American education system - your solutions

[xenoz]

What are you saying? Because America has Harvard and other ivy leagues? Wake up, there are colleges in Europe and Israel that are better than Harvard and have a better success rate.

The advantage that Harvard, and other ivy league universities offer is connections, not necessarily the quality of their education.
That's something that cannot be said about other universities.

[Blastit]

50 years ago? I've seen tests from a few decades ago, regents i mean, and they had to do this stuff without calculators.

well you said 40 years ago at first buddy. here is a google search things did exist 50 years ago.. they were just different http://www.google.com/search?client=...w=1224&bih=684

they existed where they were used or not. SOMEONE used them. Just because i don't see people driving Buggatis doesn't mean they don't exist. they are real whether i don't see them or do.

[babyback]

I don't know. I think that Oxford and Cambridge are just as famous as say... Harvard and Yale.

It depends too whom you ask and where you ask it.

I live in Sweden whos very influensed by America and if you ask average Joe of a younger generation in the street to just name drop an international university he/she will probably say Harvard or any of the ivy league ones.

If you ask someone older the'll probably say Oxford or Cambridge.

[Electrik]

Well, in my opinion quite a bit of blame lies with teacher unions. I'm not innately against teacher unions, however they create a large inequality between student and teacher, with the unions fighting tooth and nail for teachers, but nobody fighting for the students. Also it really appears that you cannot be fired in this position, you are simply laid-off from one school and cycled to another and it just continues like that in a vicious cycle. This is made even worse by institutions such as the New york rubber room where teacher are paid full-time for learning what they should already know how to do, teach.
(Rubber Room thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassig...f_Education%29)

[ThePalidius]

This line right here is part of what I hate about the arguments that we get in these kind of discussions. Success does not mean better, it should not mean better, and it must not mean better. Schools should be set up to help kids succeed in the next level of schooling, they should be set up to encourage the growth of intelligence and evolution of a persons mind, so that they can succeed in life or help improve society as a whole one day. Too many students are trained to be literal calculators who follow formulas that deprive them of the ability to think outside the box or make intelligent decisions when put into complex situations, and its sickening. Encourage kids to try new things and allow them to focus on what they want as long as they are good at it. Stop trying to create a standardized person who can boost success rates.

the bold part of your quote is amazing!!!! this is why i suggest a classical education model with the trivium and quadrivium. the sole purpose for education is what i bolded. then the choice is the students as to how he/she puts it to use. success is in the eye of the beholder. being the most prominent financial mogul is success to someone, but so is spending your whole life painting untill you paint that one masterpiece and being broke to somebody else. the classical model promotes freedom of knowledge and creativity. our current system does not.

[Notalent]

I am a teacher. My mother is a retired teacher. My grandmother is also a retired teacher. My father has a teaching degree that has gone unused. My uncle was a teacher, then a school administrator. My aunt is also a teacher. We kind of have a tradition going and we all talk often about education. There are two glaring problems with the education system and if these two problems were addressed, the other problems would begin to fix themselves.

1). The most damning problem with public schools is American culture in general. The average American family does not place a high value in education, for various reasons. Mostly, the fault comes from more and more students coming from single-parent families where the parent must work one or more full time jobs to support their families. Hense, there is no education happening at home which is where education should BEGIN. Further, those students have such wrecked home lives that they receive no parenting and teachers must fill in the gaps there as well as teaching their subjects. I find myself doing much more of this than just 10 years ago.

2). Dwindling financial support for education coming from state and federal sources. We are being told to improve instruction but we must do so with less and less funding. Not only can we not afford supplies for our classrooms, schools are trying to get by with less and less staff, meaning class sizes are growing at an alarming rate. We're being told that our current system is outdated and that we're turning out too many students with "cookie cutter" education. THE TEACHERS AGREE! But what can we do when we have 30 students at a time and it's simply not possible to give each one the attention they need to develop curiosity and problem-solving skills? Throwing money at the problem obviously won't make it go away but at least give us a fighting chance!

No offense, I had maybe 5-10 teachers I wasn't more intelligent then while in middle-high school. Teachers in America are extremely lazy and often outright stupid and blame things on they're lack of funding far too much, yes the books are old, yes they don't have the newest toys to help students, but none of that is especially necessary. What is necessary is a good teacher who encourages the students to think and learn, and those types of teachers are far too rare. Me and some friends once stole a teachers copy of her math class book...she was unable to teach the class that day because she didn't actually know the formulas or equations herself.

I'm not trying to insult or troll you, but this excuse has gotten stale to me, very stale...Its something the teacher's unions put out every time there is a complaint about bad teachers.

[xenoz]

Well, in my opinion quite a bit of blame lies with teacher unions. I'm not innately against teacher unions, however they create a large inequality between student and teacher, with the unions fighting tooth and nail for teachers, but nobody fighting for the students. Also it really appears that you cannot be fired in this position, you are simply laid-off from one school and cycled to another and it just continues like that in a vicious cycle. This is made even worse by institutions such as the New york rubber room where teacher are paid full-time for learning what they should already know how to do, teach.
(Rubber Room thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassig..._of_Education))

Let's assume for a minute, you get what you want, and there are no more teacher's unions to protect them.
What person in their right mind would go to school, get a masters degree in education (minimum requirement in most states), over pretty much any other job that pays better, and in which they don't have to put up with rowdy teenagers, and demanding parents?

I'm amazed that ANYONE decides they want to go through that hell.

[ThePalidius]

No offense, I had maybe 5-10 teachers I wasn't more intelligent then while in middle-high school. Teachers in America are extremely lazy and often outright stupid and blame things on they're lack of funding far too much, yes the books are old, yes they don't have the newest toys to help students, but none of that is especially necessary. What is necessary is a good teacher who encourages the students to think and learn, and those types of teachers are far too rare. Me and some friends once stole a teachers copy of her math class book...she was unable to teach the class that day because she didn't actually know the formulas or equations herself.

I'm not trying to insult or troll you, but this excuse has gotten stale to me, very stale...Its something the teacher's unions put out every time there is a complaint about bad teachers.

the reason for the section i bolded, is they are a product of the same fail educational system they employ on the students. but the problem isnt the teachers as much as it is the topics and methods of study. we need the 7 liberal arts and a classical educational system.

[Destrina]

The government has no place in education whatsoever. All teachers should hold their jobs on merit alone. Classical education and classical books to learn from, text books are simply indoctrination tools (Read Rudyard Kipling's Gods of the Copybook Headers). Private Schools in America routinely curbstomp public schools, again government has no place in education. Students should be expelled for routinely failing classes (I'd have been expelled personally). Stop coddling the children and make them learn. Make people *GASP* pay for their education, a free ride in America results in laziness.

The only way this country can rise to the top again is to do away with the public education system.

[Blastit]

The government has no place in education whatsoever. All teachers should hold their jobs on merit alone. Classical education and classical books to learn from, text books are simply indoctrination tools (Read Rudyard Kipling's Gods of the Copybook Headers). Private Schools in America routinely curbstomp public schools, again government has no place in education. Students should be expelled for routinely failing classes (I'd have been expelled personally). Stop coddling the children and make them learn. Make people *GASP* pay for their education, a free ride in America results in laziness.

The only way this country can rise to the top again is to do away with the public education system.

Why am i the only one who i think experienced privatized teaching (boarding school doesnt count). I had to get 25 credits in my high school year freshman to senior and I eventually lucked out junior year to the point where i earned 3 college credits from AP government Spanish 5 honors and Physics 3 honors

[Destrina]

Let's assume for a minute, you get what you want, and there are no more teacher's unions to protect them.
What person in their right mind would go to school, get a masters degree in education (minimum requirement in most states), over pretty much any other job that pays better, and in which they don't have to put up with rowdy teenagers, and demanding parents?

Someone that actually wants to educate other people. I know, crazy right. People doing a job for the love of it, rather than the security it provides. BTW if the system wasn't public, the good teachers would get raises as they bring in more business.

[apepi]

Wait, so your family are teachers? Lol jk

Yeah, i completely agree with those points.

My family also has a big line of teachers in the family...guess it runs in the family.

[ThePalidius]

The government has no place in education whatsoever. All teachers should hold their jobs on merit alone. Classical education and classical books to learn from, text books are simply indoctrination tools (Read Rudyard Kipling's Gods of the Copybook Headers). Private Schools in America routinely curbstomp public schools, again government has no place in education. Students should be expelled for routinely failing classes (I'd have been expelled personally). Stop coddling the children and make them learn. Make people *GASP* pay for their education, a free ride in America results in laziness.

The only way this country can rise to the top again is to do away with the public education system.

i agree with you on everything except the paying for education. we can keep a state run program to fund the schools, (thats what property tax is for) eliminate federal government from education all together, and provide the classical education we never had but our children deserve. if it does not happen when my daughter hits school age i will teach her myself. boycott public school and teach your children, this will force the government hand.

[Liliyah]

2). Dwindling financial support for education coming from state and federal sources. We are being told to improve instruction but we must do so with less and less funding. Not only can we not afford supplies for our classrooms, schools are trying to get by with less and less staff, meaning class sizes are growing at an alarming rate. We're being told that our current system is outdated and that we're turning out too many students with "cookie cutter" education. THE TEACHERS AGREE! But what can we do when we have 30 students at a time and it's simply not possible to give each one the attention they need to develop curiosity and problem-solving skills? Throwing money at the problem obviously won't make it go away but at least give us a fighting chance!

This ^^^ x a million

I was fortunate enough to be in the right year to join my county's pilot run of the International Baccalaureate Programme. Since it was just getting on its feet, not too many applied and, in the end, we were a group of 36 students. Our classes ran with 10-20 students, which was way below the county average. I really feel like we had a huge advantage and so many amazing opportunities that other kids in our school didn't have, and it's not just because we were the high achieving kids. The small classes and rather experimental curriculum(which gave our teachers more freedom than any normal curriculum) let us do all sorts of fun shit that we'd normally never get away with.

My French class made a film. We spent nearly every period just sitting around talking about our days in French. We went to a local elementary school to give the kids a French lesson during some global awareness week.
My biology class did a cancer-awareness campaign in our school and presented our work at the annual meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research. We also went out to the marsh/creek that runs near our school and did an ecological survey, worked to repair some of the damage to the area and put in some measures to slow down erosion.
Our English class had not only written exams, but oral exams.
IB brought to our county its first-ever philosophy course. :O Having an excuse to get into debates with your classmates was soooooo cool.

And it goes on and on and on. Our teachers didn't do that kind of stuff with their other classes. Too many students to make arrangements for/control, or not enough time in the curriculum.

[Destrina]

Why am i the only one who i think experienced privatized teaching (boarding school doesnt count). I had to get 25 credits in my high school year freshman to senior and I eventually lucked out junior year to the point where i earned 3 college credits from AP government Spanish 5 honors and Physics 3 honors

I went to public school and failed horribly. I never did my homework, which was my decision. I wasn't learning anything from the teachers, as most of them were not even close to as smart as me, so instead I played video games, or read novels, or whatever. I had the second worst gpa in my class. Until my senior year, when I was enrolled in "Alt School", which was the school for kids who were way behind. Most of them were the slow learners and potheads, etc. I got straight A's and finished over half of all my credits for High School in that one year, because I was allowed to work at my own pace, rather than hamstrung and kept at the speed of the stupidest children in my class.

Public school is a load of shite.

[Powderburn]

They need to redirect all of the federal funding that goes to desk jockeys and grants to actual teachers and classroom supplies.

[Blastit]

I went to public school and failed horribly. I never did my homework, which was my decision. I wasn't learning anything from the teachers, as most of them were not even close to as smart as me, so instead I played video games, or read novels, or whatever. I had the second worst gpa in my class. Until my senior year, when I was enrolled in "Alt School", which was the school for kids who were way behind. Most of them were the slow learners and potheads, etc. I got straight A's and finished over half of all my credits for High School in that one year, because I was allowed to work at my own pace, rather than hamstrung and kept at the speed of the stupidest children in my class.

Public school is a load of shite.

This is whatever is doing now! I live in New orleans born and raised there wasn't a playground to spend most of my day 5 of my friends got shot while i was growing up 1 is still alive. There was no where safe i was just lucky to go to a private school and not be another statistic.

[Destrina]

i agree with you on everything except the paying for education. we can keep a state run program to fund the schools, (thats what property tax is for) eliminate federal government from education all together, and provide the classical education we never had but our children deserve. if it does not happen when my daughter hits school age i will teach her myself. boycott public school and teach your children, this will force the government hand.

If the government pays for it, they will demand control of it, and rightfully so. You pay the bill, you make the decision.

[Wtfambient]

This is an easy topic for me to bash, considering I've gone to public school all of my life. (I'm in HS atm)

The reason why I think that Public education is so messed up is because they're teaching us a bunch of worthless stuff that we don't care about. Kids realize once they get to about 7th grade that school is really boring other than the socializing aspect and that none of the information is relevant to what you want to do in your future except for maybe a class or two.

The only class that I actually give a damn about is Biology, I want to be a veterinarian. I love my dogs, and that's what I want to do. Plain and simple, I honestly can't think of anything else that I would want to do other than maybe computer tech stuff, that's really the only other thing I know well enough that I think I could do it as a career.

Now, after reading that, tell me how learning useless stuff in classes like History, foreign languages, and Algebra is going to help me in life.

Public education is a big waste of time as kids get into their later years in school. They should have a good idea of what they want to do, and throwing random shit that we don't care about at us to memorize doesn't help our attitudes towards striving to be the best in school.

[Blastit]

This is an easy topic for me to bash, considering I've gone to public school all of my life. (I'm in HS atm)

The reason why I think that Public education is so messed up is because they're teaching us a bunch of worthless stuff that we don't care about. Kids realize once they get to about 7th grade that school is really boring other than the socializing aspect and that none of the information is relevant to what you want to do in your future except for maybe a class or two.

The only class that I actually give a damn about is Biology, I want to be a veterinarian. I love my dogs, and that's what I want to do. Plain and simple, I honestly can't think of anything else that I would want to do other than maybe computer tech stuff, that's really the only other thing I know well enough that I think I could do it as a career.

Now, after reading that, tell me how learning useless stuff in classes like History, foreign languages, and Algebra is going to help me in life.

Public education is a big waste of time as kids get into their later years in school. They should have a good idea of what they want to do, and throwing random shit that we don't care about at us to memorize doesn't help our attitudes towards striving to be the best in school.

they teach you everything you might need to know sometime. NO ONE BUT PHYSICISTS will EVER USE PHYSICS. I'm still not sure why they teach it.. they need to specialize high schools like wow specs,they have some math and science only schools