[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Kelimbror]

You know, this is the one thing that I don't think is a good idea. If you master a boss, it's time to move on and learn the next boss. I think the "different modes" will end up forcing Carbine to make the bosses much easier, because you only have one week to learn the boss before it changes on you.

It might be fun for the very top end which blitzes through all the bosses very fast. But I think it will cause real problems for slower guild that wipe on bosses for a couple weeks before beating them.

Except the boss mechanics aren't going to just dramatically change from week to week. What we know for sure will change is a room's layout. To use their example, there's a boss where you are in a normal room one week so it's standard difficulty. The next week there is a pit of lava in the middle that the boss can be constantly knocked in to give a debuff so he takes more damage making the fight easier.

It's not going to be any different than providing different levels of challenge. Presumably the highest level of raiders will be able to accomplish what they always do, being the best, every week....whereas the lesser skilled/lesser lucked raid teams will not have to wait to farm dungeon points, craft new gear, jump through arbitrary hoops until they can outgear their mistakes.

Instead they might find success in the lava debuff week b/c their mistakes are made up for by the higher RDSP they can put out. So now they get some real progress in a raid setting instead of only having the option to improve outside of a raid. Maybe the handful of drops they get combined with the practice helps them beat it the next week on it's normal setting.

Instead of a static here's the raid, suffer for x months until we nerf it / Here's the raid, beat it in one week then farm until your eyes bleed...it's, here's continual competition that never ends, continual chances at possibly progressing without needing nerfs, etc.

[zito]

Nice, way to focus on ONE paragraph in my text, instead of the whole.

I am not BLAMING LFR for anything, i am simply stating that LFR is one of the reasons I Feel as I feel. Try to comprehend what you read, instead of nit picking lines that you clearly despise.

WoW changed for me the day LFR was implented, not because its a super bad idea, but because it took out some of the prestige in raiding. I dont like the "EVERYONE SHOULD SEE CONTENT LOLS" model, heck - if i am TO BAD/dont have time to invest in a specific thing, i dont expect to get it.

You blame LFR for taking prestige out of raiding but it had 0 effect on how prestige raiding works. You picked a implementation and you blamed it for lack of "showing off" in the game.

[Vespian]

That whoosh noise was a point going over your head. I don't need to sepdn 10 minutes thinking up elaborate metaphors as that wasn't the point. Also, I would imagine you don't understand the nature of tongue-in-cheek responses or sarcasm...next time instead of a whimsical smiley with the tongue out, I'll just type in bold letters TONGUE IN CHEEK METAPHOR ALERT for you.

Additionally, my response was to the person that brought up the comparison and wasn't directed at you in the slightest. It's alarming that you felt the need to be defensive about it.

I noticed a mod warned us about back and forths, but I'm going to risk my head anyways,since that's who I am. Bad metaphores don't make whoosh sounds. They make sounds that sound a lot like planes crashing. The reason I commented (/sigh here we go again) is exactly because your defensive stance is based on subjectivity and is, as people tend to say, rose colored. I don't care if you address me or anyone else and I don't care what your opinion is, technically speaking. But when someone supports that statement with nonsense, I see that as a problem.

Do not get me wrong, Every single MMO I remotely like, I want it to be the next thing. The features explained in most video's that other MMO's do not have, always sound astonishing, vibrant and fresh. But then I go in the game and I find myself strangely confronted with the difference between 'on paper' (or in a promotional video, if you prefer) and in actuality.

So to keep it short, I didn't respond to you like this, because I disagree with you perse, since indeed every MMO in existence borrowed from at least a few others, but because the reason why you disagree with the statement "WoW clone" is based on comparisons that have absolutely no correlation. Is it in fact legit, to call this a wow clone in its basic structure? Yes. Would it be correct to name a few other MMO's as blueprints? YES. Does Wildstar attempt to break the mold? Also Yes.

And, you are the one that decided to throw in a "I'm not on your level kid" reference with the whole "whoosh" thing, which is just..well..childish. Rabid fanboiism won't get you the game you like, but it will most likely get youa chunk of disappointment once the game finally releases. Me? I'm just going to play and decide then.

[Frigiddeath]

No, it's a choice that will be available always, since community has nothing to do with the existence of an LFD.

What I meant by that is that they are contemplating locking the cross server part in the beginning few months. The system is made to be cross server but letting people get use to the players on their server might be a good compromise instead of starting cross server out of the gate. Having the option between same server que and cross server que would probably be a false choice to be honest. You will always pick cross server because if you are queing for a dungeon you are looking to get in and out. Same server will almost always take longer unless you are on a super high pop server. People will always take the easiest path when trying to accomplish something.

In fact, I've actually had less destructive experiences since WoW has implemented LFR than I've ever had. People are there for a purpose and tend to accomplish that in the best way possible. Serious offenders can be removed by group consensus and you can carry on with your business. Nothing more is needed, because both the things that happen and their suggest solutions are embellishments.

This really depends on what you are trying to get out of the game. If you are looking for just getting the content done in the easily way possible then LFR is a fine way of doing it. You just que up, get through the raid, and you are done. From a logistics point, LFR allows people to easily to see and beat the content. However, for me beating the content is only part of the fun. I enjoy the goofing off with a known team of players. In fact, playing MMOs, in general, bore the shit out of me otherwise. If I am not playing with a group of friends that are all on the same page on what we are trying to do I get bored. For me, LFR is nothing but a chore. It is just queing up and watching people screw up mechanics I feel are a joke. Sure, we still down everything but it is a lot more stressful for me than just playing with my friends or guild. Different styles for different people.

Unless they are directly violating the TOS/EULA they are just as entitled to be a dbag as you are to be a Mother Teresa. Sad reality, but it's true.

Pretty much. Long before LFD ever existed their dbags in MMOs. What do people think the point of the old vanilla STV days were? People would not there to test their PvP might; it was to piss off every lowbie they could. Some people have fun messing with everyone they can in an environment where their are no real repercussion for doing so. No game will ever stop it and everyone playing find ways to minimize it.

[Valeron]

This is what most concerns me. WOW's visceral combat model is what keeps me coming back. .

Does not compute. To each their own but I find wow's combat and combat like it to be the worst in the genre. Therefore I'm glad Wildstar's combat will be hardly anything like it.

[Kiry]

I saw this game displayed at Pax 2 years ago, been on the lookout since. Really started delving into it this week, and am interested in seeing where it goes. I'm very interested in their design ideas, the race/class/path. I hope their game play is closer to Neverwinter/Tera then WoW. The dynamic gameplay makes things interesting. WoW is "ok" but it's old style now. I'm very curious how healing will be handled.

I hope that their balancing system is not a blending of pve & pvp, that they have two separate systems for this. I'm glad to see the open architecture for moding. I honestly believe that people want to build things, creates a passion for the game they are playing.

I can tell already the hype is building. lol Part of me is glad because it builds a fan base....let's see if the game can not only be fun, but meet some of those expectations.

[SirRobin]

Man, even folks in the British government are getting into the Beta.

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/sto...s-just-a-game/

[CrossNgen]

Might be late on this discussion, but I'm all in for LFD as long as it's exclusive to your realm/server/whathaveyou, and you don't get telleported into the dungeon, the former ruins the sense of community, while the latter ruins the world.

[Frigiddeath]

Man, even folks in the British government are getting into the Beta.

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/sto...s-just-a-game/

I am so salty right now just watching that. Really cool though and it is nice to see at least one government trying to understand how video games are a serious part of the global economy and are not just "murder and rape" simulators.

[Kelimbror]

the former ruins the sense of community.

/facepalm

No, it doesn't. We need to create a Snopes page for MMO urban legends. There are already so many things that can go on there. Dungeon finders and community, F2P games are terrible and all P2W, the list could go on.

[CrossNgen]

/facepalm

No, it doesn't. We need to create a Snopes page for MMO urban legends. There are already so many things that can go on there. Dungeon finders and community, F2P games are terrible and all P2W, the list could go on.

Of course it ruins the community, first, you don't need to talk to anyone, not a single person, to get things done. and then you have the problem with meeting with dicks, now, you might think that his might as well be a problem without LFD, but there's a huge difference, he's never gonna meet you ever again, he wont care if he ruins your life because once you're done in the instance, your connections end there.

I remember, back in WotLK, I had a few instances where a fully geared player needed on heroic blues, what did we do? we ruined his reputation, we contacted his guild leader, got him kicked out, and there was a time where the other three players helped me do the same. Happened again during ICC, the leader master looted all of the epics from the fourth boss and ran away, the entire raid ruined him, on a daily basis, we kept a check on him, to see what he was doing, to clean filth from the game.

A sense of community.

[Deleted]

Of course it ruins the community, first, you don't need to talk to anyone, not a single person, to get things done. and then you have the problem with meeting with dicks, now, you might think that his might as well be a problem without LFD, but there's a huge difference, he's never gonna meet you ever again, he wont care if he ruins your life because once you're done in the instance, your connections end there.

I remember, back in WotLK, I had a few instances where a fully geared player needed on heroic blues, what did we do? we ruined his reputation, we contacted his guild leader, got him kicked out, and there was a time where the other three players helped me do the same. Happened again during ICC, the leader master looted all of the epics from the fourth boss and ran away, the entire raid ruined him, on a daily basis, we kept a check on him, to see what he was doing, to clean filth from the game.

A sense of community.

You can do the same thing now, it just requires a little more effort.

[RohanV]

Instead they might find success in the lava debuff week b/c their mistakes are made up for by the higher RDSP they can put out. So now they get some real progress in a raid setting instead of only having the option to improve outside of a raid. Maybe the handful of drops they get combined with the practice helps them beat it the next week on it's normal setting.

Instead of a static here's the raid, suffer for x months until we nerf it / Here's the raid, beat it in one week then farm until your eyes bleed...it's, here's continual competition that never ends, continual chances at possibly progressing without needing nerfs, etc.

I don't see this at all. What I see is more like:

Week 1: Beat Boss A after several attempts. Start working on Boss B
Week 2: After some discussion on the forums, group is excited to continue attempts on Boss B. Only Boss A has changed. Group wipes on Boss A all week, never getting to Boss B.

I don't see how that is better than the current system. To me, raiding is about mastery. You learn a fight, master it, and then move on to the next fight. There's a sense of progression, that your group is getting better and better as you move through the instance.

I think having bosses randomly change every week is going to cut against that sense of mastery, and will just result in easier bosses so that you don't have to waste hours relearning a fight.

[RoninaThorstone]

Of course it ruins the community, first, you don't need to talk to anyone, not a single person, to get things done. and then you have the problem with meeting with dicks, now, you might think that his might as well be a problem without LFD, but there's a huge difference, he's never gonna meet you ever again, he wont care if he ruins your life because once you're done in the instance, your connections end there.

I remember, back in WotLK, I had a few instances where a fully geared player needed on heroic blues, what did we do? we ruined his reputation, we contacted his guild leader, got him kicked out, and there was a time where the other three players helped me do the same. Happened again during ICC, the leader master looted all of the epics from the fourth boss and ran away, the entire raid ruined him, on a daily basis, we kept a check on him, to see what he was doing, to clean filth from the game.

A sense of community.

You can still do that. Wildstar will probably be using mega servers (think that's been confirmed?)

Also, spamming trade chat with "LF3M UBRS. Need mage and druid" isn't "building community". Doing group activities with people who you can continue to play with builds community. The reason why WoWs LFG system was mediocre was that when you had a good run with someone on a different server, you couldn't ginvite them or be like "hey, can I add you and run some more heroics with you tomorrow?".
I met a friend through LFG, and we've stayed friends for about 3 and half years now, because he was on my server so I was able to group with him again.

This idea that spamming /1 or /2 "builds community" is silly. It's the "doing content with people" that builds community. If the people you are playing with are segregated by shitty servers, then yeah LFG isn't going to be helpful. The only way LFG could be bad is that you are doing community building activities with people who aren't a part of your community, thus wasting potential networking time. Games with only 1 or two servers don't have that issue.

[CrossNgen]

You can still do that. Wildstar will probably be using mega servers (think that's been confirmed?)

Also, spamming trade chat with "LF3M UBRS. Need mage and druid" isn't "building community". Doing group activities with people who you can continue to play with builds community. The reason why WoWs LFG system was mediocre was that when you had a good run with someone on a different server, you couldn't ginvite them or be like "hey, can I add you and run some more heroics with you tomorrow?".
I met a friend through LFG, and we've stayed friends for about 3 and half years now, because he was on my server so I was able to group with him again.

This idea that spamming /1 or /2 "builds community" is silly. It's the "doing content with people" that builds community. If the people you are playing with are segregated by shitty servers, then yeah LFG isn't going to be helpful. The only way LFG could be bad is that you are doing community building activities with people who aren't a part of your community, thus wasting potential networking time. Games with only 1 or two servers don't have that issue.

You misunderstand me, I'm all for an LFD system, as long as you're teamed up with players within your server and you wont get a telleport into the dungeon

[Kelimbror]

now, you might think that his might as well be a problem without LFD, but there's a huge difference, he's never gonna meet you ever again, he wont care if he ruins your life because once you're done in the instance, your connections end there.

The same thing happens regardless of LFD because of anonymity on the internet. Look at this forum for a prime example. We are all free to hate whoever we please as a short ban later we are back to doing the same thing. We don't have to look these people in the eye, or hear their voice, but I think as dysfunctional as these boards are it's a fine community for the most part.

Additionally, hearing that someone is 'ruins your life' in a dungeon is probably the most over dramatic thing I've ever heard. I can't take an opinion like this seriously.

I remember, back in WotLK, I had a few instances where a fully geared player needed on heroic blues, what did we do? we ruined his reputation, we contacted his guild leader, got him kicked out, and there was a time where the other three players helped me do the same. Happened again during ICC, the leader master looted all of the epics from the fourth boss and ran away, the entire raid ruined him, on a daily basis, we kept a check on him, to see what he was doing, to clean filth from the game.

Once more, proving my point to be entirely true. People who want same server or no group finders merely want to feel like Righteous Crusaders of Vindictive Power, able to mete out punishment to those pathetic mortals they cross on their quest to greatness...because their way of having fun and enjoying a game are the only acceptable ways.

I've got news for you: this has nothing to do with building a community.

Additionally, I find it pretty meh that you needed to go to the lengths you did because someone rolled on gear in a dungeon. If that's not immature, vindictive behavior then I don't know what is. Your actions didn't help build a community at all, it sought to punish someone for behaving in a way you didn't approve.

[Monarken]

You blame LFR for taking prestige out of raiding but it had 0 effect on how prestige raiding works. You picked a implementation and you blamed it for lack of "showing off" in the game.

And AGAIN you FAIL to understand the underlying message that i want to get forth.
First off i suggest you actually read the very sentence you were quoting: "But because it took out SOME of the prestige in raiding" - Keyword being SOME, not ALL. I do not think LFR alone is the big issue in my way of thinking of WoW at the moment, but it is a part of it.
And yet again you fail to understand, you say it had 0 effect on how prestige raiding works, in my mind it was a tool to further devalue raiding in the world of warcraft. Let me emphasize, this is MY opinion, i am stating why I have a lackluster feel around WoW raiding.

You can say LFR was the tipping point for me, tipping point, not "AMG ONE THING RUINS ALL".

Now, you may enjoy logging once a week to raid ur LFR and cap ur 1300 2s team, and thats all jolly good. But no my cup of tea.

[RoninaThorstone]

You misunderstand me, I'm all for an LFD system, as long as you're teamed up with players within your server and you wont get a telleport into the dungeon

You can toggle cross realm LFG on and off. (That's not speculation, that's confirmed) So you can choose to be teamed with your server and only your server.

Now, the # of servers could be as low as 2-3. We've seen with games like Eve, NWO, Firefall, and vindictus that you can have very few, very large servers with sharding systems.

[Sakorath67]

Don't understand the graphics complaints. They are actually very detailed, just cartoon like. Which is fine, people don't want to have graphic intensive mmos because they take such a hit on one's system, and not many people want to spend the money to upgrade to run a graphic intensive mmo. This also allows for a greater number of players playing their game. MMOs do well with lots of players.

[CrossNgen]

Additionally, hearing that someone is 'ruins your life' in a dungeon is probably the most over dramatic thing I've ever heard. I can't take an opinion like this seriously.

First, I've never said "Ruins your life" or anything like that, I said ruin a reputation, and why shouldn't we? people like that shouldn't be a part of the community, because all they do is corrupt it.

Once more, proving my point to be entirely true. People who want same server or no group finders merely want to feel like Righteous Crusaders of Vindictive Power, able to mete out punishment to those pathetic mortals they cross on their quest to greatness...because their way of having fun and enjoying a game are the only acceptable ways.

I've got news for you: this has nothing to do with building a community.

Ofcourse it does, a group of people working on a common goal for no compensation, that's a great way for building a community.

Additionally, I find it pretty meh that you needed to go to the lengths you did because someone rolled on gear in a dungeon. If that's not immature, vindictive behavior then I don't know what is. Your actions didn't help build a community at all, it sought to punish someone for behaving in a way you didn't approve.

So you basically support ninja looters and the likes, who just want to get what THEY want without thinking about the people they hurt, these are the people who don't belong in an MMO, and if a group of people out there are willing to go into far lengths without getting any rewards out of it, these are the people who wish to build a better community.