[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Priestiality]

Right. He told them these two are mine. Why would that apply to Arya?

Reaction times are a thing and the walkers have never been shown to be particularly nimble or quick. If someone the size of Arya ran past someone the size of that walker fast enough to cause his hair to move, then look in that direction, by the time he actually sees her she's out of range and he isn't fast enough to grab her or catch her in the process.

[jakeic]

There was that scene where the red witch states Dondarion had fulfilled his purpose, which he didn’t seem to do anything, but it foreshadowed Arya killing the Night King, but I dismissed it as making no sense for two reasons, Arya has no connection to the Night King story and she has never seen the Night King (or a white walker for that matter) so how does she know they have blue eyes? The more time I spend thinking about the final Night King scene the less it seems to fit into the GoT universe.

Also, to anyone saying that it’s called Game of Thrones so obviously the Iron Throne is the ultimate goal, it is actually titled A Song of Ice and Fire, A Game of Thrones was the name of the first book which latter was shifted to Game of Thrones for the title of the show.

[Malikath]

How is it a cop-out? Their leader ordered them to stop attacking because the NK was 100% sure he had won. She literally just ran past them while their attention was focused on Bran. It's not rocket science. They let their guard down, because again, the NK was convinced the battle was already won.

because you focused your argument on the mindless undead, the white-walkers are followers of the night-king and the real threat to foiling arya's attempt.
also he apparently didn't let it down because the night king intercepted her first attack, the heart-stab was accidental but that can be explained by bran knowing all possible permutation of events and orchestrating things to play out as they have.

[Chelly]

Aight, my takes:
- What the heck was Bran doing all episode.

What the hell has he been doing since day 1? He's by far the most boring character.

[IIamaKing]

Uh, did you not notice that he literally ordered them to stop attacking once he arrived?

Im convinced some of these people are just trolls who are only arguing based off what they read on reddit and haven't actually watched the show.

[Malikath]

Really doubt he'll walk off anywhere. He might lead the next rolling army, though.

alot of the undead were skeletal, it's a nice joke but if he starts walking again, get a torch.

[MrTharne]

It's like you whiners literally didn't watch the episode and only get your talking points from idiots on 4chin and leddit who wroth at the mouth for the tiniest shit.



There is a clear path for Arya to run behind the Night Kind.

You mean the "path" where we see Ice exploding where the WWs were standing ?

Blue = Dead, White = WWs, Red = Tree, Brown = Brann, Ice Blue = NK, Pink = Arya :


How did Pink got here ?

[IIamaKing]

and the white-walkers with him who've been established as sapient entities and not just mindless drones? stop relying on cop-out arguments, coward.

Were Not fast enough, we were shown THIS as well.

[Priestiality]

because you focused your argument on the mindless undead, the white-walkers are followers of the night-king and the real threat to foiling arya's attempt.
also he apparently didn't let it down because the night king intercepted her first attack, the heart-stab was accidental but that can be explained by bran knowing all possible permutation of events and orchestrating things to play out as they have.

No I didn't. As I pointed out above. Walkers aren't fast. They're slower than wights. The danger they pose comes from the fact they're immune to everything but dragonglass and Valyrian steel. They're classic juggernaut archetypes. For example, "The Juggernaut" from X-Men's power isn't "runs really fast" it's "once he has momentum he cannot be stopped". Same with the walkers. They don't run up, they don't fight fancy. They literally just overpower people. Watch the fight between Jon and the Walker in Hardhome. The walker fights like a Night's Watch trainer, slow and telegraphed, and you can clearly see he didn't expect to encounter someone capable of fighting back when Jon successfully blocks his attack. A normal steel sword would have shattered and Jon would have been cut in half.

[mojojojo202]

So, the episode was kind of fine for me, had some big, big flaws for me though.

-The lighting seemed dark and generally uninteresting. I shouldn't need a 4K TV to get competent looking dark scenes.
-The fight geography is a mess. Being able to work out where each thing is in relation to everything else is, for me, the most important thing in any fight/battle scene. The episode sort of flicks about a bit and it's hard to piece together exactly where each character is. A big part of that is having the dragons fly around blind then, a minute or 2 later end up exactly where they started.
-I don't think the pacing is very good. They clearly know you can't just do smashy-smashy for 90 minutes but their deviations from the main conflict were poorly timed, ineffective and make the geography thing worse.
-The Arya thing. I don't mean from a how did she do that point of view, I mean from a story point of view. It just felt undeserved, it felt like a waste of an existential horror/villain to have never had any growth and it being Arya to kill him just felt like them trying to pull a suprise out... except it really wasn't even a little supirisng. Literally half an hour previous, when it became clear the battle wasn't goinng to plan, I said 'hahaha, this is all going a bit shit... I hope they don't solve it all with a deus ex Arya'. Melisandre's comment and then Arya's absence meant I knew exactly what was coming, if not how.

[crusadernero]

Decent episode. Sort of boring it went more or less down without any big shockers, GoT worthy shockers.

The dotracki suicide squad was a bit weird. Why even do that? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Having NK and his army be defeated without more story of what his and Brans deal really is all about was also a downer. But the season aint over, so lets hope.

Was a bit let down that after all these seasons and all this hype surrounding NK and that the war against the dead would be the biggest war, its over with 3 episodes left. Sure Winterfell got destroyed and they lost alot, if not all of the army, but I feel it all sort of were to easy.

Now we are back to humans and drama. I guess its no surprise with the name of the show, it all gotta end with who sits on the throne I suppose.


I dont know, its a weird feeling. I love this show and was so hyped for this episode, but im sort of let down after watching it.

They beat death - what now? Like really, they litreally beat death.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

because it wasn't shown that she learned it.
we know the assassin's death-cult she joined is capable of magic, but either that arc was cut short and we never got to her learning it and they still used it or they never thought to have her trained for it at all.

I never witnessed Brienne training enough to be as good as she is. Clearly plot armor right?

Or is it just when it doesn't fit your expectations and desires you can pull the bullshit card on not seeing it unfold on screen but when it does you just accept it and move on?

Right...

[Very Tired]

It's nice they foreshadowed Arya killing the Night King in an earlier episode when Jon asked her how she snuck up on her while he was standing in that very same spot.

[Asphyx22]

Did we watch the same shit? What happened in the library? Ohh yeah, thats right! Even the wrights could hear her blood dripping, however, outside, white walkers, even NK can't hear her? Come on man!

Her blood dripping was something that was out of her control. I feel that when Arya sets her mind to it, she can erase her presence and slip by easily. If this was not the case, the wights would have heard her steps when she was moving about the room. Watch the scene again. She is completely silent until her blood starts dripping on the floor.

Additionally, in Episode 1 of Season 8, she even catches Jon by surprise at the exact area she kills the Night King in Episode 3.

[Kolvarg]

You don't need to watch them to understand that Valyrian steel kills White Walkers anyway, so NK dying to one shouldn't really be shocking. But yes it was nice to see them explain how in particular he died since we saw him survive dragonfire.

And tbh I'm really not sure how drawing out an expose on how the NK dies really makes it anymore entertaining than seeing Arya ninja in out of nowhere and get it done. But too each edgelord their own.

So does dragon glass, and therefore dragon glass arrows.

Well read again, nowhere did I say it was not entertaining, in fact I said exactly the opposite. The thing is entertaining shows are not that special. Most shows that are at least decent will be entertaining if they match anything close to your taste, and even "bad" shows can be entertaining in the right mood. Game of Thrones was never just about being entertaining, it was a complex narrative with nuance and cold hard-hitting realities.

It was super cool to watch, amazingly well put together in terms of visuals, scenes, so on. But this has been established as THE single most dangerous threat in the GoT universe, built up over 7 seasons, and the first half of the episode did an incredible job of establishing just how dangerous the undead are and how desperate of a position it is to be against them. But in the end all that was contained in this one episode and now feels fairly irrelevant int he grand scheme of things.

[crusadernero]

So, the episode was kind of fine for me, had some big, big flaws for me though.

-The lighting seemed dark and generally uninteresting. I shouldn't need a 4K TV to get competent looking dark scenes.
-The fight geography is a mess. Being able to work out where each thing is in relation to everything else is, for me, the most important thing in any fight/battle scene. The episode sort of flicks about a bit and it's hard to piece together exactly where each character is. A big part of that is having the dragons fly around blind then, a minute or 2 later end up exactly where they started.
-I don't think the pacing is very good. They clearly know you can't just do smashy-smashy for 90 minutes but their deviations from the main conflict were poorly timed, ineffective and make the geography thing worse.
-The Arya thing. I don't mean from a how did she do that point of view, I mean from a story point of view. It just felt undeserved, it felt like a waste of an existential horror/villain to have never had any growth and it being Arya to kill him just felt like them trying to pull a suprise out... except it really wasn't even a little supirisng. Literally half an hour previous, when it became clear the battle wasn't goinng to plan, I said 'hahaha, this is all going a bit shit... I hope they don't solve it all with a deus ex Arya'. Melisandre's comment and then Arya's absence meant I knew exactly what was coming, if not how.

yeah I realised what was going to happen when Arya talked to Melisandre for the last time. Was just waiting for Arya to jump NK.

[Tsyplenk]

It's like you whiners literally didn't watch the episode and only get your talking points from idiots on 4chin and leddit who wroth at the mouth for the tiniest shit.



There is a clear path for Arya to run behind the Night Kind.

It's like you whiners are reaching in the bottom of the barrel to try and justify one of the stupidest things to ever happen on television. Complete bull.

[DarkAmbient]

Was great... until Arya suddenly appeared from nowhere in one of the cheapest, most eyeroll-worthy moments in television.

https://gfycat.com/elaborateincompatibleadder

[crusadernero]

So does dragon glass, and therefore dragon glass arrows.

Well read again, nowhere did I say it was not entertaining, in fact I said exactly the opposite. The thing is entertaining shows are not that special. Most shows that are at least decent will be entertaining if they match anything close to your taste, and even "bad" shows can be entertaining in the right mood. Game of Thrones was never just about being entertaining, it was a complex narrative with nuance and cold hard-hitting realities.

It was super cool to watch, amazingly well put together in terms of visuals, scenes, so on. But this has been established as THE single most dangerous threat in the GoT universe, built up over 7 seasons, and the first half of the episode did an incredible job of establishing just how dangerous the undead are and how desperate of a position it is to be against them. But in the end all that was contained in this one episode and now feels fairly irrelevant int he grand scheme of things.

Agree. It was really bad what happend to winterfell and the army, but I im left with the feeling "thats it?".

[Independent voter]

No, it's because he's lazy. It doesn't take 8 years to write a good fantasy novel, ask Brandon Sanderson.

Sanderson and GRRM have two different writing methods. Sanderson outlines everything and cranks out 10 pages per day like a machine. He doesn't have a lot of rewrites. Martin writes by the "seat of his pants", making up the story as he goes. He has a ton of rewriting to do. GRRM might throw away a whole chapter and start over. Steven King and GRRM have similar writing methods.