[Ret] Trinket ratings estimation [Dragon Soul 4.3+]

[Deleted]

That's quite what I was doing in the end except I didn't synch AW et zeal because no 4P T12 and someone on EJ (prolifik from premonition I believe) said that it gave good results as opening to delay Zeal until the end of AW to use it with the maximum of AoK stacks, and cast the maximum of TVs. With the 4T11 prot bonus "clever usage of game mechanic" I could still use zeal during GotAK.
Thanks for the info on the delay limit, that's what I was searching
And btw DPS ranking on a static fight like baleroc are not that meaningful, good or bad RNG can make a bad gear/itemized player better than a perfect one (no disrespect for Prentice btw /o\ )

[Kisko]

Delaying only works if you know how long fight going to take and you will not lose extra CD.

For example, if your Baleroc kills aren't quite perfect and last more than enrage, then any delaying of CDs is a guaranteed dps loss (4th AW starts at ~6:10).

DPS ranking on non-static fights is even less meaningful for any analysis, obviously. Prentice is pretty consistent at ranking, wouldn't call that a fluke.

[Deleted]

DPS ranking on non-static fights is even less meaningful for any analysis, obviously. Prentice is pretty consistent at ranking, wouldn't call that a fluke.

What I wanted to mean is just that evaluating an opening sequence on a ranking isn't necessarily right, as a good RNG with a bad sequence will perform better a good sequence with meh RNG. I'm not saying by any means that his ranking in particular is due to good RNG.
And I disagree somewhat about non static fights, as it will favor players that know how to maximize their uptime on mobs. But we're getting off topic, thanks a lot for the theorycrafting and the answers you gave

[Kinmaul]

Considering your raids total dps is one of the biggest factors in how well you parse I'd say referring to WoL rankings as "proof" of anything is borderline retarded. It's a great tool to analyze your play, but if we are going to start using "top parsers" as sources you might as well delete your spreadsheets, uninstall simcraft, and destroy your calculator with your massive epeen.

Cool it, and pay attention to the bananas next time. - Hitsurugi

[Kisko]

What I wanted to mean is just that evaluating an opening sequence on a ranking isn't necessarily right, as a good RNG with a bad sequence will perform better a good sequence with meh RNG. I'm not saying by any means that his ranking in particular is due to good RNG.
And I disagree somewhat about non static fights, as it will favor players that know how to maximize their uptime on mobs. But we're getting off topic, thanks a lot for the theorycrafting and the answers you gave

I agree that it's not necessarily right, I just trying to scratch some facts to test the theory. Vodka ret always seems to wait for 5 stacks and it works for him pretty well too. We talking less than 100 dps difference here, anyway, which will be lost completely in a sea of RNG, what Ret has become lately.
And you are very welcome.

[Requital]

The break point is approximately 32s delay. You will do as much dps delaying CDs for 32s as popping AoK with just 2 stacks without delaying them. If you delay more, you will lose dps.
To determine it I ran some numbers for AoK, using 40s, 30s, 20s delays and comparing with reference value at front page. Please see notes and read post about FoA if you want to understand logic and math behind.

You shouldn't sit with 2 stacks. Use them. It's better than wasting full round of CDs on Baleroc.
Open with pot and GoAK, wait 10 seconds, make sure you have 3HP/DP and 20 GoAK stacks, pop AW/Zeal and whatever stacks of AoK you have. With 4P you can do Zeal earlier. All that should nicely line up with hero/lust, since most guilds should do it shortly after pull.

This strat works, trust me, or, if you don't trust me, ask Prentice, he have #5 world parse with it.

Let's not forget Prentice uses 4PC T11 for that parse as well which I'd venture to say the top 10 parses all do.

[boneyjellyfish]

So I'm thinking about the possibility of using Dwyer's Caber with Apparatus of Khaz'goroth as a trinket combination, since I'm way over 26 expertise (so no heart of rage). Anyway, it seems to me like using Dwyer's Caber with the Apparatus would be good to help stack titanic power faster, but the main issue is that the proc can bring total crit rating beyond total mastery rating. Would it be a good idea to make a macro that simple cancels the caber proc and then uses the apparatus, or should I use the heart of rage with the apparatus, leave the expertise as-is and use the glyph of CS instead of truth?

[Andrakus]

Hey Guys! Hope you can help me out. I was a happy Ret this morning with rep trinket and AoK. Did fine with stacks and all. We killed Ragny and got VoA.. Changing it for the rep trinket will get my mastery very low. Any suggestions? (thanks!)Avalard - Ragnaros [US]

[Pivotpony]

Hey Guys! Hope you can help me out. I was a happy Ret this morning with rep trinket and AoK. Did fine with stacks and all. We killed Ragny and got VoA.. Changing it for the rep trinket will get my mastery very low. Any suggestions? (thanks!)Avalard - Ragnaros [US]

Mastery is not you strongest stat, strenght is. With VoA you will get almost 100 more strenght, but lose the ability to line it up with CDs. And you get almost the exact amount of crit, as you would get mastery, and the difference in each stat isn't that great. I would say go for VoA.

Or, according to the OP, you could switch out AoK for VoA, as it's a dps increase as well.. But I would pass on VoA for a lesser geared char if it was possible, as the upgrade is minor.

[killuchen]

You guys think I should try a different trinket instead of my H: HoR? Timing this bad boy is so crappy . I currently have AoK/Essence of the Eternal Flame with Vessel equipped as my second trinket.

[NaaBcAke]

Hey Guys! Hope you can help me out. I was a happy Ret this morning with rep trinket and AoK. Did fine with stacks and all. We killed Ragny and got VoA.. Changing it for the rep trinket will get my mastery very low. Any suggestions? (thanks!)Avalard - Ragnaros [US]

Why would you swap rep trinket for VoA, swap AoK, keep rep trinket and VoA o/

[Butosai]

Let's not forget Prentice uses 4PC T11 for that parse as well which I'd venture to say the top 10 parses all do.

Not i. Infact im just now finding out about this exploit

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

My calculations show that it might be better to cast it at 2 stacks than sit there for 40 seconds wasting CD uptime.

As for the rankings, please take no offense and you might be the best ret of the world, but 10man rankings mean zero.

While you can't compare 10man rankings against 25man rankings saying 10man rankings doesn't mean anything is ignorant, yes the "true" meters are decided in 25man since you got all the raidbuffs/debuffs there consistantly but that doesn't change much in terms of how 10m players rank vs 10m players.

For instance you can't say the top dps ranked retri in 10man majordomo is worse than the 15th rank 25man retri just based on the dps they do.

I know and i hope you also know that no matter what our dps output is in 10 or 25man there's nothing that changes but the buffs/debuffs. You can't compare the two on throughput because of that, yes i agree that the 25man rankings are the "ideal" ones to actually compare to other people and other classes but saying they're meaningless?

I'm no god among the ret paladins by any means, I'm rather unknown and do 10man in a 3raid a week guild but I have one way to play and that's full on min/maxing what i can. Does the fact that i play 10man in a "casual"-hardcore guild make me worse than the 25man players that raid under the same conditions? imo not at all.
Stop saying 10man players doesn't matter.

---------- Post added 2011-08-10 at 06:18 AM ----------

Not i. Infact im just now finding out about this exploit

Your reforging seems a bit off Butosai, specificly your gloves and shoulders.
reforge your shoulders from haste to mastery and don't reforge your gloves, gives you 11hit rating (you're 7.99% hit) and 71 mastery more at the cost of some crit.
http://wowreforge.com/US/Ner'zhul/Butosai
change reforges around you can get 3 hit rating over hit cap and go from your current mastery rating of 2164 to 2492mastery rating.

[anaxie]

Let's not forget Prentice uses 4PC T11 for that parse as well which I'd venture to say the top 10 parses all do.

#7 tonight without 4 set or Prot4T11 FML

[Kisko]

Stop saying 10man players doesn't matter.

Sigh. I never said that, go find a quote.

I said 10man RANKINGS doesn't matter. It was response to a player who used his high 10man rankings to prove that he is as good as world top Rets. He may be as good, but 10man parses can't prove that.

95% of top raiding guilds are 25man, it's a fact.
4% of the rest benching Rets, because there is much better specs around.

So, when someone ranks on 10man, he ranks among 1% of raiding Ret population, which is not a good representation.

You can go 10man one week, score a bunch of Top10 parses without even trying, next week guild is back to 25man and you are nowhere near Top200. Happens all the time.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Sorry Kisko

*gives candy*

[Faydz]

hey sorry in the midst of all this battle i actually had a trink question.



my question is, Im using HoR and LtS still ( both reg versions). Im a few k rep off from revered trink but i have no interest to farm trash and will just let it come when it comes. And last night I got AoK I was wondering if I should use it over lts or hor. Im over exp cap btw and don't have anything to reforge.

[Butosai]

Thanks huntingbear, i was probably due for a trip to wowreforge andRagerant:Last night i was at 32k 13% left on h baleroc all my cds coming back up with guardian and potion and i was ready to message kaisen that i took his spot again and then our warrior forgets to soak his crystal and i die and rage over vent and no one said a word for 10 minutesQQ/ragerant

[Rust in Peace]

What is this 'exploit" I keep hearing about? Just taking prot t11 for the GoK buff duration?

[Badpaladin]

What is this 'exploit" I keep hearing about? Just taking prot t11 for the GoK buff duration?

Yup. long ass strength buff gogo