MMO-Champion - Oct 18 Raid Testing, Loot Update, Raid Videos, Blue Posts
Beta Raid Testing Schedule for Oct. 18
Tonight is another session of raid testing! Things are definitely going fast and you can expect new items and a couple of streams on the front page.
Originally Posted by Daelo (Blue Tracker)
More raid testing!

There will be two sessions, an EU session starting at 11AM server time (PDT), and a US timed session at 4PM server time (PDT). We'll open the zones on all Beta realms (including KR!) for both sessions.

The following encounters will be tested:

Chimaeron in Blackwing Descent
Theralion and Valiona in The Bastion of Twilight
Conclave of Wind in Throne of the Four Winds

Blackwing Descent is a raid zone with an entrance located along the side of Blackrock Mountain.
The Bastion of Twilight's entrance is located within Twilight Highlands.
The Throne of the Four Winds entrance is in SW Uldum off the coast.

Since these are the beta realms, this schedule is subject to change at a moment's notice due to bugs and server issues. More raid tests will be occurring over the next few weeks.
Now that the raid testing has started you can expect regular loot updates, here is a list of the items discovered on test realms during yesterday's testing. Item models aren't really implemented yet, no screenshots for the moment!

ilvlTypeSpecSlotItem
359AxeMeleeTwo-HandShalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
359CrossbowPhysical DPSRangedFinely-Tuned Throat Needler
359StaffHealTwo-HandDark Mender's Staff
359StaffPhysical DPSTwo-HandMalevolence
359SwordMeleeOne-HandSoul Blade
359WandHealRangedFinkle's Mixer Upper
359WandSpell DPSRangedTheresa's Booklight
359Off-HandSpell DPSOff-handBook of Binding Will
359PlateHealLegsLegguards of the Emerald Brood
359PlateHealShoulderBurden of Mortality
359PlateHealWaistCorehammer's Riveted Girdle
359PlateMeleeFeetMassacre Treads
359PlateMeleeHandsPlated Fists of Provocation
359PlateMeleeShoulderPauldrons of the Great Ettin
359PlateMeleeWristBracers of Impossible Strength
359MailSpellHeadHelm of the Nether Scion
359MailSpellWristChaos Beast Bracers
359MailPhys.DPSHandsProto-Handler's Gauntlets
359MailPhys.DPSWristChimaron Armguards
359LeatherSpellFeetFading Violet Sandals
359LeatherSpellShoulderHide of Chromaggus
359LeatherPhys.DPSFeetStorm Rider's Boots
359LeatherPhys.DPSHandsDouble Attack Handguards
359ClothHealChestRobes of the Burning Acolyte
359ClothHealFeetSlippers of Moving Waters
359ClothHealHandsBrackish Gloves
359ClothSpell DPSFeetMelodious Slippers
359ClothSpell DPSFeetEinhorn's Galoshes
359ClothSpell DPSWristBracers of the Bronze Flight
359NeckSpell SpiritNeckWyrmbreaker's Amulet
359FingerMeleeFingerBile-O-Tron Nut
359TrinketMeleeTrinketFury of Angerforge
359TrinketMeleeTrinketHeart of Rage
359TrinketPhys.DPSTrinketEssence of the Cyclone
359TrinketPhys.DPSTrinketUnheeded Warning


Cataclysm Raid Testing Videos - Omnitron Defense System / Halfus Wyrmbreaker
Videos of yesterday testing are available on Youtube.

Omnitron Defense System





Halfus Wyrmbreaker





Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
AoE Balance
You're conflating two different problems, both related to AoE.

Problem 1: Mage uses Blizzard every pull. Starts to wonder what that Frostbolt button is for.

Problem 2: Warrior uses Thunder Clap every pull*. Starts to wonder what that Shield Slam button is for.

* - Yes, I know you need to TClap for the debuff, at least on dangerous pulls. But the debuff lasts a long time. There is a big difference between generating threat with Shield Slam / Devastate / Revenge and using Thunder Clap for the debuff and just using Thunder Clap to generate threat.

AoE balance for both dps and tanks (hell, for healers too for that matter) is very delicate. If the numbers are too low, then it's never effective to use them. BC felt like this for much of the duration. If the numbers are too high, then it's always effective to use them, particularly given how easy it is when you don't have to pick out individual targets.

In both cases, the problems come down to repetition. Most endgame players kill a lot monsters. When every fight feels similar, because you approach it the same way with the same tools, then it's easy for boredom to set in. Ideally, you'd go from say a 5 pull to a 2 pull to a swarm to a single target boss to a 5 pull to a 3 pull to a boss with adds, and so on. But even in that situation, if the pacing is too predictable then you fall back into a pattern and boredom can get in again. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Holy Paladins (I suggest that you read the even longer original post)
I feel like we have done this several times and what many paladins are looking for is not an explanation, but buffs. Nevertheless, I'll take you at your word and try and boil down our design intent.

The Past

The BC and LK design of the Holy paladin was basically to use one or two spells and get a lot of use out of them. This is sort of like the mage dps design, where there aren't a lot of sources of damage, but there are a lot of other factors (cooldowns, procs etc.) that make how you use those spells more interesting. So rather than the paladin having 5 different heals, they pretty much used Flash of Light or Holy Light (depending a little on what gear stats and encounters looked like at the time) but with other spells to boost those heals, such as Beacon of Light and Divine Favor, and then all the paladin support abilities, like the Hands.

Paladins (all three specs really) were designed to be a really passive class, with Protection doing a lot of passive threat generation (e.g. Consecrate) and survivability (e.g. Ardent Defender), Ret doing a lot of passive damage (e.g. Seal damage, Vengeance) and Holy doing a lot of passive healing (e.g. Judgement of Light).

It made paladins play really differently for sure, but it was also kind of boring. Because so much of what the class did was passive, players weren't making a lot of choices. Because they weren't making a lot of choices, there wasn't a huge difference between good and bad paladins except gear. I don't really think any of the specs were as "faceroll" as they often get labeled. However, the deltas between the good and bad player weren't large enough -- great paladins were great and bad paladins were pretty good. Honestly, the group to whom that is the most unfair is the paladin -- you can work and work just for a marginal gain above the guy who just picked up the class.

We made some pretty radical changes to the paladin class for Cataclysm. There is another resource to master. There are opportunities to do the wrong thing. A great paladin will have earned his or her greatness.

The Holy paladin niche, especially in Lich King, was to be the single target healer. In a raid, this almost always meant the tank healer. We designed boss damage to tanks specifically around what Holy paladins could heal. It was okay for paladin healing to be overpowered, because they really weren't competing with anyone for tank healing privileges and we could just make the bosses hit harder. The paladin tree wasn't very sexy though. It came with a lot of passive, boring or downright useless talents. Paladins were at the forefront of our mind when we decided to change talent trees.

Being in the same role all the time also gets boring. Imagine only one melee class (say rogues) had a reliable interrupt, so rogues were always given interrupt duty. Imagine mages had the only form of crowd control -- every encounter that's what the mage would be doing. When the Holy paladin can only heal the tank, then every encounter starts to feel similar to the poor paladin healer. They never have a chance to offer to stick with the second group or to raid heal or to watch the melee. With our attempt to make 10-player raids feel more legit, we wanted to handle the possibility that you might end up with two paladin healers (or perhaps a Disc priest and a paladin healer). We'd prefer you to run with a diverse raid comp, but we understand that isn't always possible.

There are Holy paladins who are used to being overpowered, because frankly that's the way things were for a long time (again, metered by the fact that your niche was very narrow). For them, anything is going to feel like a nerf. Likewise, there were players who were attracted to the class because it was very simple. We heard for years from the paladins who wanted something more to do, so it doesn't surprise us that now that we're delivering on that, some of the paladins who were fine with the status quo are now voicing their displeasure. Overall, we're very happy with the new design. We think it's fun to heal as a paladin. The numbers might not be quite right yet, but that's the kind of thing we're still tweaking. Perhaps two years from now there will be a lot more going in with Holy Power, but we think we have a good framework from which to iterate.

The Future

We think Holy paladins are good at 85. Holy Radiance is a powerful AE heal. Light of Dawn is too, though it's more situational. It really shines in larger raids. (Maybe we should have switched which was the talent and which was the core ability, but we knew Light of Dawn could have a more dramatic graphic effect since it was instant, which we wanted to reserve for the healer.) Paladins have more choices now about how to heal single targets -- they have a similar arsenal as the other healers when choosing between efficiency, speed or throughput. They can choose to avoid healing the Beaconed target or go ahead and heal the Beaconed target, with different results for each. They still have a little bit of self healing with talents light Enlightened Judgements and Protector of the Innocent to try to keep that feel of them healing two targets at once, as well as being sturdy healers, as fits someone wearing plate and carrying a shield. Mana efficiency is something to keep an eye on, but we have a lot of knobs to turn with things like Seal of Insight and Beacon of Light. We recently made a change to make Judging Seal of Insight provide more mana to the paladin. Paladins can heal fine in 5-player dungeons and are doing great in raids so far, though we're about to get a whole lot more data on that.

The Present

Unfortunately, many of these strengths don't show up at 80. Missing Holy Radiance is huge. Mana isn't much of a problem on live today partially because health pools are still much smaller. There isn't much of a choice about whether to use Holy Light because the comparatively low expense of Flash of Light, coupled with the risk that someone may die at any second makes the decision about which heal to use not too challenging. We haven't seen too much evidence yet that paladins are much poorer tank healers than other classes, though I understand many of you feel that to be the case. (It also doens't help that the popular logging programs and websites aren't showing Holy mastery yet.) If we do decide Holy can't competitively tank heal any longer, then we will buff them. This is tricky though. Too much of a buff and paladins and raid leaders are just going to conclude "Oh, Holy paladin = main tank healer" again. Contrary to what you might suspect, our blue posts reach a very small fraction of even the raiding community. Mana may be a bigger problem at 80 just because we tended in the past to avoid putting regen stats on healing plate, and many paladins are sticking with the old models of stacking spellpower or haste, even when faced with mana problems.

Also contrary to how you might feel, we think we did pretty well with healer balance in Lich King. All 5 healing specs were represented. We think we can erode their niches a little, such that the two druid raid can heal fine, or such that you can put a Holy priest on the tank and a paladin on the raid, without having the healer that nobody will want. We haven't been in a situation where a healer gets sat for a long time. I don't think it will be that way in Cataclysm either.

As a footnote, it's always hard to talk about the "average healer," let alone the "average WoW player." There were paladins struggling for mana before this most recent patch and those who balanced their Flash of Light and Holy Light use. There were probably some who healed the raid and doing an awesome job. We have to look at lots of different players and often talk about you in more general terms than you actually possess. Just because any of the above doesn't apply to you personally doesn't make it an invalid conclusion. Just keep that in mind. (Source)

MMO Report
Hey, look, it's the MMO Report!



Comics
Dark Legacy Comic #260 and Teh Gladiators #176 + #177 are out!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Oct 18 Raid Testing, Loot Update, Raid Videos, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 92 Comments
  1. Vidal's Avatar
    :< FINALLY VIDS ON YOUTUBE! <3 boub <3
  1. Terrax of the Wind's Avatar
    Holy hell that raid seems O-SOME!!

    Edit: What in god's green earth was that Holy pally spamming from :27 to :37 (Paragon's vid)?? SO MUCH GREEN NUMBERS!
  1. Rekuiem's Avatar
    *continues to hide in the bushes*
  1. Ataris's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    The post isn't on the front page yet! stop stalking me when I work! OH GOD PEOPLE WATCHING ME EVERYWHERE!
    We do what we can.

    </watchingyou>
  1. Parr's Avatar
    You sure your really feeling paranoid boub? I have a report saying that you looked very relaxed in the bath this morning...
  1. one_entity's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    The post isn't on the front page yet! stop stalking me when I work! OH GOD PEOPLE WATCHING ME EVERYWHERE!
    *hides even better... and watches...*
  1. Jedimas729's Avatar
    Woots for more testing tonight! I'll have to make sure I get home from work and online in time to get into a test raid group.
  1. Riched's Avatar
    I hope the raids don't lag and skip like they did for a friend and I yesterday..
  1. juelz's Avatar
    Fury of Angerforge, wow
  1. Xendrie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    The post isn't on the front page yet! stop stalking me when I work! OH GOD PEOPLE WATCHING ME EVERYWHERE!
    we are only making sure you do your work
  1. bloodwine77's Avatar
    I am glad that they are tuning down AoE threat generation and AoE DPS.

    Trade chat is filled with tanks yelling, "GG BLIZZ YOU RUINED TANKING!! WHY YOU NERF TANKS SO HARD?!?!?!!!1" because the tanks can't just go in and ez-mode AoE all the trash. If these people would shut up for a minute then they might realize that tanking classes across-the-board had their AoE threat generated nerfed and their particular class wasn't singled out.

    The same goes for DPS AoE. WotLK heroics and raids are boring because you just spam your AoE abilities throughout the entire encounter (except for bosses).

    I'd like to see dungeons, heroics, and raids in Cataclysm end up somewhere between TBC and WotLK in terms of difficulty. I don't miss the multi-hour Shadow Labs runs, but heroics today are complete jokes. I look forward to using CC again.
  1. Nathiest's Avatar
    So tired of GC saying Paladins where "boring", or broken. So many people cursing you out on a daily bases proves otherwise asshole! Who was complaining? Beside little bitches that got owned by Paladins and those who didn't have a clue how to play em properly.

    Paladins where the funnest class to play in this game for many of people.


    ugh whatever.
  1. freernnur5's Avatar
    Fury of Angerforge sounds awesome.

    Also yay more raid testing!
  1. The Master's Avatar
    "What the... That's it! Einhorn is Finkle! Finkle is Einhorn! Einhorn is a ... man! Oh, my GOD! Einhorn is a man!"

    It's completely relevant. Look at the loot list. That's not the first time it's been referenced but I love that movie. hahaha
  1. smcn's Avatar
    Tron Council was a lot of fun. The first time I ever went into a raid with absolutely no knowledge. Quite an experience.
  1. Gromstas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwine77 View Post
    I am glad that they are tuning down AoE threat generation and AoE DPS.

    Trade chat is filled with tanks yelling, "GG BLIZZ YOU RUINED TANKING!! WHY YOU NERF TANKS SO HARD?!?!?!!!1" because the tanks can't just go in and ez-mode AoE all the trash. If these people would shut up for a minute then they might realize that tanking classes across-the-board had their AoE threat generated nerfed and their particular class wasn't singled out.

    The same goes for DPS AoE. WotLK heroics and raids are boring because you just spam your AoE abilities throughout the entire encounter (except for bosses).

    I'd like to see dungeons, heroics, and raids in Cataclysm end up somewhere between TBC and WotLK in terms of difficulty. I don't miss the multi-hour Shadow Labs runs, but heroics today are complete jokes. I look forward to using CC again.

    well it looks like the new heroic are going to be much longer than wotlk heroics. so many people bitched that they were joke and they were short, but i liked the shorter runs, just for the reason i could run many in a day, however with cata people want 3 hour long dungeons, making it so only the hardcore/people spend alll their time playing wow would be getting stuff done.

    and i dont like Blizz forcing us to play a certain way. I understand that they want to bring back the need to CC pulls i get it, but they dont have to nerf aoe to do it, and nerf the threat on tclap either, just make the pulls/mobs harder. They could make CC necessary with dungeon/mob design, not with making our attacks so weak is not worth using, thats just fucking stupid.
  1. smcn's Avatar
    BTW, for labeling the gear into archetypes... I would label anything with Hit/Expertise, Expertise/Mastery, or Hit/Mastery as "Melee/Tank", and anything with Dodge or Parry as "Tank".
  1. Taiki420's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathiest View Post
    So tired of GC saying Paladins where "boring", or broken. So many people cursing you out on a daily bases proves otherwise asshole! Who was complaining? Beside little bitches that got owned by Paladins and those who didn't have a clue how to play em properly.

    Paladins where the funnest class to play in this game for many of people.


    ugh whatever.
    3.0:
    Ret = Strum 1-5 repeatedly, throw in AW every now and then.
    Prot = Taunt..9..6..9..6..9..6..9

    Anyone who isn't brain dead were the ones complaining.
  1. Nienor's Avatar
    Damn once again 2H axes /sigh
  1. drhovertop's Avatar
    That axe is definitely gonna unmake stuff.

Site Navigation