Holy pally Haste or Crit?

[Sunseeker]

There are 2 main problems with Mastery:

TL;DR: Mastery isn't nearly as "consistent" of a healing increase as you believe, unless you're only healing tanks and never touch the raid with a 10-foot pole.

There is still strong reasoning to use pallies as dedicated tank healers. In any case, an additional downside is that the shields are often just too damn small. 4k shield? Okay that'll save ya something, 1k? 500? There could have been so much more done with the shields and have no worry about stepping on the toes of holy priests.

[Verdandi]

It's an example of people knowing what they're doing and being backed up by math (us) and people (like you) who just think "whoa it's a shield and shiny and it's free".

Actually, I was thinking "whoa haste is a point sink". It takes way to much to show way to little benefit. The amount of points you're throwing into haste could be better served in pretty much anything anything else.

[eternalwhitemoon]

There is still strong reasoning to use pallies as dedicated tank healers. In any case, an additional downside is that the shields are often just too damn small. 4k shield? Okay that'll save ya something, 1k? 500? There could have been so much more done with the shields and have no worry about stepping on the toes of holy priests.

That's true as well, although if you stack Mastery your shields will be bigger :P

I definitely was not saying that we should not be assigned to tanks, and if it read that way I'm sorry.

My point was that even if you are assigned to the tanks, as I usually am, that doesn't exempt you from helping on the raid when you can. Don't just sit there with your thumb up your butt and your tank at full while the raid is going down in flames. :P*

Not saying you as in you personally, but 'you' in a general sense.

Actually, I was thinking "whoa haste is a point sink". It takes way to much to show way to little benefit. The amount of points you're throwing into haste could be better served in pretty much anything anything else.

Everything is a point sink if you look at it that way.

Crit is too RNG and Mastery is wasted too often, so what would you rather use it on? Dodge? lol

[lepeigne]

Holy paladins dont need haste. If you find yourself needing a quick heal you can use WOG, Holyshock, FOL, or even Infusion of Light. We have more instant cast heals than any other class. Shaman have none,(except for the CD) these are the healy classes that need haste over any other class. The paladins most important stat as a healer is crit. I agree that crit can be problematic because it is not consistent, but with health values the way they are the inconsistency is less of a problem than you may think. Overhealing is no longer an issue, bigger heals mean more shield absortion without needing a larger mana pool.

one word... retard it the only word I think of when i see this. go ahead ban me

Sure, no problem. - Hitsurugi

[Sunseeker]

That's true as well, although if you stack Mastery your shields will be bigger :P

Well yes, but with how much you gain per point, you REALLY have to stack it, and I do love my haste.

[eternalwhitemoon]

I do too. Haste ftw!

They're increasing the per-point value of Mastery as well in 4.1, but that was completely irrelevant to my point (and doesn't affect the stacking issue I mentioned). I do not advocate stacking Mastery right now, period.

Int>Spirit>Haste>Crit>Mastery. Gogo.

[Yzyz]

Holy paladins dont need haste. If you find yourself needing a quick heal you can use WOG, Holyshock, FOL, or even Infusion of Light. We have more instant cast heals than any other class. Shaman have none,(except for the CD) these are the healy classes that need haste over any other class. The paladins most important stat as a healer is crit. I agree that crit can be problematic because it is not consistent, but with health values the way they are the inconsistency is less of a problem than you may think. Overhealing is no longer an issue, bigger heals mean more shield absortion without needing a larger mana pool.

By your logic, Mastery is amazing too huh? lol scrub..

They are wrong. Spirit (if needed depending on your gear/raid mana regen) and haste. Crit is way, way below both of those, and mastery even more so.

I think you're reading it backwards >.<

Int > spirit > Haste. No doubt. Check the top guilds and all of them are haste oriented.

[eternalwhitemoon]

Int > spirit > Haste. No doubt. Check the top guilds and all of them are haste oriented.

I don't think they're disagreeing that haste is good--I think their point is that if you have so much Spirit that you're ending the fight at 90% mana, for instance, you should be reforging/re-gearing/regemming for haste instead.

[Tibbets]

Verd...whatever your name is and the first guy who posted about crit>haste. You are the reason that holy paladin is one of the most under performing classes in wow. You are the reason that when people, who reach 85 on an alt and are not in a high progression guild see you toon running around SW or Org with a few regualr mode kills and think "hey i guess i should do what he is doing". If you can beat any of the sims that ANYONE on this forum has layed out about mastery>haste or spirt or crit please link it id be impressed. The reason mastery is so terrible is that the bubbles overlap, this is not the same concept as a disc priest and thus the bubble themselves are wasted
Ex:
DL heals target for X and thus places a bubble on target for a duration,
You cast Holy light, a smaller bubble is placed on the target instead of the larger bubble
Boss hits target....bubble is wasted

You have got to be doing this for argument sake and making us all crazy or you are the most illiterate person i have ever seen not being able to read the 50000 threads about how poor mastery is and how it works. Haste is bettr, while i agree that the next tick after a certain point for HR is out of reach (even in almost full BiS HM gear) haste still wins out over mastery and crit every single time.

For the crit guy.
I really dont even know what to say to you like i really dont think there is hope for you, i heard that rift is a good game. I really cant believe that after all the threads on this forum you think that having high crit is better throughput then haste or spirt, but please keep doing what your doing im sure blizzard will keep "Blackwings Bane in game for the next xpac so you can farm it at lvl 90.

...drops the mic


im out

[Thaleia43]

That's an easy one...Haste and as much as you can stack. Sure you might use up a bit more mana but every encounter has a phase where the tanks take little to no damage which allows for mana regen via DP or other sources.

[eternalwhitemoon]

The reason mastery is so terrible is that the bubbles overlap, this is not the same concept as a disc priest and thus the bubble themselves are wasted
Ex:
DL heals target for X and thus places a bubble on target for a duration,
You cast Holy light, a smaller bubble is placed on the target instead of the larger bubble
Boss hits target....bubble is wasted

Actually, Tibbets, hate to break it to you...a smaller heal with refresh an existing shield, not replace it. >.>

They actually get wasted for 2 reasons:

1) On the raid, they only last 8 seconds. Raid damage is rarely shorter than 8 seconds.

2) On tanks, since the smaller shield just refreshes the existing one, you might as well not have even casted the smaller heal, from a Mastery standpoint.

[P4R45171K]

I personally reforged Crit an gem up Haste. So it's a preference.

[Him]

Holy paladins dont need haste. If you find yourself needing a quick heal you can use WOG, Holyshock, FOL, or even Infusion of Light. We have more instant cast heals than any other class. Shaman have none,(except for the CD) these are the healy classes that need haste over any other class. The paladins most important stat as a healer is crit. I agree that crit can be problematic because it is not consistent, but with health values the way they are the inconsistency is less of a problem than you may think. Overhealing is no longer an issue, bigger heals mean more shield absortion without needing a larger mana pool.

You really couldnt be any more wrong... seriously. Int > Spirit > Haste >>> Crit >>>> Mastery, as already stated

[llcoolbean]

Any holy pally knows mastery is a joke, i reforge mastery for crit or haste all the time

[Brashara]

Isn't crit better for PvP? Just saying that might be why he's confused and maybe he's not trolling...

[eternalwhitemoon]

Isn't crit better for PvP? Just saying that might be why he's confused and maybe he's not trolling...

The OP never makes any mention of PVP in any of these 3 pages, and this isn't in the PVP forum...

...so while it's technically possible, not likely he was referring to PVP. Especially since he's referring to a PVE guide on Holy.

[Howard Moon]

Lol poor Seani is wishing he'd never opened his mouth.

[Deleted]

in arena go crit for IoF procs

[Theholypally]

I think this is another example of people pushing what they knew vs. the unexplored. Mastery was added for a reason and that reason is simple; to point people in the intended direction a class/spec was meant to go. I'd rather have a larger buffer shield giving me a longer required reaction time (allowing me to decide what to cast next) than pushing a ridiculous amount of points into haste for such small results.

Please tell me you're joking.

[Nillo]

Any holy pally knows mastery is a joke, i reforge mastery for crit or haste all the time

For PVE reforging mastery to crit is also wrong....