[Ret] Trinket ratings estimation [Dragon Soul 4.3+]

[Neldarie]

Guess all 3 trinkets are usefull:

BLF: trash/Yor
Apparatus: Hagara(if ya use cds on pull here you're abit dumb), Spine, Madness(normal) + heroic depending on lineups.
Creche: tankspank-type of shit so Mork, Zonozz, Ultrax, Gunship, (Madness heroic depending on line-ups).

[Ryann]

Just got heroic Crèche last night. I should know this, but anyone know a good addon to track its ICD?

Also, has anyone had trouble with it not proccing for 60-90s into the fight? Right after we dropped Ultraxion heroic we jumped into second half LFR and I use prot 4pc, planned on popping CDs as soon as it popped, but had to blow zeal/aw at :25, then crèche never popped til 45 sec left on CDs. Also did that to a lesser degree on madness. Bad luck, or the norm?

Edit: Also, does Crèche and apparatus share cd? I'd check but I'm at work. Was thinking because Spine only drops dodge and int trinkets, perhaps using Crèche/App together, seems like they'd work well together in theory (until a EoU drops anyway). Prepot/4pc guaradian > Crèche proc > 5crit+zeal/aw > apparatus.

[Deleted]

Just got heroic Crèche last night. I should know this, but anyone know a good addon to track its ICD?

Also, has anyone had trouble with it not proccing for 60-90s into the fight? Right after we dropped Ultraxion heroic we jumped into second half LFR and I use prot 4pc, planned on popping CDs as soon as it popped, but had to blow zeal/aw at :25, then crèche never popped til 45 sec left on CDs. Also did that to a lesser degree on madness. Bad luck, or the norm?

Edit: Also, does Crèche and apparatus share cd? I'd check but I'm at work. Was thinking because Spine only drops dodge and int trinkets, perhaps using Crèche/App together, seems like they'd work well together in theory (until a EoU drops anyway). Prepot/4pc guaradian > Crèche proc > 5crit+zeal/aw > apparatus.

If you doing heroic spine and your guild is waiting 2 min for tendons you can line up both trinkets(H AOK + H Creche) for maximum burst yes

[Ryann]

Not working on spine yet. Just meant on a regular cd usage fight. Crèche seems dumb for spine either way. It's going to proc on the trash before tendon and not necessarily going to be 2 min from amalgamation>tendon.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Allright I got a thinker for you all, I have the following;
Heroic Apperatus.
Normal Creche.
LFR Eye of Unmaking.

Just by the dps gain charts Apperatus and Creche should be the ideal setup, but if Creche procs right before I activate apperatus then apperatus will give crit instead of the desired mastery.

I'm guessing Apperatus and LFR Eye of Unmaking will be the best combination but it's really close and if you're REALLY good with tracking the ICD of Creche then you could time your whole CD chains 5sec before it becomes active again and maybe be lucky and have creche proc while you have everything else up.

Just by judging pure STR Creche and LFR Eye of Unmaking is the clear winners but the mastery from apperatus is quite insane with 4set T13 and other cds, infact I had a crit on normal madness today for 445k (templars verdict + hand of light combined ofc) and that was with Apperatus and Eye of Unmaking (lfr)

So... what to do?

[Requital]

Just got heroic Crèche last night. I should know this, but anyone know a good addon to track its ICD?

Also, has anyone had trouble with it not proccing for 60-90s into the fight? Right after we dropped Ultraxion heroic we jumped into second half LFR and I use prot 4pc, planned on popping CDs as soon as it popped, but had to blow zeal/aw at :25, then crèche never popped til 45 sec left on CDs. Also did that to a lesser degree on madness. Bad luck, or the norm?

Edit: Also, does Crèche and apparatus share cd? I'd check but I'm at work. Was thinking because Spine only drops dodge and int trinkets, perhaps using Crèche/App together, seems like they'd work well together in theory (until a EoU drops anyway). Prepot/4pc guaradian > Crèche proc > 5crit+zeal/aw > apparatus.

I would probably use Proculas to capture the ICD of just about anything. Here is a screenshot from my Warrior after a few bosses in DS last night I run with the normal CoFD on him and in the screenshot the buff is called Find Weakness & the ICD on it bounces between 2 mins and 1.92 mins.



For my Ret I've had shit for luck on trinkets but I do find any boss I can effectively use the 4PC prepull trick I can get more bang for the buck out of the CoFD over the AoK.

[Ryann]

I'll check it out, thanks Req

[NaaBcAke]

I took HC Creche today, will try it for a bit, with HC BLF untill i get normal EoU, instead apparatus , i got frustarted today after not geting one stack for first 30+ seconds on HC Ultraxion. Wanted to DE it, but then i remembered all nice moments we shared in firelands
Even tho i really hate crit proc trinkets, HC Creche raw stat power is really ridic, with that 517 str and 3200 crit proc..tho ofc, crit as crit is relative unlike good old master
Anyway will have to play around swaping trinkets on different bosses, even tho i had good results with hc aparatus so far (cept on ultrax) i just feel like i need to give chance to everything, considering BIS trinkets are not set in stone atm..

[Butosai]

I would probably use Proculas to capture the ICD of just about anything. Here is a screenshot from my Warrior after a few bosses in DS last night I run with the normal CoFD on him and in the screenshot the buff is called Find Weakness & the ICD on it bounces between 2 mins and 1.92 mins.



For my Ret I've had shit for luck on trinkets but I do find any boss I can effectively use the 4PC prepull trick I can get more bang for the buck out of the CoFD over the AoK.

Thats pretty decent, on a warrior. the wording says procs off of any damage so is that counting seals? It seems odd that it have a very good icd on warrior yet it takes 30+ seconds to proc for ret sometimes.

Edit: nevermind, seems the post a few above was talking about apparatus and not creche. But im still interested to see if its proccing off of seals because that would make it proc very shortly after the 115 and not line up as nicely as it possibly could

[pbad]

Like most proc trinkets, it has a relatively high proc rate and you can bet on it procing within a few seconds of the CD coming off. I wouldn't get caught up in what abilities are able to proc it.

[Requital]

Thats pretty decent, on a warrior. the wording says procs off of any damage so is that counting seals? It seems odd that it have a very good icd on warrior yet it takes 30+ seconds to proc for ret sometimes.

Edit: nevermind, seems the post a few above was talking about apparatus and not creche. But im still interested to see if its proccing off of seals because that would make it proc very shortly after the 115 and not line up as nicely as it possibly could

I'll test it and see if I can see if it's procing on seals.

[Megraam]

Just got heroic Crèche last night. I should know this, but anyone know a good addon to track its ICD?

Also, has anyone had trouble with it not proccing for 60-90s into the fight? Right after we dropped Ultraxion heroic we jumped into second half LFR and I use prot 4pc, planned on popping CDs as soon as it popped, but had to blow zeal/aw at :25, then crèche never popped til 45 sec left on CDs. Also did that to a lesser degree on madness. Bad luck, or the norm?

There is a smaaaaall possibility that you've equipped Creche just before combat, thus resetting its internal cd. Maybe accidentally, maybe due to different trinket positions in your 4p11 prepull macro (swapping trinkets resets it as well). Could you check it?

Edit: Also, does Crèche and apparatus share cd? I'd check but I'm at work. Was thinking because Spine only drops dodge and int trinkets, perhaps using Crèche/App together, seems like they'd work well together in theory (until a EoU drops anyway). Prepot/4pc guaradian > Crèche proc > 5crit+zeal/aw > apparatus.

I don't think apparatus proccing crit is a good idea and it will definitely proc crit this way.

[Deleted]

I also got heroic creche last night and i can confirm that it does indeed proc from SoT ticks.
Mine usually procced after my first judgement already,out of the 13 pulls on blackhorn that evening ,9 times it procced off first attack (judgement) on pull,3 times it procced after attacking +/- 5 sec and only 1 time it only procced after 30sec of attacks.

Its pretty amazing if you can line it up with all your cooldowns + apparatus mastery buff

[Megraam]

Its pretty amazing if you can line it up with all your cooldowns + apparatus mastery buff

You have creche procced and your apparatus still procced mastery? Can I check your log?

[Deleted]

You have creche procced and your apparatus still procced mastery? Can I check your log?

if your tracking the icd of the trinket you use aparatus right before itcomes off so it's mastery

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Just to update my previous post.

Did some testing with Creche of the Final Dragon (normal) and found posts that it has a 100sec ICD, my testing I've never gotten it to proc before 115seconds (stood for 45minutes) Is it just RNG or does anyone also found this? Reason why It's importaint for me atleast is to get the most out of the proc when it's up while i activate all my other CDs right before it's ICD is done. When you crit 200k on bosses without damage modifications the ~15% crit that Creche proc gives is very much awesomelike...


Anyways if anyone has gotten it to proc really close to 100seconds from eachother I'd be extremely grateful tho them.

*note*
I'll keep testing on my own and edit this post if I somehow get it to proc earlier etc, trying everything from finding lots of mobs to divine storm etc.

*edit*
got it to proc after 114seconds, still testing.

[Kisko]

So BLF is a legitimately viable trinket for all the fights in DS, considering I won't be getting creche over our warriors and we've had 0 drop thus far?

BLF is decent for all fights and BiS for AoE, it was high in the draft version of rankings too.

Kisko pls re-check eventually mistakes - Crenche 1st place and AoK so high? Just asking if it isn't a mistake.

I'd like to reiterate on the value of Creche.
Logs of rets I've been looking through indicate that ICD on it is 115s and it takes some time to proc it - about 5 sec, but can be off by a couple seconds.
(In theory it can creep out of sync if it procs instantly on 115 second all the time, but I don't see that happen in real logs).

Examples of times between procs:

122.0s, 118.5s, 119.4s, 117.7s, 123.7s

Since it hovers around 120s it's a perfect trinket if you can use AW/Z on CD and it's BiS by far in this case.
What about fights where you can't? It's still BiS if you can line it up at least once ( case at rankings).

Crit is a dps stat and very good one, being close to Mastery for us, even if some people don't believe it.
Large crits during CD phase do happen, we all know it, and AoK users count on them in a same way Creche users do.

Just to update my previous post.

Did some testing with Creche of the Final Dragon (normal) and found posts that it has a 100sec ICD, my testing I've never gotten it to proc before 115seconds (stood for 45minutes) Is it just RNG or does anyone also found this? Reason why It's importaint for me atleast is to get the most out of the proc when it's up while i activate all my other CDs right before it's ICD is done. When you crit 200k on bosses without damage modifications the ~15% crit that Creche proc gives is very much awesomelike...

ICD on it is 115s + 5s to proc. It's on first page for those who missed it.

You don't want it to proc early than that for obvious reasons, it will only make trinket worse.

Tbh, I don't quite understand what the hell you talking about here. You do realize ICD counted from the moment proc happening, right?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

ICD on it is 115s + 5s to proc. It's on first page for those who missed it.

You don't want it to proc early than that for obvious reasons, it will only make trinket worse.

Tbh, I don't quite understand what the hell you talking about here. You do realize ICD counted from the moment proc happening, right?

Yes I'm aware the ICD starts from proc start, read on warrior forums that ICD was 100seconds but couldn't get it to proc at all before atleast 115ish seconds. When I know the trinket ICD was off (just went out of combat for 2-3 minutes) the proc happened before 5seconds usually, anyways cleared it up finally, thanks!

The reason why I was wondering was because I read on warrior forums that it had a 100sec ICD which would make it somewhat bad because of Apperatus which we want to get mastery from, since I stood like a fool for 45-60minutes and couldn't get it to proc at all before ~115sec I was wondering if it was terrible RNG or the ICD was wrong from what I read on warrior forums.

And I'm aware that crit isn't a "terrible" secondary stat for us atm but mastery is slightly ahead and thus I'd like to have AoK give me the huge mastery increase, but it's all cleared up now. Thanks again for the lists and numbers

[bigred]

"I can effectively use the 4PC prepull trick"

I'm not familiar with this technique. Could someone shed some light on that for me? I may not even have the desired gear set up to make it viable, but just thought I would learn something new if I could.

[Deleted]

"I can effectively use the 4PC prepull trick"

I'm not familiar with this technique. Could someone shed some light on that for me? I may not even have the desired gear set up to make it viable, but just thought I would learn something new if I could.

The tier 11 prot set has this 4piece bonus

(4) Set: Increases the duration of your Guardian of Ancient Kings ability by 50%.

If you equip them before pull , use the GoAK you get the increased duration on him, switch back to Ret gear right before pull and profit.