Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Karizee]

Give them character names on your account/when you created them if you remember.

Also, source about the change to crit?

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...ay-at-2pm-PST/

[rhandric]

Ah...see, I never read or view those livestreams/posts about them, because they occur while I'm at work

[Meledelion]

Since you keep touting that, here's some questions:
(anyone is invited to give their answers)

1. What do you consider to be more damaging (har har) double crit damage or double damage?
2. What scales better (with itself) crit damage or damage?
3. What are the highest values(maximum) of crit -and normal damage you can attain

As for why it'll be a fail.
The problem isn't that zerker is too strong, it's that everything else is too weak. Nerfing zerker changes nothing, it simply makes it so fights will last longer.
Let's say zerkers now(after the nerf) do only 50% of their current DPS (which still is higher than running defensive gear since otherwise a-net has gone full retard). This will change 1toon out of 5 because going with 5 conditioners (yea, that's a word now ) will do less damage, in fact more than 1 condtioner will be overkill so the party becomes 4zerker 1 conditioner.
Will anyone bother with healing gear or tank gear? Hell no since that'll be even worse than zerker. The only thing that changes is that bad players get punished less (or good players rewarded less) than now.

Answers:

1. Damage is stronger since it makes all damage (crits and non crits alike) stronger
2. Damage scales better, every +x% has to be multiplied while critical damage has to be added.
=> DMG +10% and +10% = + 21%, CDMG +10% and +10% = +20%
3. The classes that can get the highest amount of crit damage are warrior, ranger and ele, they can get up to 306% critical damage (using runes of rage, lightning hammer, food, +10% trait and ofcourse 30points into discipline.
The highest damage modifier you can get is using an ele (of course) and you can get up to 402.05% (guardians can get up to 325.28%, and warriors and thieves are in the same ballpark, the only classes that I know can't get as close are ranger and mesmer.), technically even more since you can have more than 4 boons but that doesn't really matter.

[zito]

By your logic they would have to buff all other types of gear stats to be on par with zerker, in which case they would be better then zerker which would make the gear set dead. Secondly if they buffed other gear sets to be "on par" with zerker then that would mean they would have to buff every single fight in the game and NPCs to make sure people view their intended mechanics and proper length of death.

It is just far too easier to change crit damage rather then change the entire game. Which is what they are going to be doing - so you can't argue that it "wont work" if it hasn't changed yet.

[Meledelion]

Zerker (or the condition damage equivalent) should ALWAYS be the best for DPS since the reasoning is you trade of survivability for damage. That part should remain untouched, it's illogical to make it so a class with 50k HP would be doing 18k DPS while a zerker with 15k HP gets lower numbers.

The trade-off ATM simply isn't worth it to go with another stat. Why would you get +healing if it only gives you 3k more HPS at max and you still can't outheal OHK? The trade-off simply isn't fair.
The same thing happens with tank gear (toughness/vitality), you gimp your Effective Power a lot more than you gain in equivalent Effective Health. If you calculate relative stat weights (mainly done for precision and power) of power and vitality, it will always scale towards power because of this, while it should be possible to get a break-even point.

Being on par has nothing to do with DPS, it has to do with relative stat worth: if you halve your EP you should double your EH and vice versa.

For conditions I of course do mean that the damage should be similar to pure damage (rampager vs berserker/assassin).

I don't understand why these changes would make it so all npc's (including enemies) should be revised because I can heal more, or take more hits, as I said if my HP goes up (or toughness or healing power) my DMG goes down.

Yea it's easier to nerf shit than to actually balance the game, what's your point?

And yes I can argue that things won't work even before they are implemented it's called reasoning, you saw my argument as to why it won't work, try to make a counterargument that negates EVERYTHING I said, since if you don't account for each and every thing listed there will be no change whatsoever (aside from making fights longer).

[zito]

Nobody said about nerfing crit damage to be on par with other stats. We actually don't know how they are going to change it but 300-400% +crit damage is just insane and trivializes content.

What you want is to buff other stats to be comparable to this level of insane which would further break content more. It is more reasonable to change +crit damage so it doesn't get into insane levels (but still offer more damage) then change everything else which would make them change more then just stat weights.

So hold your high horse till they tell us what the F they are even changing. It is like basketball wives with you.

[Meledelion]

Sigh I understand that you don't know the numbers and are talking out of your ass but here goes again:

1. You can only get up to 306% crit damage MAXIMUM, THIS INCLUDES THE STANDARD 150%!
2. Indeed nobody, not even I said to nerf Crit Damage to be on par with other stats (something about ass and smoke...)
3. Then nothing will be changed about the zerker meta. If there isn't a 1 to 1 relation between survival and damage, nobody is going to use survival gear. Nerfing zerker gear alone will not fix this since that just elongates the fights without making healing power/toughness/vitality more appealing.
4. No it's not since crit damage isn't the problem to begin with.
5. We know what they are changing, crit damage. We don't know to what degree they are changing it but that's not important.

I'll repeat what I actually want:
1. Make the condition equivalent of zerker/assassin gear capable of reaching the same damage output.
2. Make having toughness/vitality/healing power actually meaningful.

- - - Updated - - -

I forgot that you might (probably do) not know what the goal is so here:

We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.

Jon

[zito]

It is much worse then basketball wives.

[Fencers]

That's not how conversations go.

Um, yes they can go like that. And do so often. Like, at a dinner party? Where conversation is free wheeling and spins off in to many topics. Sometimes related, sometimes not.

Even more so on forum where you can cherry pick the relevant parts to your interest to reply to. I might not be interested expressly in the Hobbit, but by asking Christine about the Hobbit she revealed an interesting piece of information; she likes cat movies.

"Christine, tell what you like about cat movies"

Is the same thing but there's an extra limiting factor.

And that's interesting. The conditioning in Lane's case may not necessarily be game driven.

If I [reasonably] "know" a dog is being starved I am unlikely to be perplexed as to why the dog salivates when he hears the dinner bell. I would know with reasonable certainty and incidence the conditions that led to that behavior in the dog.

For example, in our labs we have evidence that roughly 67% of Caucasian females with an income +45k/y aged 24-34yrs. old exercise regularly. However we don't know why that is really. There may be [there is, fyi] hundreds of reasons why this Incidence is reflected as such.

What is called a true or unfiltered Incidence can take into account many granular reasons why the Product or Behavior rate is high among individuals of that specific demo group and not among others. The desire to engage in that behavior can be very broad without comparative data.

Thus I was asking of Lane, if she is playing a game with an update strategy/design philosophy not punishing to "taking a break" why she felt the need to keep playing. It may be that she does have an economic reason [money is tight, or was tight] or the game is suitably compulsive for reasons X/Y/Z [Everquest, Candy Crush].

If I don't ask her I won't know why she feels that way about the game or activity. I can assume some things- look at comparative reports or data [as I asked the other fellow]. At best, deductive reasoning provided I have enough data to come to a likely and reasonable conclusion. Though I can not "know" what factors for them [Lane and that fellow from the other thread] are at the root of their disposition without asking more of them.

[Meledelion]

Well yesterday I was looking out the window and I wondered why birds jump off a ledge instead of just flapping their wings and flying.


The thing about the limiting factor is that they are secondary reasons. The primary key is that they are conditioned to do it. So the answer to your question is: because Lane is conditioned to.
Asking her (or anyone else) why isn't going to help you at all.

Structure be damned. Christine here is doing a faux pas, in that she's entering a conversation without being asked to do so. At a dinner party when two people are talking and you want to do some networking, you don't just enter the conversation by making some random statement that sort of ties in with w/e the other two were talking about. It's common to just give your opinion or w/e when there's an opening.
I get that we're on a forum and not at a dinner party but the same social etiquette remains intact.

PS: we don't know what kind of movies Christine likes

It's like a psych convo: "doc, I'm depressed", "why are you depressed", "well my mom died and my gf left me" and in the end it turns out the person is depressed because they never managed to live up to the expectations of daddy.
What you're doing is nonsensical in that you are the doc and already know that your patient has daddy issues and then you ask "why are you depressed". just to find out what other secondary reasons there are.

[Fencers]

Ah, with her cat. Haha! Fabulous. I love it.

The investigation is to what caused that conditioning in the game for her. Are these systematic of the genre? Of the game? Of lifestyle, economics, etc.

These things are important to understanding one's disposition. I already know people in demo X exercise or play a game. I don't know what factors cause it to be so.

Edit: This could also be getting too off topic.

[Meledelion]

Time to close then:
I doubt that you're going to find out what conditioned person A or B into logging on each day, but it's safe to say it's going to be very hard to find out by asking that person.

That's the "beauty" of conditioning, otherwise it simply wouldn't work.

[Exroyal]

If i had Fencers help me with litterature i would 6 in every language class (straight A's for USA peeps)

[Meledelion]

6 is barely scraping by in my country or at university failing horribly. At uni it's x/20 and before that it's x/10 (where 20 or 10 is the max, but you'll never get max)

[Lane]

I sound like a lab rat. :P

Anything that is time gated is what gets me in every game. I hated missing a day of dailies in WoW because it meant my goal got pushed further out by at least a day. It's the same thing in GW2 with laurels.

As far as being a completionist, that's just me. I've been doing that in every game since I can remember. The difference is in other games, like Mario (for example), getting 100% of the stars is usually fun/challenging with the exception of the inevitable 1-2 stars that are a pain in the ass. (Not to mention it usually unlocks something fun like secret characters, or bonus levels, etc.) In GW2, most of it is boring and tedious (with a typically terrible prize at the end), but they add up to achievement points which eventually get me nicer account bonuses. Let's face it, the LS crap is the single best way to grind achievement points, although, since getting the 10k chest there's been less incentive to do that too.

I also have a very bad habit of sticking to something long past the point where I should for lack of anything better to do. In my case, my bf went back to WoW, I didn't want to go back to WoW, and there was no other MMO on the market that we were interested in and/or hadn't already tried so I decided to just stick with GW2 until greener pastures appeared. Financially, no, I don't have the disposable income to spend on a bunch of console games (as much as I wish I could).

[Meledelion]

Just get skyrim, you can play that game for hundreds of hours

[Exroyal]

Skyrim with mods, glorious. Jesus Anet give us Elona, i want to see Vabbi in GW2 graphics.

[nevermore]

I may be horribly uninformed, but doesn't the cause of zerker dominance lie in the very core of the game design itself? As in, the fact that PvE essentially boils down to the binary "dodge or die" which renders defensive stats mostly useless, so we might as well just go full out glass cannon?

I don't see how nerfing zerker stats would solve _anything_ but then again I might have just missed the point of this conversation.

[Meledelion]

No, you're spot on.

People have been QQing that nothing else is viable, which isn't true. You can go with any gear you'll just be less optimised.

The only genuine complaint (imo) is that condition classes are worthless if you bring more than 1 person who brings conditions. Knowing that a single zerk war brings 6stacks of bleeding that's a big hit (about 900dps) to one conditioner, my team runs with an ele and guard who bring burning (another hit) and a ranger who can also give 6-8stacks of bleeding (some are from the pet) so just because you run with an optimised party you're being limited a lot.

Healing gear is worthless since you can never outheal the damage you get anyway. You either get one-shot or you didn't really need the heal.
Toughness/vit sort of works but they're basically training wheels.

[Lane]

Just get skyrim, you can play that game for hundreds of hours

Did. :P There is one main quest line I haven't done that I keep meaning to go back to do. I haven't played it since shortly after it came out though and at the time most of the mods were kind of terrible.