Combat rogue - Fan of knives question

[Lithios]

So I am a combat rogue on Shadowmoon. I play all the time and im fairly familiar with the class mechanics. Still, one thing I have heard mixed responses on is when to FoK as combat. Some people are telling me that NEVER FoK as combat but someone said if there are 10+ mobs then FoK away. Others have been tellin me to only FoK if the mobs will die before you can have the time to get off regular attacks. As of right now I have been FoKing when there is 10+ (So rag after the seeds and we stack, fire boss in ZA etc.) but for the most part sometimes I dont know if it is more DPS to BF+FoK, just BF, or just FoK. If anyone has any clarification on this it would be appreciated. I do check EJ regularly but this is possibly something that could have slipped through my fingers. Thanks in advance!

TL;DR:
I want to know when to Blade Flurry + FoK (if at all), JUST Blade Flurry, or JUST FoK.

[Deleted]

1st, do NEVER use BF + Foking at the same time, the damage isnt cleavable.

2nd, Dont bother use FoK on Ragnaros adds, turn on blade flurry and just cleave alittle until they are dead.

3rd, I'm gonna be honest here from my point of view, I would ONLY use FoK with crippling poison on if I have to slow adds on for ex. Beth heroic or something. The damage from FoK is so crap that its not even worth it. And you dont stack enough DP to have 5x stacks up and using WP on throw isnt good damage at all either. When I do dungeons I dont use fok either, its just so shit compared to Assassinations fok spamming and having 5x DP on all targets.

[Sesshou]

I don't think the actual break point is known (though I would be incredibly happy to have some one show me up on this). However, the idea that you should never FoK is dumb. Your example is a perfect reason why, theres no way your single target plus bf damage (with the energy penalty) is more than your FoK hitting all of those things at once. Now this is just my logic, but I don't usually BF when I FoK because it seems to me that the reason you are FoK'ing is because you know it will do more than your BF damage and having BF up gimps your FoK damage (especially if you for some reason had SnD drop). Now you are still white swinging so there is actually probably some overlap where using both is good, but no one actually has the numbers for it afaik.

As for my guess on numbers, I wouldn't FoK unless theres 7+, maybe 8+, and you need to be sure they are actually all in range since as combat you probably don't have an extra glyph slot for the fok glyph.

[RogueDurr]

Pretty much what flander said is pretty spot on. You are not gonna Fok with BF on cause your just gonna energy starve yourself and there is some limiting issues with FoK. Compared to actually damage from Fok itself compared to asssassnation, combat actually does more. While this sounds nice its not as nice as it seems. Because of the AOE damage cap, FOK is pretty limited on how damage and how many adds it can effect. Where assassination gets around these 2 disadvantages by avoiding the AOE cap with poison damage and after a stack or 2 of DP is applied, assassination will do much more damage.

In most cases, BF is gonna turn out better. You can at the very least get some combo points to put SnD and do some decent damage.

[Chloride]

I use FoK very rarely anymore. Sometimes if our hunter needs a hand with the spiders on beth Ill run over and fok a bit since Im usually sitting on a drone or waiting on another one to spawn. On Rag I fok when the seed adds cluster, but only very lightly, 3 maybe 4 FoKs and they are all pretty low since my group has incredible aoe.

[Neazy]

FoK is worth it as combat. Best example I can think of is Occu'thar. Use the major glyph, wound poison on the thrown and you will do more damage than if you used that energy on sinister strike. Fan of knives glyph helps too.

You don't get opportunities to use it in Firelands. But that's just because of how the fights are. If there was a mass aoe phase it would be worth it.

As for my guess on numbers, I wouldn't FoK unless theres 7+, maybe 8+, and you need to be sure they are actually all in range since as combat you probably don't have an extra glyph slot for the fok glyph.

you can make room for it. on occu'thar you won't be using blade flurry, so you can replace that glyph with the fok glyph.

[Deleted]

FoK is worth it as combat. Best example I can think of is Occu'thar. Use the major glyph, wound poison on the thrown and you will do more damage than if you used that energy on sinister strike. Fan of knives glyph helps too.

You don't get opportunities to use it in Firelands. But that's just because of how the fights are. If there was a mass aoe phase it would be worth it. you can make room for it. on occu'thar you won't be using blade flurry, so you can replace that glyph with the fok glyph.

I can agree alittle your view, but if you go with a "proper" group lets say that 9 of 10 of the people with proper aoe do aoe the adds, then its not worth it to spend energy on FoK since the boss wont die faster, your single target > your 3-4 foks you'll get out on Occu'thar. But if you're doing Occu'thar with a group with people doesnt even know how to use their Aoe abilities, then sure FoK will help alittle, but we should still be the _last_ person to aoe, atleast if you're Combat. I do never aoe at all on Occu'thar, nor cleaving and I'm always # 1 or 2. (Yes I do 25 man with proper groups)

[Lithios]

Thanks again for all teh responses. i will take heed.

[mtawney1313]

FoK is INCREDIBLY weak as a combat rogue. TBH I don't think it's even feasible to match the damage of blade flurry unless there are dozens of adds that die extremely quickly. Remember after a certain number of mobs the actual AOE damage gets normalized, and since WP is rather weak in and of itself, you're never really going to pull large numbers with FoK as combat.

Assassination on the other hand does significant AOE damage via vile poisons. If you are in a fight where AOE is absolutely crucial then spec assassination and stack mastery. Otherwise there is pretty much NEVER any reason to Aoe.