10-Man vs. 25-Man - What's the difference?

[Deleted]

In Wrath you could have new players go do 10 mans to get geared enough to do 25 mans and to get some experience.
Now you have to both gear and get experience in 10 mans, when your guild only do 10 mans ofc. That's harder imo. Cause as several of you have already stated, there are less margin for personal errors on 10 man.

On top of that, it's alot harder to organize a 10 man guild than alot of ppl tend to think. It's not just about getting 2 tanks, 5 dps and 3 healers to log on. On several fights you need particular classes and as a 10 man guild you don't normally have 20 ppl to pick between. It's a very sharp edge to balance the number of ppl you have in your roster. Too few and you will have a hard time getting the "right" setup. Too many and you will have to bench several ppl. Alot of ppl will simply leave and find a guild where they wont be benched and with the amount of 10 man guilds popping up all the time, that's not at all hard.

Add to that the difficulties 10 man guilds have when it comes to recruiting. Cause you can't just recruit a random dps. Atm we are a dps short, but that dps has to be an ele shaman. With no mage and no shaman in the roster, we need an ele shaman (no room for more melee) to get BL.

Loot wise; I don't think I've ever experienced worse loot drop tbh. I've been raiding for almost 2 months in the same guild and gotten 1 piece of MS loot. Why? Cause nothing else has dropped, that I couldn't get from VP/rep. Meaning I havn't seen the leather shoulders on Omno, the staff from Halfus or the trinket from Valiona a single time. (Got 2 items with another guild back in late december though).

Point is, as the main tank I've gotten zero loot for weeks now. Don't remember ever have this happen in the prior tiers tbh.

[moveth]

That is absolutely not true. Loosing one person in a 25 man environement can be just as bad as in 10 man.

18manning Valiona Normal would like to have a word with you.

[Deleted]

At this moment you can say 10man is for pugs and for small guilds who enjoy play together but don't care for progress. 25man is for big guilds that struggle for server firsts.
but 10man and 25man hc are not to be put in same room as normals
in 25man hc boss have 3times more hp (and you have 3 times more dps with more class/spec buff balance)
in 10man 1raid healer need to handle like 500k healing on raid in min and in 25man 3healers need to handle 1250k healing on raid (note only boss attack that do more dmg on 25man that in 10man is basic auto attack) what make it easier and also you have bigger chance to have 2xmana tide in 25man that 1mana tide on 10man =more mana regen in 25man. I don't say 25man is not harder (remember when need 8y range spread out? do it in 10 and 25man and you will see deference ;D) but don't forget 10man is way more imbalanced that 25man

Numbers don't need to be correct but wonted to show you difference in best possible way in fights where wipe is when dps fall to low or you lost to much healers 10man is harder and in places where your guildie stupid hunter forget to move pet and his pet start wipe chain reaction (allow hunter pet so stay on magmatron on hc 25man and you will see what I'm talking about ;D

[Deleted]

Well there are many good points some fights will be harder on 25 man some will on 10 man. 80% of this thread contains flame war between omgzufuif 10m vs 25m flame war.

Well fights like Halfus HC where you have enourmous coverage of fireballs of floor with same ammount of space as 10 man a chance that someone will get hit in 25man is obviously bigger , already mentioned al akir due to space loss in 25m.

Someone mentionin omgomg we 6manned VnT normal , well this is propably one of most easiest encounters on normal.

Obiously raid buff wide / utility wise 25mans will be easier.

But the point stands some things are gonna be harder on one raid size while other while be easier in other even though blizzard might want to achieve balance between them i dont think it is fully acomplishable.

[Deleted]

I don't get the " a 10man player death has a larger effect on the group compared to 25man" arguement. Wouldn't a 25man raid have a 2.5 higher chance of losing a raid member unless we are talking about mechanics like Magmatron flamethrower and Atramedes' breath?

[P4R45171K]

The only real difference is that bosses ability X does Z amount of DMG to Y members split among them, is higher. That's it.

[Asmin]

Your entire post is meaningless because it's based on normal modes. Normal modes are designed to be forgiving, yes you can still kill valiona with 6 people. Re-read your post and assume heroic modes... you still think your argument holds?

like if heroics would be hard anymore after the nerfs....HC:S are bit to bit starting to remind me of ICC times.... allready

[Rudolpho]

like if heroics would be hard anymore after the nerfs....HC:S are bit to bit starting to remind me of ICC times.... allready

If you think the heroics in the game now are anything like ICC heroics in terms of difficulty you are crazy. I went 10\12 heroic 25 and 12\12 heroic 10 in ICC and out of the 10 man that I got bane with, I had to replace 4 of the members just to finish the normal cata raids. I would say ICC heroics = Cata normals (with the exception of maybe PP and LK 25 heroic, since PP was pretty challenging, and LK was nearly impossible prebuff...yes he was killed with 0% later, but using heroic LK and heroic halion gear).

[Deleted]

Atramedes heroic, you kinda run out of gongs to hit if your dps is not enough. And like i said, dps requirements are generally tighter for 10 heroics, talking about if a dps dies compared to if some dps dies on 25 man heroic. Conclave 10 heroic as well on Rohash, breaking the shield can be scary if you dont have a perfect setup. Someone in this thread made a great post including some maths about this as well.

Pre nerf, maybe. Nowadays I don't see any feasible way of hitting enrage unless somebody fails horribly on either discs or adds and you end up needing to use a gong in the ground phase. I'll give you conclave, its a bitch. Al Akir makes up for it though so I have nps with having to work a little harder on conclave.

---------- Post added 2011-03-05 at 01:51 AM ----------

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Add to that the difficulties 10 man guilds have when it comes to recruiting. Cause you can't just recruit a random dps. Atm we are a dps short, but that dps has to be an ele shaman. With no mage and no shaman in the roster, we need an ele shaman (no room for more melee) to get BL.

BM is perfectly viable for many fights atm, theres your heroism.

As for the loot, just seems like bad luck. my moonkin has the 372 halfus staff, omno shoulders, atra chest, and chim hands already, but nothing heroic for my moonkin spec lol other than the tier legs.