Survival Hunter Guide (Updated for 5.4)

[Azortharion]

anyone having trouble with simc iterations atm? The results page keeps saying 1 iteration and every sim I do has big variance.

Uncheck "Generate Debug" in the Options tab.

[Illana]

Uncheck "Generate Debug" in the Options tab.

aha I didnt read the fine print. Was browsing through the logs to see details on fervor usage

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If you set the line for arcane shot to use it at 50 focus then fervor has an interval of around 35 seconds (almost off cd) and there is no focus capping at all.

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And yes over 25k iterations, fervor does sim 6k higher than toth in my gear.

[Breccia]

Hey Hunters, I had a question from another thread but I don't want to necro it. So I'll ask here:

Is there any viable reason, at all, to use Multi-Shot on a single target? Including the application of Serpent Sting?

[Deleted]

Hey Hunters, I had a question from another thread but I don't want to necro it. So I'll ask here:

Is there any viable reason, at all, to use Multi-Shot on a single target? Including the application of Serpent Sting?

Only for the application of serpent sting, you wouldn't use it for anything else. If you use thrill of the hunt, and you have charges of it available, it is a single target dps increase to apply your serpent sting to the target with multi-shot rather than with serpent sting.

[Azortharion]

aha I didnt read the fine print. Was browsing through the logs to see details on fervor usage

- - - Updated - - -

If you set the line for arcane shot to use it at 50 focus then fervor has an interval of around 35 seconds (almost off cd) and there is no focus capping at all.

- - - Updated - - -

And yes over 25k iterations, fervor does sim 6k higher than toth in my gear.

If it only sims 6k higher, that difference is easily diminished by proper ToTH play which the sim can't do for sh**.

[Breccia]

Thanks for the response, but I need more information, if possible.

Only for the application of serpent sting, you wouldn't use it for anything else. If you use thrill of the hunt, and you have charges of it available, it is a single target dps increase to apply your serpent sting to the target with multi-shot rather than with serpent sting.

How? The hunter in question does have Thrill of the Hunt, but (unless I'm reading it wrong) that just lowers the focus cost of Multi-Shot from 40 to 20 when it procs. Serpent Sting is 15 focus, and they're both instant. Multi-Shot's damage is physical, so (a) doesn't bypass armor and (b) doesn't benefit from mastery. Serpent Sting does [ 16,200 + 16% of AP ] damage. Based on logs from last night, the hunter in question was doing about 18k on a Multi-Shot hit and 25k from Improved Serpent Sting's initial damage.

So I'm still confused. How does Thrill of the Hunt, or anything else for that matter, make Multi-Shot do more damage over Improved Serpent Sting? Wouldn't he be better off using Serpent Sting, then using the Thrill of the Hunt procs to fire off 3 Arcane Shots, which do about four times the damage of Multi-Shot and cost less focus? I must be missing something here.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the response, but I need more information, if possible.



How? The hunter in question does have Thrill of the Hunt, but (unless I'm reading it wrong) that just lowers the focus cost of Multi-Shot from 40 to 20 when it procs. Serpent Sting is 15 focus, and they're both instant. Multi-Shot's damage is physical, so (a) doesn't bypass armor and (b) doesn't benefit from mastery. Serpent Sting does [ 16,200 + 16% of AP ] damage. Based on logs from last night, the hunter in question was doing about 18k on a Multi-Shot hit and 25k from Improved Serpent Sting's initial damage.

So I'm still confused. How does Thrill of the Hunt, or anything else for that matter, make Multi-Shot do more damage over Improved Serpent Sting? Wouldn't he be better off using Serpent Sting, then using the Thrill of the Hunt procs to fire off 3 Arcane Shots, which do about four times the damage of Multi-Shot and cost less focus? I must be missing something here.

Multi-shot not only applies serpent sting, but deals Improved serpent sting damage when it hits the target, just like serpent sting. So, the extra damage you receive from the multi-shot on top of this outweighs the small amount of extra focus it takes to execute the shot. Also, toth can re-proc off multi-shot/arcane shot, so you don't really want to worry about 'wasting' a charge that could potentially be used on an arcane shot, as the majority of the time it will refresh back to 3 stacks before you are out of them. You usually have around 65-80% uptime on the buff throughout the fight.

[Breccia]

Multi-shot not only applies serpent sting, but deals Improved serpent sting damage when it hits the target, just like serpent sting.

Huh. I did not know that. Thanks.

[Deleted]

Huh. I did not know that. Thanks.

Not a problem!

[Illana]

nice answer alth ;O

[Breccia]

Sorry, it's me again. Our group now has three Surv Hunters and I'm the designated researcher.

About what ratio of Lock and Load/Black Arrow should you see over a protracted fight? Of our three hunters, one of whom has the 4pc bonus, all of them got pretty damn close to 1:1, and the description of the effect/ICD suggests it should be higher than that.

[Illana]

Sorry, it's me again. Our group now has three Surv Hunters and I'm the designated researcher.

About what ratio of Lock and Load/Black Arrow should you see over a protracted fight? Of our three hunters, one of whom has the 4pc bonus, all of them got pretty damn close to 1:1, and the description of the effect/ICD suggests it should be higher than that.

RNG, sometimes you get a whole BA with no LnL proc

[Deleted]

Sorry, it's me again. Our group now has three Surv Hunters and I'm the designated researcher.

About what ratio of Lock and Load/Black Arrow should you see over a protracted fight? Of our three hunters, one of whom has the 4pc bonus, all of them got pretty damn close to 1:1, and the description of the effect/ICD suggests it should be higher than that.

That's about right

[Beace]

Only for the application of serpent sting, you wouldn't use it for anything else. If you use thrill of the hunt, and you have charges of it available, it is a single target dps increase to apply your serpent sting to the target with multi-shot rather than with serpent sting.

That's a very nice tip, never thought of it before. Nowadays with what feels like occasional endless L&L procs, it's not uncommon for SS to fall off.

[Orcindauh]

Damn alth is a god hunter with these insane OP answers. I did not even know that. Too bad I beat his WoL logged record on lfr garrosh though. <---definition of true skill.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

I would advise you to never use Multishot to apply SS to just one target.
Even if you have TotH charges up (and you seemingly have it up nearly 100%), those charges are valuable, and spending them on a Multishot on one target is bad.
essentially you are paying 25 focus to do additional tiny 20k additional damage in that GCD.
Even if you use Multi and that proccs TotH (which happens only in 30% of the cases) you still pay 5 focus for that 20k additional extra damage. that alone would be an okey tradoff, but that is not the general case, but the rarer case (as mentioned: 30% less than 1/3).
I'm quite sure if you math it out, it will be a dps loss.
But I'm not gonna spend time on that now, considering that SS is moving to Arcane in WoD where it will defenetly be worth it :-D
As an easy rule of thumb: just forget about it and use your Serpent Sting cast as long as you still have it :-)

[Illana]

I would advise you to never use Multishot to apply SS to just one target.
Even if you have TotH charges up (and you seemingly have it up nearly 100%), those charges are valuable, and spending them on a Multishot on one target is bad.
essentially you are paying 25 focus to do additional tiny 20k additional damage in that GCD.
Even if you use Multi and that proccs TotH (which happens only in 30% of the cases) you still pay 5 focus for that 20k additional extra damage. that alone would be an okey tradoff, but that is not the general case, but the rarer case (as mentioned: 30% less than 1/3).
I'm quite sure if you math it out, it will be a dps loss.
But I'm not gonna spend time on that now, considering that SS is moving to Arcane in WoD where it will defenetly be worth it :-D
As an easy rule of thumb: just forget about it and use your Serpent Sting cast as long as you still have it :-)

considering you will have something like a 80% uptime on toth, it's safe to say especially in a single target rotation it is always worth it.

[TJ]

What is the best way to maximise dps with ToTH and trinkets as Survival in your opener? I'm struggling to find a bursty way with having to cast AMoC when I could be spamming Arcanes with ToTH and trinkets up, and it seems that AMoC doesn't seem to do justice as it's so long and doesn't get the full length of the trinket proc. But I also want to get it on the target asap D:

[toasttemp]

What is the best way to maximise dps with ToTH and trinkets as Survival in your opener? I'm struggling to find a bursty way with having to cast AMoC when I could be spamming Arcanes with ToTH and trinkets up, and it seems that AMoC doesn't seem to do justice as it's so long and doesn't get the full length of the trinket proc. But I also want to get it on the target asap D:

Don't spam Arcane. Even if TotH procs, BA, Explosive, aMoC, Stampede, Serpent Sting, Glaive Toss, all take priority over Arcane.

[Illana]

What is the best way to maximise dps with ToTH and trinkets as Survival in your opener? I'm struggling to find a bursty way with having to cast AMoC when I could be spamming Arcanes with ToTH and trinkets up, and it seems that AMoC doesn't seem to do justice as it's so long and doesn't get the full length of the trinket proc. But I also want to get it on the target asap D:

should never be any need for arcane shot in first like 10 seconds