L.A Noire programming

[Deleted]

Hey guys, i was googling LA noire programming, as im interested in how it was made, i'd like to know what it is programmed in and maybe if you guys have any links to this information, or videos on the programming side. Any help would be appreciated. my google searches clearly suck.
Thanks in advance.
Vedra.

[Kuntantee]

Most of modern games are programmed in C++ Programming Language and I believe L.A Noire is not an exception. L.A Noire is a HUGE game. You can not develop such game by your own. You need a team and a studio because it requires extensive knowledge about Differential Equations, 3D modelling, C++, algorithms, windows/linux/mac programming, DirectX/openGL/other-for-various-consoles programming. Game programming is the hardest of all programming fields.

[Howard Moon]

Game programming is the hardest of all programming fields.

Sorry for the off-topic but... what? Don't think I need to explain how absurd that statement is ^^

[Kuntantee]

Sorry for the off-topic but... what? Don't think I need to explain how absurd that statement is ^^

please, go head explain.

and by the way

"Video games are extremely complex pieces of software. In fact, they
are without a doubt the hardest programs to write."
André LaMothe

do you think this guy is kidding?

[Howard Moon]

Sorry if I seem a little aggressive, but as a software developer I was very irritated by that statement.

I work in audio coding software and I can tell you that things like the AAC or MP3 are hugely complex, and full with very heavy math. Still, I am sure our software is child's play compared to, I don't know, the software used at a particle accelerator. The software used to decode the human genome. Weather forecasting software. The software used by airports to control air traffic. I could list more but you get the idea.

Also, which part of game programming is the "hardest"? The graphics engine? The AI? The interface design? Porting the games to consoles? Because different people work on each part. Do they all have the "hardest" job?

LaMothe sells books on game programming, so I don't know how objective his opinion is on the matter.

[Fraza]

I work in audio coding software and I can tell you that things like the AAC or MP3 are hugely complex, and full with very heavy math. Still, I am sure our software is child's play compared to, I don't know, the software used at a particle accelerator. The software used to decode the human genome. Weather forecasting software. The software used by airports to control air traffic. I could list more but you get the idea.

The software used at the particle accelerator and air traffic control is definitely more mission critical, but complex? I sure hope not. If my life depends on a piece of code I prefer it to be as simple as possible because more complexity = more room for error.

[skauert]

I don't think one can rightfully compare programming scenarios with a single common denominator (such as how 'hard' it is). I'm personally a games programmer (specialized in graphics), and I'd feel much, much more comfortable doing this than dealing with airplane controls, traffic lights, etc. No one really cares if you make a slight mistake in games programming, as opposed to real-time systems where it may cause deaths. Real-time systems require tons more testing, and much more time spent in the software engineering phase. On the flipside, games programming can quickly get much more complicated, with a much larger code-base, which in the end becomes much harder to maintain (unless your team has good software engineers, of course).

[Competition]

Sitting on MMO-Champion is the last place you want to go to learn anything at all about game development, programming, or art. No one here is going to inform you of anything relevant, and they'll just argue over things they don't have any experience in. Go take a class at your local city college or buy a book on a programming language you wish to learn.

Picking up a game controller and playing games =/= going to school and earning a degree in one of its many many disciplines. Don't feed the trolls.

[Arcilux]

Sorry if I seem a little aggressive, but as a software developer I was very irritated by that statement.

I work in audio coding software and I can tell you that things like the AAC or MP3 are hugely complex, and full with very heavy math. Still, I am sure our software is child's play compared to, I don't know, the software used at a particle accelerator. The software used to decode the human genome. Weather forecasting software. The software used by airports to control air traffic. I could list more but you get the idea.

Also, which part of game programming is the "hardest"? The graphics engine? The AI? The interface design? Porting the games to consoles? Because different people work on each part. Do they all have the "hardest" job?

LaMothe sells books on game programming, so I don't know how objective his opinion is on the matter.

I am an application developer for Health Care IT, my fiance is a weather forecaster who works with his company's programmers, and one of my good friend's from college has a dad who works as a programmer for Fermilab, the USA version of the LHC. My sister has her pilot's license and has worked with the ATC people, though granted not dealing with actual programming. Unfortunately I do not know anybody who works on decoding the human genome.

It is difficult to quantify what makes something 'difficult'. The Fermilab particle accelerator programming, for example, is relatively simple programming, but requires very difficult physics and math to be done before the programming. Meteorology is much the same, I actually made a few Python and Fortran programs in college for our Meteorology department. Once somebody understands the math behind it, the programming is relatively simple.

Sure, if you break games down into a million parts, it is easy to say all the parts are simple to do. However, what gets really difficult, is putting all the parts together and having them work seamlessly. Kuntantee was also arguing as to programming by yourself. If you don't have animators and graphic programmers and audio programmers and database programmers and dozens of others, it will snowball out of control. Then taking all of those pieces and combining them? Hell, just getting the UI to work nicely with the database can be a pain for simple health care applications. More features adds to complexity exponentially.

I don't think one can rightfully compare programming scenarios with a single common denominator (such as how 'hard' it is). I'm personally a games programmer (specialized in graphics), and I'd feel much, much more comfortable doing this than dealing with airplane controls, traffic lights, etc. No one really cares if you make a slight mistake in games programming, as opposed to real-time systems where it may cause deaths. Real-time systems require tons more testing, and much more time spent in the software engineering phase. On the flipside, games programming can quickly get much more complicated, with a much larger code-base, which in the end becomes much harder to maintain (unless your team has good software engineers, of course).

This is right on. What is difficult to get right, and what is horrendous if gotten wrong, are not always the same thing. There are many ways to measure programming difficulty.

[Kuntantee]

Sorry if I seem a little aggressive, but as a software developer I was very irritated by that statement.
I work in audio coding software and I can tell you that things like the AAC or MP3 are hugely complex, and full with very heavy math. Still, I am sure our software is child's play compared to, I don't know, the software used at a particle accelerator. The software used to decode the human genome. Weather forecasting software. The software used by airports to control air traffic. I could list more but you get the idea.

Also, which part of game programming is the "hardest"? The graphics engine? The AI? The interface design? Porting the games to consoles? Because different people work on each part. Do they all have the "hardest" job?

LaMothe sells books on game programming, so I don't know how objective his opinion is on the matter.

The software that decodes human genome is NOT hard in terms of algorithmic complexity or any thing that is related with computer science. It's hard because human genome is complex once you're advanced enough to resolve the pattern of human genome the program that decodes it, it is pretty simple to develop and those who find the algorithm for that program( I don't know if it exists) is not developed by a computer scientist or software engineer that's for sure and about particle accelerator software, I'm sure it's a very complex system but my educated guess would be a embedded system at its best and as I told you the hardest part is resolving the physics formulas in that project not developing the software for it. The software that control air traffic uses collision algorithms and almost all games use these kind of algorithms as well.

You seem like didn't get my point, instead, took my post personal. Game programming is considered as hardest field because it requires integration of various programming fields. If you're honest with your question(I'm not sure if you're trolling) I would say AI is the hardest part, hardest of the hardest, duplicating human brain.

LaMothe sells books on game programming, so I don't know how objective his opinion is on the matter.

I hope you're not serious man.

[Howard Moon]

Game programming is considered as hardest field because it requires integration of various programming fields.

As does any other large software project.

You mention AI software being most complex because it attempts to duplicate the human brain. Audio codecs like the Mp3 have a complex psychoacoustic engine which attempts to duplicate the human auditory system. The weather forecasting software has algorithms which attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of a friggin' planet. You can claim that the software is simple once you figure out the math, but the same can be said about AI, graphics engines, and everything, really.

I hope you're not serious man.

Is it so hard to believe that an expert in a field will tell you that his field is the most complex one? Not trying to diss LaMothe or anything, but what you quoted is just a man's subjective opinion. You agree with it, I don't

[seam]

Keep it on topic guys. Please.

[LoLHellcy]

Keep it on topic guys. Please.

What? not a fan of us Code Monkeys fighting? (first year Game Design major here)

OT: usually its hard to find the source code for games (legally).

It was most likely made with C++, and the stunning facial detail was captured by an absurd number of close ups from high definition cameras.

[conqq]

@OP: Simply enough, it's not going to happen without a college degree and extensive work in the field already. It took a team of >20 people to create it probably and something you probably couldn't achieve in a lifetime.

[Racia]

They used a brand new face capturing technic, where they film with A LOT of cameras close up on the face to give a detailed animated face, whereas before the faces was animated by the creators.

Lots of videos on their own homepage

http://www.rockstargames.com/lanoire/#!/video:6341 here is one, enjoy.

And for the rest, it isnt any different programming then other games, its only the new camera tech, thats different from many other games.

[Kuntantee]

As does any other large software project.

You mention AI software being most complex because it attempts to duplicate the human brain. Audio codecs like the Mp3 have a complex psychoacoustic engine which attempts to duplicate the human auditory system. The weather forecasting software has algorithms which attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of a friggin' planet. You can claim that the software is simple once you figure out the math, but the same can be said about AI, graphics engines, and everything, really.




Is it so hard to believe that an expert in a field will tell you that his field is the most complex one? Not trying to diss LaMothe or anything, but what you quoted is just a man's subjective opinion. You agree with it, I don't

Do you think human auditory system is more complex than human brain? Every big project is integrating various fields like games? And you, simply, refuse to believe an expert without reason? I'm not going to keep this discussion any further since it's not the place and you seem like programmed not to believe what others and experts say even they speak reasonable.

[Deleted]

Apart from some of you completely derailing the thread, i'd like to thank those that helped my research. I do however have another question about the beta testing of the game, was there a company that tested the game officially or was it just open beta? Thanks again.

[Gamevizier]

C++ is mostly used for big budget games, but if you're intrested in gaming you should know that being a great programmer isn't going to be enough. games like L.A Noire need complex "Game Engines" which are created by a team of coders fammiliar with video games. a game engine is pretty much where everything comes together to form the game, the models, the codes, the audio and cinematics and such. it takes months or even 2-3 years to develop an engine depending on how complex and advance you want that engine to be.

Instances of these engines are :

Unreal Engine.
Crytek Engine.
Ogre Engine.
Havoc Engine. (This one is physics Engine I believe.)

you should read more on game engines and how to develop them.

also keep in mind that games such as L.A Noire cannot be made by one or even a team of 10. (they can be made...but they take a loong looong time) let's say a team of +30 is needed (3d modelers, coders, 2d designers.) you should try modding a couple of games too and study modding for start.

[Soulwind]

Also videogame AI =/= Real attemps at creating an AI. In videogames an AI has to learn a bit from the player so it doesn't get trapped and killed easily. It doesn't try to emulate feelings or imagination. So your argument abour AIs, Kuntantee, is against you in this matter.

Even an Operative System is more complex than a game. Do you believe satellites are simple? A robot surgeon? I do think games are hard to make, and I respect those who make them. But it's not the hardest coding work in the world. At all.

[Howard Moon]

Also videogame AI =/= Real attemps at creating an AI. In videogames an AI has to learn a bit from the player so it doesn't get trapped and killed easily. It doesn't try to emulate feelings or imagination. So your argument abour AIs, Kuntantee, is against you in this matter.

Even an Operative System is more complex than a game. Do you believe satellites are simple? A robot surgeon? I do think games are hard to make, and I respect those who make them. But it's not the hardest coding work in the world. At all.

Thank god, finally someone understands what I'm trying to say.

I also agree that the "Videogame AI simulates the human brain" statement is a huge exaggeration. Here, the monster AI of most videogames looks something like this:

if (player in field of view)
  shoot at player
else
  keep walking along pre-defined path
end

Of course modern videogames have AI much more complex than that, but I doubt it is more than 1000 lines of code in most cases. On the other hand, when I said that the psychoacoustic engine of an audio encoder mimics the auditory system (most of which takes place in the brain, btw), I wasn't exaggerating at all.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread, it was my fault. I made it much more interesting, though I'll be leaving this discussion now too, ciao.