[Megathread] StarCraft 2

[Deleted]

I guess I'm either a nice guy, prey on drunk people, good looking or have a massive penis.

Nope try again.

[MerinPally]

Nope try again.

In which case maybe he was right with the fitness, certain muscles of mine are very toned now.

[Wass]

Running? I've done no exercise since uni began, I guess I'm either a nice guy, prey on drunk people, good looking or have a massive penis.

And how come you have such good stamina then?

[Deleted]

Why are we talking about stamina and massive penises in a Starcraft thread?

[MerinPally]

And how come you have such good stamina then?

Copious amounts of fun. And alcohol. And making a fool of myself. Apparently, quite a lot when we go out and its closing time and all the females are waiting for us or have disappeared, we end up doing a workout on the dancefloor involving pressups and the like. I have no recollection of these events but apparently they're true, we got kicked out a few times for it. Exercise and I don't even have to remember doing it, great huh?

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 11:02 PM ----------

Why are we talking about stamina and massive penises in a Starcraft thread?

He started it

So I really hope the oracle changes make it through. Might be good.

[Deleted]

Have they changed the APM counter? For some reason my APM is <100 when it used to be >200 :/

[Blackdecker]

Have they changed the APM counter? For some reason my APM is <100 when it used to be >200 :/

Yes, they changed it back to WoL
Back to rank#1 plat again, was fun to climb the ladder, 23 games 19 wins

[-Zait-]

Have they changed the APM counter? For some reason my APM is <100 when it used to be >200 :/

I think they changed it to negate some of the APM spam.

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 04:12 PM ----------

He started it

So I really hope the oracle changes make it through. Might be good.

Aren't they good enough? Terran will be destroyed by this change, Oracles are already so good against them. (x

[blib]

Using infestors to easily catch marines died when Fungal Growth became a non instant projectile and babies came out of the womb faster than that thing travels. Zerg just requires a different kind of micro now. Before it was to aid the surround and fungals were easier to land. Nowadays the surround is easier to get due to better AI and the fungals are tougher. To play stuff really well was and is hard, just in a different way. Some people still find some bits easier/harder than others, you can't just sweep it and say "this is hard, this is easy, the end". Not quite at least.

The fungals still aren't hard to land as long as you are controlling the engagement which you will be if you engage him on creep or in a fairly narrow but not to narrow space because his only option at that point is to stutter step back or get blown up by blings. His defense against being blown up by blings is his micro which get shut down by the fungals and as many objections as I'm getting I'm still not getting a answer as to how you should fight that army. On thing he could do, which is really extremely good versus Ultras is fighting behind and in between buildings since the Ultras AI is kinda bad at certain things.

Ofc it's still hard and no one, at least not me, is arguing it isn't. What I am saying is that the Infestor is very hard to play against and only at best moderately hard to use. To avoid the fungals banelings and Ultras require extreme micro on your opponents part, certainly more then whats required of you to force him to do that micro.

I challenge you to play both races in a situation like that and see which one spikes your apm higher. My apm as a Terran is almost twice what it is as Zerg in this situations. Obviously my apm as both races are about equal at the end of a game, depending on the game and my level of spam, but during a engagement like that it's not really a competition.

Contrary to what some seem to believe I'm not saying Zerg is op as a race,which it quite obviously isn't. As a matter of fact, pro players and Blizzards number alike seem to suggest we are seeing the most balanced version of this game thus far, including WOL. But certain things within the races is not good, ZvZ with muta wars is one example and in my opinion so is the infestor vs bio/mine. It makes positioning less important for the Zerg and it makes it easier for the Zerg which I really don't like.

As to that specific game, which specific piece of micro is it people believe made Suppy outplay his opponent who was vastly ahead and, at lest to me, looked like he was working a lot harder then Suppy himself? Suppy was so far behind in that game and his chances of winning at that point was not at all good and yet, he didn't pull out any "omg!!!" micro or anything he spewed out some infested Terran's and steam rolled his opponents army.

Also, just because I'm not bothering to write two separate answers I will just say that saying someone is lying because you disagree with them is exceptionally childish. I am high masters as Zerg, low masters as Terran and I have a third account on which I also play Zerg in low masters which is mostly for playing on when I know I'm to tired to play good or just want to troll.

[MerinPally]

Aren't they good enough? Terran will be destroyed by this change, Oracles are already so good against them. (x

I'm not sure to be honest. I'm thinking in terms of giving the unit some longevity. Zerg is fine soon as it gets queens out, all a Terran has to do is build a missile turret which is like 100minerals - or a viking to close down its usage later on. PvP will have it worse as a cannon costs more.

The other way to see it is almost as Drop Defense. Zerg harass terran with mutas, terran has to react and defend it. Terran harass Terran with drops. Protoss drops aren't really that great because the warp prism can be easily killed by Queens or a Viking. Our harass, whilst it hurts, is really limited and can be shut down easily. This will make it a little bit harder to shut down, also making it last longer into the game by the same method. Z and T harass can last most of the game and do well. If you're remotely prepared for a warp prism (a patrolling viking, just 1) then it's over. It gives protoss the harass I'm not sure we need, but definitely something we lack. Will have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Wass]

Copious amounts of fun. And alcohol. And making a fool of myself. Apparently, quite a lot when we go out and its closing time and all the females are waiting for us or have disappeared, we end up doing a workout on the dancefloor involving pressups and the like. I have no recollection of these events but apparently they're true, we got kicked out a few times for it. Exercise and I don't even have to remember doing it, great huh?

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 11:02 PM ----------



He started it

So I really hope the oracle changes make it through. Might be good.

On phone so quoting is hard, but you started it.

[-Zait-]

I'm not sure to be honest. I'm thinking in terms of giving the unit some longevity. Zerg is fine soon as it gets queens out, all a Terran has to do is build a missile turret which is like 100minerals - or a viking to close down its usage later on. PvP will have it worse as a cannon costs more.

The other way to see it is almost as Drop Defense. Zerg harass terran with mutas, terran has to react and defend it. Terran harass Terran with drops. Protoss drops aren't really that great because the warp prism can be easily killed by Queens or a Viking. Our harass, whilst it hurts, is really limited and can be shut down easily. This will make it a little bit harder to shut down, also making it last longer into the game by the same method. Z and T harass can last most of the game and do well. If you're remotely prepared for a warp prism (a patrolling viking, just 1) then it's over. It gives protoss the harass I'm not sure we need, but definitely something we lack. Will have to wait and see how it plays out.

I was thinking more of Oracle rushes. A Terran doesn't normally rush an engineering bay, and proxy Oracles or even just simple Oracle rushes are already so strong. Making them faster would be hitting the nail further into the coffin... unless they make it so Terran can make turrets after making a barracks, like how they made it so Zerg can make spores after spawning pool.

[MerinPally]

On phone so quoting is hard, but you started it.

I would never

I was thinking more of Oracle rushes. A Terran doesn't normally rush an engineering bay, and proxy Oracles or even just simple Oracle rushes are already so strong. Making them faster would be hitting the nail further into the coffin... unless they make it so Terran can make turrets after making a barracks, like how they made it so Zerg can make spores after spawning pool.

It would turn the reaper opening into a defensive one where you'd have to scout around your base rather than racing to your opponent. Would also be a situation where you'd lose the ability to rush marines and maurauders and get some defense. Dunno really, any Terran who is remotely prepared for an oracle to come early has very few problems holding it even if its a proxy. Coming a little bit earlier by a few seconds isn't going to change as much as people think I reckon.

[Charge me Doctor]

I was thinking more of Oracle rushes. A Terran doesn't normally rush an engineering bay, and proxy Oracles or even just simple Oracle rushes are already so strong. Making them faster would be hitting the nail further into the coffin... unless they make it so Terran can make turrets after making a barracks, like how they made it so Zerg can make spores after spawning pool.

And then oracles will be useless in harassment (their main job). 100 minerals to deny a oracle rush and DT rush by just throwing 100 minerals as race, who has mules?

Oracles not that hard to deal with if you scouted them.
I hate lack of counterplay from enemy, when i see terran shutting up his two bases and just sitting there while i take 4 bases is boring.
But they can make it and remove stealth detection from turrets and move it to research in eng bay, then it will be too late to deal with DT rush or banshee (haven't seen them for ages). Or make stealth detection require eng bay being build.
Spore crawlers are weaker than missile turrets, they do almost twice less damage and they recently were buffed to deal with mutas. I see two ways to make oracles more useless indirectly:
1) Removing pre-required buildings.
2) Increase damage of static defenses.

I see increased movement speed on Oracles as buff against "non-static defense" (when you put stalkers on mineral line) and buff to "left-overs" of oracles after enemy build static defense. Now they have even better scouting capabilities and can replace observer in your ball if you don't want to do a speed research on observer.
I've seen a lot of doomsday threads about Oracles having 4 speed. But it's the same speed as Mutas and i don't see much problem about it. Yes, it will be harder to keep your marines and scvs alive, and they still will 2 shot single marine BUT! to do so, they need to be at range, and Oracle range is shorter than Marines, if you have enough marines, single oracle will not be a problem to deal with.


And honestly, i've seen oracles build around 7th minute, is terran is so mineral blocked that he can't afford engineering bay earlier? Don't be greedy terran, scout, and rush as soon as you spotted oracles, protoss won't have strong defense at that point

[Wass]

Can someone post a link to upcoming balance changes so I can have a look at them on my phone? Or just recap all the info here.

[Charge me Doctor]

I copy-pasted gameplay changes

Patch 2.0.8.
General
Fixed a display issue in which Worker Status UI could cover town hall status bars in very high resolutions.
Fixed a rare crash that could occur when attacking an AI base.
Terran
It is no longer possible for SCVs to be left inside of a vespene geyser after canceling an under-construction Refinery.
The Collector’s Edition Thor wireframe is now displays properly.
Protoss
The Void Ray’s Prismatic Alignment ability now plays a sound effect when activated.
The Mothership’s Time Warp ability now plays a dissipation sound effect.
Zerg
Fixed an issue that caused uprooted Spine Crawlers to occasionally appear rooted.
Creep Tumors being created from an existing Creep Tumor can no longer be attacked before they are visible.
Zerg eggs no longer play extraneous sound effects when units hatch.


And that's from Akilon Wastes (2.0.7 Balance v1.0) map:
Spore Crawler damage increased from 15 +15 vs. biological to 15 +30 vs. biological
Burrow research cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50
Oracle movement speed increased from 3.375 to 4
Oracle acceleration increased from 2 to 3

[Wass]

Thank you Doctor. Or should I say Heavy.

Extra speed won't change much for me as terran tbh. I have adapted my builds so I can handle fast oracles well enough already. Reapers are imba scouts. Would never encorporate as a defensive unit.

[Charge me Doctor]

I wonder if Burrow will be used more often. It's so fun to block terran expansion buy burrowed zegling in bronze

[MerinPally]

As a non zerg, burrow has confused me for a long time. It reminds me of a lot of abilities in WoW pre cataclysm. A lot of fun, occasionally useful but generally not but you can be creative with it and enjoy it. Outside of using it with infestors it seems pretty useless. With a 50/50 cost maybe it'll be seen and used more but... I dunno really. Kinda sad for it, I want it to be useful more because I think it's cool than it's effective.

[Deleted]

As a non zerg, burrow has confused me for a long time. It reminds me of a lot of abilities in WoW pre cataclysm. A lot of fun, occasionally useful but generally not but you can be creative with it and enjoy it. Outside of using it with infestors it seems pretty useless. With a 50/50 cost maybe it'll be seen and used more but... I dunno really. Kinda sad for it, I want it to be useful more because I think it's cool than it's effective.

I agree, it's no where as useful as cloaked units. Roaches benefit from it most but they can't attack when burrowed and using it just forces a scan/observer. Not even close to the damage a handful of DT's can do if no detection is available.

In ZvZ I have seen players burrow drones to avoid run-bys also, useful to buy time until a overseer arrives. Also buried baneling are effective vs bio, just they can't reload or shoot air like another unit that plays a similar role...