Tier 11 Valor Point Hotfix

Good Idea IMO for my tank/dps dk all my gear is 353 or higher (with the exception of my JC only trinket for both sets) so I really dont need anything from ZA/ZG and only getting JP from raids makes it not really worth doing because I dont need anything from JP anymore. So Im truly only there to try to get 359 gear for the 353 slots that I have still which rarely drop for me anyway. At least this way i can get VP to get some more 372 gear so I can start tanking Firelands with my guild.

Originally Posted by KingHorse

If I'm reading the person you quoted correctly, I believe he's referring to the rapid e-peen deflation he'll suffer. That, combined with him falling for the "majority" fallacy (an individual believing that their opinions are shared by the majority of people) leads to the statement you quoted.

I thought E-peening was based on boss achievements and not gear...

So all this time Kinghorse, I have been sitting around SW in front of the AH with my 'Kingslayer' title for nothing.......

Originally Posted by Azrile

Not a bad change. I would rather do tier 11 on alts with friends than do troll pugs.

Totally agree. I would even rather do a friend / guild tier 11 run on my main instead of the 3 trolls.

next step, give 180 conquest point for your first bg win. yay.......




NOT


sorry casual raiders,i dont just get why you have life so easy ( even if you guys think its still hard ). we ''worked'' very hard to loot those bosses that you guys are still failing at 1/2 even if they got nerfed by 20% i think... i dont get the logic seriously. but hey blizz loves casual since 80%+ players are casual. business is business....

Originally Posted by deven04

I thought E-peening was based on boss achievements and not gear...

So all this time Kinghorse, I have been sitting around SW in front of the AH with my 'Kingslayer' title for nothing.......

Titles aren't e-peen based, they're pure pride.

The poster I was referring to clearly bases his self worth on his VP bought gear, and believes that other people obtaining gear with VP is a detriment to the health and safety of the world (of Warcraft)

More clearly: I'm making fun of some poor kid who got his feelings hurt over the VP change. The VP change is good for people who need it, harmless for people who don't, and terrible for people who tie their self confidence to the fact that they have gear that someone else doesn't.

---------- Post added 2011-07-19 at 10:47 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Loriginalediscipline

next step, give 180 conquest point for your first bg win. yay.......

NOT

sorry casual raiders,i dont just get why you have life so easy ( even if you guys think its still hard ). we ''worked'' very hard to loot those bosses that you guys are still failing at 1/2 even if they got nerfed by 20% i think... i dont get the logic seriously. but hey blizz loves casual since 80%+ players are casual. business is business....

Like this guy. Tell me why it bothers you that someone else gets gear? You have your goals, you have your achievements. People that can't meet those goals won't get those Achievements. You will be able to show off your title to prove your accomplishments. "Casuals" that haven't done what you've done can obtain about half the gear you can by clearing everything. Now tell us all why that's a problem?

I'm confused, just clear T12 content and you cap every week, I'm doing it with a majority of hard modes and I'm not even in that great a guild. Except in 10 man, then you just need to run a simple regular heroic. The content is now T12, not T11. If you're having to run multiple heroics on your main every week because you can't get normal mode T12 bosses down in 2-3 nights, find a better guild imo or find a guild and stop pugging it. Learn how to play the game for once and stop asking for freebies or you'll never get better. My guild has two runs clearing Firelands, and we have a run for alts and even those guys are doing normal 7/7. It is a completely unnecessary change. I haven't run those troll instances since the first week they were out, and ZA was only to get the bear. It's mind blowing that people welcome this change - Blizzard isn't just listening to the people that can't play their game, they're encouraging them not to actually learn how either. Consolation prizes for the whiners.

Originally Posted by CrunkJuice5

fine,then do like 2 troll heroics if you care about capping your vp

your math fails, in order to cap from just doing heroics, you either have to do 7 troll heroics, or 7 normal heroics, and 4 troll heroics, or some other combination, and honestly, the t11 raids are easier than the troll heroics now

---------- Post added 2011-07-19 at 10:56 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Shrymp

This is exactly the case. Woohoo! 35 valor points. Who the hell cares? I suppose you could go clear BWD in an hour and a half and get 210VP... and that's if you don't make any mistakes.

Seriously though, this change doesn't really entice current Firelands raiders to cap using anything except ZA/ZG and normal heroics.

you can easily clear BWD in less than an hour now

---------- Post added 2011-07-19 at 11:03 AM ----------

im really starting to think that people don't realize that blizzard doesnt have the resources to keep the game alive and cater to the smaller part of the population, they're running a business, they have to do what they can to keep the majority of the population (i.e. "casuals") paying to continue making profit, the people saying stop catering to casuals clearly have no business sense whatsoever

That banshee has some big ole' titties.

A large point that's been overlooked: Blizzard's design goal was to have people run T11 before stepping into FL; however, that most certainly isn't happening on my server. When Firelands dropped, the PUG's for the T11 raids basically vanished overnight.

Now the FL trash runs have mostly stopped (people getting their rep / BOE's / whatever), and the average raid guild is maybe killing Shannox and wiping on Beth'ilac currently. There wasn't any point to running the old T11 content in this model: why spend time for suboptimal results that are putting you even further behind the progression curve?

Sure there were some that'd do it to break up the monotony, but this change may actually cause people to revisit the T11 raids on various alts, compared to now which was all spent grinding ZA/ZG or BG's for the Honor gear. Smart change on Blizzard's part, and I welcome it.

Can I haz Avenger of Hyjal rep for doing nerfed T11 too? pweez?

Originally Posted by lolipopp

O_O raiding/puging outdated content for best rewards ...i guess we are going back to super casual wotlk model that most of us hated after some time for obvious reasons

The best rewards are still in heroic Firelands.

I personally have an issue with the fact that you receive the same amount of points for regular, ultra-nerfed-so-much-they-aren't-the-same-fights-anymore bosses as you get from un-nerfed heroic versions of those fights. I think three valor amount tiers should have been introduced, with T12>H T11>T11. Don't get me wrong, regular T11 giving valor is nice and all, but way to cheapen the content that still takes some organization and skill to complete (Heroic T11).

"Learn how to play the game for once and stop asking for freebies or you'll never get better."Why do lesser players need to get better at the game? What does better mean - beating end game bosses? Why is that the goal that Blizzard should impose on players? I am unsure where the "competition" ideology is coming from. Why cant they just stay a tier of gear behind the better players? There already is a system(s) BUILT IN that differentiates the top players from everyone else. Here is a thought experiment.... Imagine that Blizzard dedicated an entire server to the top 50 guilds on the planet. All of them existed on this single server. The same exact order would naturally occur. The #1 top guild would complain that guild #50 isn't learning how to play the game properly and needs to stop complaining and to get better and stop using valor points to get freebie gear.

Decent change. Just came back from wasting 4 months on Rift, and decided to start a new character for a completely fresh start. T11 was boring, but 359 > 353, so where the opportunity presents itself, I fully intend on doing these T11's. No reason for this to be met with such scrutiny imo. If you'd rather run ZA/ZG, the option's clearly there. If you still have gaps to fill in your pre-Firelands gear, or have a good group of people you enjoy playing with, there's the option of running T11's.

---------- Post added 2011-07-19 at 05:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Loriginalediscipline

next step, give 180 conquest point for your first bg win. yay.......




NOT


sorry casual raiders,i dont just get why you have life so easy ( even if you guys think its still hard ). we ''worked'' very hard to loot those bosses that you guys are still failing at 1/2 even if they got nerfed by 20% i think... i dont get the logic seriously. but hey blizz loves casual since 80%+ players are casual. business is business....

What difference does it make if 'casuals' reach their cap from T11's or from heroic 5-mans?

That logic doesn't even make sense... Who would you accept into your Guild? The guy who is 353 ilvl having never done a raid in WoW or the 359 ilvl guy who came late to the party and, albeit nerfed content, has actually been outside of a 5-man?

The choice is pretty obvious to me. Not sure how it seems to elude the masses here. They didn't raise the VP cap. They created another option of getting to it. For someone cracking insults at casuals, your logic of raid gear via 5-mans is more "casual friendly" than this change.

---------- Post added 2011-07-19 at 05:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Argothea

I personally have an issue with the fact that you receive the same amount of points for regular, ultra-nerfed-so-much-they-aren't-the-same-fights-anymore bosses as you get from un-nerfed heroic versions of those fights. I think three valor amount tiers should have been introduced, with T12>H T11>T11. Don't get me wrong, regular T11 giving valor is nice and all, but way to cheapen the content that still takes some organization and skill to complete (Heroic T11).

Just so we're on the same page... You're suggesting that the troll heroics are in any way more difficult than t11's, even post nerf?

If that's the case... Well, yeah. Maybe you zoned into a different troll heroic than I did, because they're pretty faceroll to me.

Just did BWD and only got justice points, and no, I wasn't valor capped. Only had 120 valor points for the week.

Originally Posted by jimme

Just did BWD and only got justice points, and no, I wasn't valor capped. Only had 120 valor points for the week.

If you're in the US, it's maintenance.

If you're in EU, isn't their maintenance tomorrow? Hotfixes aren't applied until the server is restarted, which under normal circumstances would be the weekly maintenance.

Just so we're on the same page... You're suggesting that the troll heroics are in any way more difficult than t11's, even post nerf?If that's the case... Well, yeah. Maybe you zoned into a different troll heroic than I did, because they're pretty faceroll to me.

To be honest, I had thought that the Troll 5 mans were being dropped down to Justice with the patch. I wasn't really taking them into account with my post, but in a perfect world, I do think they should give Justice, and if 5 mans that give valor are essential to help more people enjoy the game, two additional, harder 5 mans should be introduced--or even upgraded, like SFK or DM. Although after running a pug in which Cho'gall's first add was killed in the dead center of the room and one tank had 3 stacks of fury for the majority of the fight, I do think a case could be made for Troll 5 mans being harder than T11 raids at present. I mean, you do still need people to stand on chains at least some of the time on JinDoh.

Originally Posted by Matik

Will make very little difference, but ok? A full ZG/ZA gives 140 VP still and is way faster.

And ZA/ZG don't drop gear that will be good for you going into Firelands unless you enjoy gimping yourself.

Originally Posted by Matik

Will make very little difference, but ok? A full ZG/ZA gives 140 VP still and is way faster.

If you just run BWD, you will get 210 VP and the chance to get some decent upgrades for your character if they are not running Firelands raids. This change is great for alts and makes running the T11 raids a viable source of VP in place of running a nights worth of Zandalari heroics, and who isn't tired of running the same 2 instances over and over again every day.

Originally Posted by balatro

meh - either way players will have to supplement with additional sources to reach their cap.

I get valor cap from Firelands and the new BH boss...