Okay so I'm not saying a mage is absolutly required, we have a 10 man guild and I am a DK tank, we have no other DK's-
We really struggled once we goto Nef without a mage (or i suppose a DK) on kiting adds, we recruited a mage and downed Nef easily, then we went onto Magmaw HC and we have our mage kite adds, then Conclave HC we had our mage kite again, we also rely heavily on him using ring of frost when the 3rd pair of adds come on Maloriak HC.
I would like to know if there are bosses like this in Firelands and if we will still require a mage for some bosses, also are we stupidly relying on our mage when there are other ways to do it. (please note me switching to frost isnt a good option as I prefer tanking).
Just to comfirm, we rely on a mage at the moment for :
Nef
Maloriak HC (ring of frost 3th adds)
Magmaw HC
Conclave HC
Edit : also handy for halfus hc interupts
Edit : the main question was will we be as reliable on our mage in Firelands (kiting wise)
so u have a dk - who doesnt want to play frost... and then you use tactics that are easier with a mage..
whats your point?
I am in a small 10 man guild with 6/13 heroic on farm and we use a frost DK to kite adds in heroic magmaw, a boomkin and warlock handle the adds in phase 1 of nef, and in maloriak we have warlock stuns/hunter traps to help with the adds.
conclave we prefer using our dk to tank the adds but our hunter has also kited them successfully.
You dont need a mage, if you have one in your guild and he is a great player awesome, they have alot of really cool control they can bring to a fight but they are by no means manditory in the fights that you mention.
Frost DK, and they will do stupid amounts of damage while kiting as well, except perhaps on Nefarian where the damage on adds does not matter. Or you know a Hunter.
My guild are 4/13 hc atm, we do want a mage since they are handy some fights but we have never had a mage, we downed maloriak, halfus,atramedes and magmaw without the mage. on the fight like magmaw we have our hunter kite the adds for a while and then our boomkin(me) just keep in solar entire fight and kill adds. So you dont need a mage to do bosses but it helps in some fights yes
Well let's see:
Kiting - Even more easily done by a frost DK. All of the relevant bosses (Nef, Mag, Conclave) can also have the adds be tanked and killed via some other strat.
Ring of Frost on Maloriak - not at all needed, I've never used it. There's a very simple way of not releasing 3 sets of adds at once.
You have a mage, you use him. I have a DK in my raid, and I use him for the kite jobs. On Nef I tank the adds along with Ony. Priest+Shaman combo make Heroic Chim a lot easier. Rogues are a huge difference for VnT. Any class with stack resetting is awesome for Al'akir phase 2.
The list goes on. Having a good depth and variety in raid comp will give you freedom to choose easier strats, there's nothing new or bad about this.
A DK is superior for kiting than a Mage is in most circumstances, to be honest.
On Nefarion, try using the Onyxia zerging strat instead of controlling the adds with CC.
On Magmaw, a DK is by far the best option for kiting. Hunters do nearly as well, but do slightly less damage and don't have Blood presence, which can be annoying for healers from time to time.
On Conclave, I'd still rather use a DK or Hunter to kite than a Mage...
I don't see why you need anyone to kite anything at all for Maloriak. Just try for a set of adds during the Dark phase and you'll only have to tank six through Green. If RNG decides to screw you over, then let the first set out early and pull one out and DPS it down during the next Blue phase, and you'll only have eight adds up for the next green. If that doesn't work either, then either your add tank isn't properly rotating his cooldowns or your healers are bad.
Currently at 11/13HC and done 10 out of them without a mage. The other was just a coincidence, not a requirement.
On nef, the nef tank takes the adds in P1 and we burn Onyxia ASAP.
On maloriak, just rotate CDs on the tank.
On magmaw, we have a frost dk do the parasites.
On conclave, we have a dk tank that can tank the adds, but you could do it with a hunter too I think.
I don't really see how a mage would be THAT essential. This is from my experience:
Nefarian (normal): It's good, sure, but enough support from other classes and there are tons of possibilities to handle it with the help from non-kiting players of the group. Our mage does this as fire with help from moonkin (shrooms slow + typhoon) and whatever else we happen to have in the raid.
Maloriak (heroic): I can survive 9 adds with absolutely no external cc as a protection warrior (aoe fear is glyphed to avoid resets due to aberrations running out) with reasonable realibility, even without a mage things like earthbind totem or shadowfury give tons of help already. If 9 adds are a problem, you can always just reset Maloriak until you get one set of adds before first dark phase and keep killing just 6 adds each green phase and 3 along with the swills in dark phase. Ring of Frost wasn't even used properly at our first kill, it was only after that when I started calling it when it was the best for me.
Magmaw (heroic): We just had the 3 ranged people at range kill the larvas asap and while we had a fire mage there I see absolutely no reason why other classes with good ranged aoe couldn't do it. I'm 100% positive a tank can just solo the larvas too: we even tried this, but no misdirection made it pretty messy to gather them at some points. Might try it some day if we happen to have weaker ranged aoe / cc.
HC Halfus interrupts is where I appreciate having a mage the most really.
Last edited by mmoc4515b91cb7; 2011-06-03 at 05:46 PM.
I love how not a single one of you actually answered the question he posed, instead focusing on whether or not a Mage should be doing the kiting for various fights. From what I've seen on the PTR non of the normal fights require a Mage kiter but I could be wrong and we haven't seen any of the heroic versions yet.
If a mage can kite it then so can a hunter, and in nearly all cases a Frost DK as well. In fact, I'd say that at least for this current tier the Frost DK was a much better choice in most cases.
So no, I doubt you'll "need" a mage in T12 content. But hey, if you all want to start a bidding war for my services feel free :P
If kiting is required a mage can often succesfully kite it. I wouldent say that a mage is required for some fights tho. Seems like you need a kiter, not a mage... Hunters can kite just as good as mages can (and is prolly easier for them aswell). DKs are also very good kiters (They have the easiest job kiting as far as I know).
Mage required? I dont think so.. kiter? yes possibly. but you should not be restricted by not having a mage in your raid.
It's hardly required, as mentioned above there are lots of options on all the bosses you mentioned and I'm sure there will be multiple methods of doing the bosses in Firelands. Use what works for your raid with the tools you have available, simples.
I don,t want to be rude but ur raid lack of imagination if u think a mage is needed for those encounter.
We always had a mage but he was so bad at doing anything else than dps that we did
MagmawH: Without mage kiting
ConclaveH: Without plantz kiting
NefH: Without Bones kitings
MaloriakH: We simply use totems or traps to kite 6-9 adds...
We now have a new pro mage but... we still don't make him kite anything.
You actually don't relly on a mage. You just think u do because u're to lazy or affraid to do it without a mage.
To show you how it is easy to do these encounters without a mage kiting
Magmaw: Worms come, you move, u dps the worms, in 5sec they're all dead. Hurray !!!
Maloriak: U let the first 3 comes, and then dps them while destroying the oozes. The first green phase only have 6 adds. Second shadowphase u do the same, 3 adds + oozes, then usually, we have 2 much dps before the next green phase so we simply kill them before the second green. And when the second green comes, we pop heroisme and rape him for 15sec while he takes 100% more dmg *(yayy)*
Conclave: We stack together, fear bomb the adds 1-2sec before they explode. then we aoe them.
Nefarian: We missdi all the adds to onyxia's tank. Rape onxyia and start p2.
so yeah... I don't really see where mage are so important...
does it seem to anyone else that the OP doesnt want to bring the mage to there raids but feels forced to cuz he doesnt wanna go frost and have someone else tank?
I honestly don't know why no one has read what OP actually is asking since no one has answered it. But, let me be the savior. As far as experiencing all the PTR content so far the only fight where you really kite/dps adds is the Beth'tilac encounter.
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