The League of Legends thread

[Deleted]

That was a problem. If you need to build a slow item on someone, it needs to be looked at. Because without it you will never catch anyone.

And currently his ultimate is much better than it was (due to 6 second duration of defense stat steal).

Right, that is why Shyvana was so terribad in S2. If you didn't need to build a slow-item there'd be no reason for it to be in-game.

[Aydinx2]

Why would Riot release something that needs to be fixed?"

And as the others have said, aesthetics is subjective. I found his old visual way more appealing than his current generic_troll#135 look. Opinions, what a thing, eh.

Because he's outdated, which is exactly what Riot gave as their reason for updating him.
If you've ever played any game before you'd see how his current look is less generic than his previous.
Opinions are fine as long as you don't wave them around like a massive flag.
Riot decided he needed an update, made him fit in with the current events and I'm pretty sure they know more about it than you do.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 11:42 AM ----------

Right, that is why Shyvana was so terribad in S2. If you didn't need to build a slow-item there'd be no reason for it to be in-game.

They should change Shyvana's W (think that's her burn, memory dead) to apply a slow on the enemy on basic atack, max 5 stacks (like 10% slow per stack?).
Her Q would apply 2 instantly ofc, and her ult would apply them in AoE kindoff like Frozen Gauntlet.

[Charge me Doctor]

Wrong. Champions are designed/found out to be functioning at their 'best' with a certain item kit.

Every champion has its core items, and a slow item is/was one of Trundle's core.

Don't be so easy on using 'never'. He has plenty of mechanics to stick to somebody.

He had no reliable slow or gap closer (anyone can walk away/flash from pillar) and he would be a #1 target to be kited around like Sion currently, but he had a lot of tenacity on his W which denied all attempts to kite him in mid and late game. Usually, if i've seen a trundle in S2, we had no problems to nuke him down, if you know that he can land attack-bite-attack, you won't engage him alone. It was (and is currently) easy to escape his ganks (any kind of stun or root on him as soon as he popped pillar) and if he has no ganks, he will be very easy to burst down in teamfight

Now riots gave him reliable survival (stronger ult and longer duration), and increased health restoration on W. And gave him a tool to keep in range of melee attacks even without slow-item. Yes, his Chomp-slow is strong, but it disappears too fast. If you need a longer slow, then yes, Phage/Frozen mallet is out of question.

Problem with old Trundle was that he had to build Phage fast without any options. Now you have a plenty of options what to build first (and you even have an option to not build Frozen mallet at all).

[Aydinx2]

Wrong. Champions are designed/found out to be functioning at their 'best' with a certain item kit.

I don't agree with this statement.
Champions are designed to have a certain role and a unique method of performing this role.
Items enhance champions, but do not define them.

[Daelos]

Anyone played the new Trundle and Sejuani yet? I normally don't care much about the reworks but this time I had to try a few games with both since they were free

I have always kinda liked Trundle, but to be honest playing him felt much more awkward and clunky than before. I don't feel he's much stronger or weaker than before, but something was just off with him. He's still team dependant as hell, and heavily situational pick, since with no dash moves or cc he will get kited incredibly hard by many team comps. That's why he is kinda fun but after all pretty frustrating to play against most teams. I didn't try the jungle with him yet, but found him to be pretty darn good in the top lane. The sustain with your passive and the 1v1 potential with your Q and R just destroys most top laners. I think Trundles Q is pretty problematic tho, in the laning phase I would say it's overpowered as fuck. You just cant challenge Trundle, because he will always has his Q on which, for example, at rank 3 will give him 30 extra AD while lowering the opponents by half of that. Basically the advantage you get from your Q is the same as you having a BF sword, which is just a crazy advantage early on.

While his Q is awesome early, It drops off really badly towards lategame. Why? It has absolutely no scaling whatsoever. It's just a bland 40ad at rank 5, and wont get any more effective from that. It's really effective against bruisers with next to no items in the laning phase, but when you're fighting a AD carry with BT, IE, PD and LW hitting the carry with your Q hardly makes any difference.

Of course the pillar is great in teamfights, and your W is just an awesome boost to your MS and AS, but I found out that Trundle just doesn't do enough in teamfights against teams with atleast decent CC and kiting abilities. Getting to melee range of your primary targets is a pain, and if you manage to get there you just wont dish out enough damage. Of course, with Trundles ulti you just destroy other bruisers in teamfights, but if you are your team's bruiser and don't manage to be a threat to their carries, I think you haven't done your job properly.

I noticed that Trundle is also REALLY fast at destroying towers due to steroids from his Q and W. So I guess with his dueling and tower destroying potential you could split-push very effectively. That's just not really popular in the meta nowadays so I don't know how much of an use that potential will be.

Overall, I think Trundle can be really effective given the right circumstances. It's just that in the League of CC&Dash, he's really lacking in many situations, which is too bad. Of course I didn't try him in the jungle, but I don't really see him not having the same problems he has while in lane.

As for Sejuani, I actually thought she was pretty good. People have been playing a lot of Nautilus recently, and I don't Sejuani being much less effective than Nauti. Seju clears the jungle fairly well, has nice ganks with the slows and knockup from Q, and with ultimate they are just godly. Sejuani's ult is just crazy good at initiating fights, and while building tanky with the addition of Sunfire Cape and Liandry's he actually deals really good damage aswell.

[StNimrod]

Anyone played the new Trundle and Sejuani yet? I normally don't care much about the reworks but this time I had to try a few games with both since they were free

Both are good, and always have been. Trundle had minor changes so if you didn't like him then, you wouldn't now.

Sejuani has really easy ganks now, great jungler to try out.

[Deleted]

I don't agree with this statement.
Champions are designed to have a certain role and a unique method of performing this role.
Items enhance champions, but do not define them.

I agree with this to an extent. There is also champions with multiple effective item paths that also changes their playstyle pretty drastically.

To name a few:

• Elise: AP, Support or Tank
• Ezreal: AD or AP
• Master Yi: AD or AP
• Lee Sin: AD assassin or Tank
• Zyra: AP or Support

These are examples of champions that are played differently depending on how they build, and all of them are perfectly viable for solo queue play. They're also viable (and have been used) in tournament play, with the exception of AD Yi.

[Deleted]

Because he's outdated, which is exactly what Riot gave as their reason for updating him.
If you've ever played any game before you'd see how his current look is less generic than his previous.
Opinions are fine as long as you don't wave them around like a massive flag.
Riot decided he needed an update, made him fit in with the current events and I'm pretty sure they know more about it than you do.

This is a forum, we're discussing opinions. Problem?
If YOU'VE ever played a game before you'd realize how (to an extent) unique his old looks were, I haven't seen a filty Troll who's skill is falling off in a long time, his "ice troll" however isn't very original.

And sure, Riot know's best. There's absolutely no evidence that begs to differ. *cough* release Xin *cough* -- and many more; hell, I even called Thresh OP and he'd be prone to get nerfed. Same goes for Jayce before his nerfs, I also called Nasus OP after his recent buffs (he just got nerfed a bit). Yes, Riot know's best. And honestly, the only reason they changed him up is to make him fit into this "freljord"-bullshit theme.

They should change Shyvana's W (think that's her burn, memory dead) to apply a slow on the enemy on basic atack, max 5 stacks (like 10% slow per stack?).
Her Q would apply 2 instantly ofc, and her ult would apply them in AoE kindoff like Frozen Gauntlet.

Honestly, they should figure out what the fuck they want to do with her.

A) Make her the objective-based champion that she was in S2 and buff her clearing speed (base damage on W, give it a bit scaling?)
B) Give her some actual ganking tools. Have her E slow targets, possibly make it a bit of an AE effect (for the slow only) to make it more consistent

Giving her perma-slow like that would just make her overpowered.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 02:27 PM ----------

I don't agree with this statement.
Champions are designed to have a certain role and a unique method of performing this role.
Items enhance champions, but do not define them.

Trundle is desinged to a disruptive tank. Items enhance that, it doesn't define it.

[Aydinx2]

I agree with this to an extent. There is also champions with multiple effective item paths that also changes their playstyle pretty drastically.

Zyra AP or Support doesn't change the playstyle much, it just changes the damage of your abilities and your survivability, in the end you will still be snaring and placing plants.
Yi will always be diving and assassinating.
Lee will keep juking and ganking.
Ezreal will keep shooting skillshots.
Elise will keep stunning and using %hp to dmg the enemies.

Sure items can change your approach at combat a bit differently, but as I said, it enhances the champions, it does not define them.
If they did you could build the same items on sona and mundo and be exactly as effective in all roles.

[Deleted]

Zyra AP or Support doesn't change the playstyle much, it just changes the damage of your abilities and your survivability, in the end you will still be snaring and placing plants.
Yi will always be diving and assassinating.
Lee will keep juking and ganking.
Ezreal will keep shooting skillshots.
Elise will keep stunning and using %hp to dmg the enemies.

You're right about Zyra, yes.
Playing AD and AP Yi is quite different, AD Yi in itself is pretty unique in LoL, you try to get as farmed as possible and avoid CC's while killing everyone. AP Yi is similar in the sense that he has to avoid CC but other than that he works much more like say, a Katarina.

The difference between Lee Sin when played as an assassin instead of a tank is also pretty big. You're squishy and your job is to assassinate a high priority target. As a tank his job is to disrupt the flow of the teamfight while guarding his teammates.

Ezreal, AP relies on heavy burst and assassination + AoE ult's in big teamfights. As AD he relies on auto attack damage and kiting (to a much greater extent than when playing as AP).

Elise Support and Tank is fairly similar in that your job is to disrupt the flow of the fight. As AP your job is often to take out a high priority target with your gapcloser.

These might all sound like pretty minor things, but a lot of the difference between champions are also pretty "minor". What changes between the builds is essentially how careful you have to be, what target you're going for, what part of the game you excel at (early/mid/late).

[Aydinx2]

And honestly, the only reason they changed him up is to make him fit into this "freljord"-bullshit theme.

Provide a source?
Trundle needed to be changed, there is no questioning this.
Much like shyvana now, trundle had no good gap closers.

Champions have always been OP at release, probably so they sell better.
And who cares? They're giving an awesome game for free without you ever having to pay for it.
Sorry that they want to make money to feed their employees.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 12:35 PM ----------

...

Am actually thinking we might we talking about different subjects right now.
I'm referring to the things that make a champion "THAT champion", not the role that the champion is filling.

[Deleted]

Am actually thinking we might we talking about different subjects right now.
I'm referring to the things that make a champion "THAT champion", not the role that the champion is filling.

I guess we are. I personally think what role they're playing in the game slightly changes the champion as a whole as well though, since the kit is used differently.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I don't agree with this statement.
Champions are designed to have a certain role and a unique method of performing this role.
Items enhance champions, but do not define them.

No, they don't. What you said is correct. That doesn't mean what I said is wrong though. Perhaps I worded it a bit wrong.

Every champion has its 'designed' role. Players can choose to stray from this role into another one, or play by it. However, champions have to be designed around items, in order to be able to balance them. They have to keep every item, and spell effect in mind when designing a champion.

There will always be an ideal item build for a champion, because of its design.

[Deleted]

There will always be an ideal item build for a champion, because of its design.

The "ideal build" can change depending on the scenario. In certain comps or versus certain comps a more unorthodox build path can be the ideal path.

But yes, there will always be a cookie-cutter build path that will work best in most scenarios.

[Deleted]

Provide a source?
Trundle needed to be changed, there is no questioning this.
Much like shyvana now, trundle had no good gap closers.

Champions have always been OP at release, probably so they sell better.
And who cares? They're giving an awesome game for free without you ever having to pay for it.
Sorry that they want to make money to feed their employees.

Oh give me a break, champions aren't OP on release to make them sell, good lord, that's some serious conspiracy theories you got there.
Besides, not all champions have been OP at release, hell, some have even been underwhelming to say the least, at release.

I'm not complaining about it; I'm just saying that Riot are not flawless, they do not always know best.

Trundle needed QoL changes, I'm not saying his kit-changes are bad, they're just different, he was fine before and he's a little better now.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 03:07 PM ----------

The "ideal build" can change depending on the scenario. In certain comps or versus certain comps a more unorthodox build path can be the ideal path.

But yes, there will always be a cookie-cutter build path that will work best in most scenarios.

Your build doesn't change at all.

Or well, you 'goal' doesn't change. You change your basic stats, whether you need armor, magic resistance - armor or magic penetration, your goal is still the same. You'll still be going for the tanky role, supporty role or damagy role.

That is unless you change it completely to try something new, but there'll almost always be a "best way to build X champion"

[Deleted]

If you've ever played any game before you'd see how his current look is less generic than his previous.

Here's my severely inaccurate backloggery.

Opinions are fine as long as you don't wave them around like a massive flag.

You mean like...you're doing?

Riot decided he needed an update, made him fit in with the current events and I'm pretty sure they know more about it than you do.

If Riot are flawless, why do you even bother arguing? Flawless beings don't need protection from criticism, criticism doesn't affect a flawless being.

like shyvana now, trundle had no good gap closers.

Need gap closer and %health damage 4 da meta.

[Aydinx2]

[QUOTE=Sivalion;21058872]
Trundle needed QoL changes, I'm not saying his kit-changes are bad, they're just different, he was fine before and he's a little better now.[QUOTE]

Well no need to be so patronizing.
You did see that I typed "probably" there, it was just an observation.

And as I've been trying to tell you the entire time, Trundle did need quality changes.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 01:16 PM ----------

Here's my severely inaccurate backloggery.


You mean like...you're doing?

If Riot are flawless, why do you even bother arguing? Flawless beings don't need protection from criticism, criticism doesn't affect a flawless being.


Need gap closer and %health damage 4 da meta.

1. I don't get what the backloggery is.
2. Provide something to clarify.
3. Could you please quote me the exact sentence where I said "Riot is flawless".
4. Where did I say she needed a %health damage?

Stop putting words in my mouth (keyboard), it's annoying.

Apparently saying that a company that developed a game with professional programmers, designers and editors knows more about games than a random person on a forum makes me a fanboy who thinks the company is flawless.

[Deleted]

1. I don't get what the backloggery is.

It's a website to keep track of the games you've played. C and B means I've finished them and U means I haven't. Even if what you said was quite hypobolic, I believe I've passed the implied "lots of games" barrier you've set up to be able to comment on how generic or not a troll character is.

2. Provide something to clarify.

Nobody ever talked about trundle, now he gets fixed (yes, fixed) and suddenly all these people who care and preferred his old version.
If trundle was any good before, riot wouldn't have fixed him. Point.

Clarify what? You said it. If you want an example, I've provided one above.

3. Could you please quote me the exact sentence where I said "Riot is flawless".

No I couldn't because I can't quote words that exist between lines. I have a place in mind where it is heavily implied, however.
Like here.

4. Where did I say she needed a %health damage?

Nowhere, actually, I was mostly poking fun at Riot for that one.

[Deleted]

Well no need to be so patronizing.
You did see that I typed "probably" there, it was just an observation.

And as I've been trying to tell you the entire time, Trundle did need quality changes.

No, you said it's "because it problaly sells better"; you said it as a fact that every champion were OP at release. Which is wrong.

Yes, QoL changes, as in attack and Q animations because they were utterly retarded. Nothing else needed to be changed.

[Duronos]

Trundle is OP, just play him correctly. I'm sorry but I don't comfortably make him my best champion within a week. I hope he's not hit with the nerf bat.