. If you can't recruit a warrior/prot paladin to make up for the longer cooldown, then I guess you aren't ready for heroics.

And for those of you saying, "Why should I have to recruit a prot paladin or a warrior," I ask you this: Why should a group without a disc priest have to recruit one? Why should anyone have to recruit anything? This change was made because Warriors were giving a raid cooldown. This is an overall benefit. I'm sorry if it hurts your raid, but it's a pretty big help for a lot more people. Stop being so selfish.

[Touch]

is another raid cooldown see now all or almost raid cooldown have 3 min cd
pw:b , tranquility , aoe last stand, divine guardian

[Deleted]

is another raid cooldown see now all or almost raid cooldown have 3 min cd
pw:b , tranquility , aoe last stand, divine guardian

I think it would be less of a problem if PW: B would work just like these abilities. But it doesn't; it's a positional spell, while those other raid abilities actually grant raidwide effect in most situations.

[Siri]

The amount of nature resistance you have with aspect/totem provides roughly a 25% damage reduction. I'd say that's close enough.

Feel free to keep listing abilities, I don't mind. I'm not the one complaining about gaining a minute on the cooldown and losing 5% damage reduction.

But, since you insist, I can think of reliable, safe ways to use Barrier on Heroic Halfus, Heroic V&T, Council, Heroic Cho'gall, Heroic Omnotron, Heroic Magmaw, Heroic Maloriak, Heroic Chimaeron, Heroic Atramedes, Heroic Nefarian, Heroic Conclave of Wind, and Heroic Al'Akir. Yes, that's all of the fights. I'm sure if we were on Sinestra, I could find a use for it there, too. Would you like me to start listing the uses that your disc priest should already know? I don't usually tell people how to play their class, but apparently you guys need some help.

You're missing the point yet again, none of this relevant at all for the comparison of DG vs PW:B. as an example, you CAN use PW:B in p2 of nef, but DG is still a ton better because it cover all three pillars, you can use PW:B on a group of people in the last phase of the ascendant council but DG will cover the entire raid which is much more useful. Similar things can be said for pretty much everything you're mentioning. Furthermore, yes, 195 resistance provides an average of 25% reduction but you already have motw/kings which is worth 14% so the actual gain from aura/totem is MUCH less than the 25% you're talking about.

You say people here are impossible to argue with yet you continue to ignore what I'm actually talking about and instead harp on about PW:B being useful, something I never disagreed with.

I'm done responding to you