The League of Legends thread

[Jibjabb]

I dont think you need 2 tank intiators on a team. Just one should suffice, and you can even work with zero if you know you can just stomp the shit out of them but ofc thats risky.

[Exroyal]

All you need is a team building full dps. Obviously.

[Drikkink]

I dont think you need 2 tank intiators on a team. Just one should suffice, and you can even work with zero if you know you can just stomp the shit out of them but ofc thats risky.

I don't count leona and thresh as real initiators. Well, Leona I guess, but Thresh is reliant on catching someone with his hook. At least Leona can preemptively ult, then E.

[Simulacrum]

Pretty much. I firmly believe that until someone plays competitively or are very high diamond/challenger that what they pick really doesn't matter. As long as the player is trying, knows what their champion can do and isn't trolling, then most picks are legitimate. Imo there are very few champions right now that aren't viable picks, or fill a strong niche. There will always be someone on the receiving end of the nerf bat, but unless they get olaf'd they are more than likely still in a decent spot.

I don't understand this idea that playing the strongest champions only matters if you're playing at the highest level. If they give an edge there, they give an edge everywhere else as well. Sometimes really big edges, so massive that you automatically lose your lane so hard that the game may as well be a 4v5 in the favour of your enemies.

When I face master yi top, as renekton, I don't go equal with him because I'm not diamond/challenger and picks don't matter below that skill level... I smash him completely, deny all his farm, dive him for kills, invade their jungle, then eat him and his jungle at the same time if they try to 2v1 me, and there's nothing he can do about it.

[Soulstrike]

3-0 that promotion to challenger

posted pic on other thread :P

[Deleted]

I don't understand this idea that playing the strongest champions only matters if you're playing at the highest level. If they give an edge there, they give an edge everywhere else as well. Sometimes really big edges, so massive that you automatically lose your lane so hard that the game may as well be a 4v5 in the favour of your enemies.

When I face master yi top, as renekton, I don't go equal with him because I'm not diamond/challenger and picks don't matter below that skill level... I smash him completely, deny all his farm, dive him for kills, invade their jungle, then eat him and his jungle at the same time if they try to 2v1 me, and there's nothing he can do about it.

That is because you're counter to yi, that doesn't make rene better than yi (although he probably is alittle stronger atm, but not because of your logic).

Kayle was considered OP before nerf but anivia could still win vs her, does that make Anivia even more OP?

[Isrozzis]

I don't understand this idea that playing the strongest champions only matters if you're playing at the highest level. If they give an edge there, they give an edge everywhere else as well. Sometimes really big edges, so massive that you automatically lose your lane so hard that the game may as well be a 4v5 in the favour of your enemies.

When I face master yi top, as renekton, I don't go equal with him because I'm not diamond/challenger and picks don't matter below that skill level... I smash him completely, deny all his farm, dive him for kills, invade their jungle, then eat him and his jungle at the same time if they try to 2v1 me, and there's nothing he can do about it.

You missed my point a little bit. Renekton is going to beat Yi in lane most of the time because Renekton's early game is very strong and Yi's early game is not. A good Yi player however will know this, and not expose himself to taking harass that he shouldn't and focus on farming as much as he can without dying, then wait for team fights to really explode.

So what i'm saying is that if you know a champion well you know it's strengths and weaknesses and you can play to those and be successful no matter what you are put against in lane. A good Yi player will also realize that he shouldn't pick Yi into Renekton.

[Jibjabb]

what they pick really doesn't matter.

A good Yi player will also realize that he shouldn't pick Yi into Renekton.

Kind of contradicts yourself. Sounded like you said as long as u know how to play you can pick anything for any situation and that flat out isnt true since lots of matchups put you at a severe disadvantage. I really believe theres no reason to pick non conventional picks unless you know for a fact its the best for the situation, if not then why gimp yourself? Goal is to win the game, so play what makes it easiest to win

[Axethor]

Kind of contradicts yourself. Sounded like you said as long as u know how to play you can pick anything for any situation and that flat out isnt true since lots of matchups put you at a severe disadvantage. I really believe theres no reason to pick non conventional picks unless you know for a fact its the best for the situation, if not then why gimp yourself? Goal is to win the game, so play what makes it easiest to win

I could play Kassadin because he makes it easiest to win, but we will still lose because I am a horrendous Kassadin player. Easiest to win is subjective based on player skill with the champion they chose to use that match, which is the TL;DR of what Isro is trying to say.

[Jibjabb]

I could play Kassadin because he makes it easiest to win, but we will still lose because I am a horrendous Kassadin player. Easiest to win is subjective based on player skill with the champion they chose to use that match, which is the TL;DR of what Isro is trying to say.

In the end you end you are essentially agreeing with me. Since I said "unless you know for a fact its the best for the situation" which I believe would cover the "well I suck at playing anyone else" category. Like I still play evelynn jungler which isnt popular (anymore) but I do it cause I know Im good at it and it gives us the best chance to win with my skillset.

But just earlier today our bot lane was locked in as Cait/Leona. And the enemy team then after seein this locks in the Zilean support and I start laughing. Well guess what their bot lane gets steamrolled on cause Zilean sucks vs that composition. And that helped us ease into beasting them in late game as well. This is what I mean by who you pick matters. Or other examples like taking a kennen top when your mid is ahri and your jungle is fiddlesticks. For sure you can win, if youre a lot better. If its about even, high chance you will lose for picking a stupid champion.

[Isrozzis]

What I'm getting at is that until you hit a very high level of play, players lack the ability to fully exploit the weaknesses of their lane opponent. I'm not saying you should pick Yi every game since he does have a lot of poor matchups, but that you should never be constrained to meta champions. Yes there are times when picking a certain champion is going to be a bad idea, but the vast majority of the time it's not a big concern. I don't think I made that very clear before.

And for what it's worth, the kennen pick you say is quite bad seems pretty good to me. You have double AoE death circles with a good amount of CC and double zhonyas. Seems like your team fight would be really solid. As a bit of an aside teams don't have to be cookie cutter bruiser / tank / mage / support / ad. There is so much variance that works, that restricting yourself to sub roles inside of a role is a foolish notion.

[Deleted]

I HAD A UNICORN IN MY GAME YESTERDAY.
HIS NAME IS KASSAWIN.

He was lagging and vs Fizz, but he played pretty passively and I camped the living shit out of that lane, so he got the ball rolling.
We won. Easily. But Kassadin wasn't the only contributer, since my AD was also legendary.

[Jibjabb]

I HAD A UNICORN IN MY GAME YESTERDAY.
HIS NAME IS KASSAWIN.

He was lagging and vs Fizz, but he played pretty passively and I camped the living shit out of that lane, so he got the ball rolling.
We won. Easily. But Kassadin wasn't the only contributer, since my AD was also legendary.

Too many kassadin players dont realize all that matters for early kassadin is experience, which is staying alive at the sake of farm. Its kinda like playing a Nasus vs Teemo cept at least Kassadin only needs to hit 6 to start fighting back while Nasus usually needs a lot longer. Too many Kass just wanna keep up with farm and take skill shots to the face and eventually they die/leave lane and wonder how OP kassadin is so behind

[Deleted]

Does anyone know how to report script users (like the obvious Cassio one) ? Had the misfortune of facing yet another one and I'm kinda fed up with this shit. Yes I know this is pointless but I want to report this guy anyway.

won my game anyway (their cass went 0/4 despite it because she was a complete moron) but this is pretty disgusting to see..

Support ticket I think, specially if you have footage to prove it.

~~~

Back on the "optimal vs 'weak' champs" topic: I think the meta exists for a reason but I don't think you have to follow it strictly to win, most of the time. But, sometimes, you KNOW you will win just by looking at team composition. For instance, look at this match up:

Purple (my team):
Malphite (top)
Vi (jungle - me)
Lux (mid)
Jinx (adc)
Leona (support)

Blue (enemy):
Akali (top)
Jax (jungle)
Ziggs (mid)
Ezreal (adc)
Nunu (support)

You don't need to be Montecristo to realize who clearly has the setup advantage here and as soon as lvl 6s were reached it was made clear. Jax couldn't pull almost any decent ganks due to the lack of CC in his lanes (an on himself) plus all our lanes had some form of CC/snare.
Second, I could easily get a kill every time my ulti was up (honestly, every time I used it we did get a kill).

I could just walk up to mid, and all I needed was Ziggs to be out of tower range. Ulti in, Lux does her binding crap, dead Ziggs.
Top all I had to do was drop a pink ward, didn't even need to ult if Malphite had his ult up.
Bot was hard due to Nunu's ult and Ezreal's E so I just decided to kill Nunu every time, problem solved.

And when it came to team fights it was even worse, since they little to no CC and very poor initiation whilst we had my ult, Malph's and Leona's.
So yes, fotm champions are so for a reason but sometimes they aren't enough if they don't do anything for the team. Ziggs is definitely part of the current meta while Lux is seen, generally, as a weak pick, yet she was much more influential due to her shields and CC which helped us secure back to back flawless aces.

[Ergar]

Does anyone here play toplane zac? Im curious on how to build him. Normally i just go full tank with sunfire, randuins, warmogs, spirit visage and something like banshee's. So i was just wondering is it worth it to build the liandry's torment on him? Since you already got decent damage from your spammable W, which you will get off on like 2-3 people constantly during teamfights.

[Deleted]

Does anyone here play toplane zac? Im curious on how to build him. Normally i just go full tank with sunfire, randuins, warmogs, spirit visage and something like banshee's. So i was just wondering is it worth it to build the liandry's torment on him? Since you already got decent damage from your spammable W, which you will get off on like 2-3 people constantly during teamfights.

I've played him a fair bit, also against. I would advise against building damage unless you are really stomping, since you HAVE to be in the centre of the fight to deal damage or be usefull. Its a good choice if you want some extra damage, but you could also consider Abyssal or Hourglass (for style points, or burning their ults).

Unless their team has 0 AP, I'd say Spirit Visage is core.

[Noxina]

I like to go full tank on Zac, just because I dive in and mess up their team. If my team needs more ap dmg I go Liandry's, if not I got Abyssal I guess, if they got alot of AD and AtkSpeed I get a Thronmail, just because its fun..

[Axethor]

Does anyone here play toplane zac? Im curious on how to build him. Normally i just go full tank with sunfire, randuins, warmogs, spirit visage and something like banshee's. So i was just wondering is it worth it to build the liandry's torment on him? Since you already got decent damage from your spammable W, which you will get off on like 2-3 people constantly during teamfights.

I don't play him, but I was matched against one twice during my ranked team practice this week. He rushed SV the second game against my Shyv, the first I played Trundle and I think he build Sunfire first. Both times they did full tank. Since his W deals %health damage, you don't need a lot of AP. Penetration is good, but unneeded since you shouldn't focus on damage but disruption.

I would say Liandry's, Sunfire, SV, Randiun's, Warmogs/Abyssal/Thormail/etc would be a good build. I just wouldn't upgrade the Liandry's for a while and sit on Haunting Guise until you have Sunfire and/or SV.

[Isrozzis]

I've seen a lot of people get a haunting guise and sit on that while they build tank items then eventually finish it when they can. But for the most part it's full tank.

- - - Updated - - -

his point is pretty much that
1) if you hit the highest level of play, odds are that you won't be able to outplay your opponent enough to win with a lesser pick. thus, picks matter.
2) when playing at a lesser level of play, sure getting a better pick would help, but there are also plenty of ways to outplay people and win anyway, so while a stronger pick would help, what should you blame for losses isn't the champ but all the other things you could have done better.

at least that's how i see it. and by lesser level of play I think this still applies to diamond level, so it certainly also applies to levels under that. nearly every soloqueue game is winnable, even if you let your opponents get a big lead you just have to wait for them to eventually throw, which will happen in the majority of games as long as you know how to capitalize on mistakes.

That's a pretty good summary of what I was trying to say.

[NotValidAnymore]

So you guys are saying that you have to play OP champs to be successful? Lame.