Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3

Originally Posted by Gray_Matter

I am one of these so called "casuals" and thats not what the situation is at all. I don't have time to commit to 3-4 raids a week. I have probably 1 night a week where I can commit 3-4 houts in one go and the rest of the time, I have to make do with an hour here or there. I take pride in my spec and I am gemmed right, etc. The problem is time, not some wishy washy spec switching. A lot of people don't have the time to commit. We have a life outside of WOW. Wives, kids, etc. I will be damned if I am going to waste the 1 night a week that I can raid just to have some dips..t ninja something that they probably won't even use and then leave the raid straight afterwards. Need before Greed is broken for this type of thing. It's not the end of the world in a dungeon where you can immediately queue again but we are talking about a situation where you won't be able to get loot from the same boss for a whole week. RNG and roles are bad enough with someone in greens joining a raid by using the PVP gear for the ilvl and then getting lucky on the roll.

This is THE basic excuse everyone is using. I play at a guild that consist of mainly old progress raiders, that all finished their school/university/whatever and now have jobs. Therefore we are able to only raid once a week on Sundays. We normally raid for abour 4 hours that day and are in heroics at the moment.

What I want to say is, that progressing through the normal content has nothing to do with huge time efforts, but basically with being able to play his class and to react properly. So bad players (not casual but BAD) will still struggle even in the newly introduced retard mode, since standing in the fire will hurt there aswell and having the +hit/agi gemmed priest will still not help exactly to overcome the encounters.

TL;DR: Playing properly will get you through every normal mode with very littly time needed, so stop using the excuse "I want to see the content, but can not raid 4 times a week"....bad players will still wipe in retard mode

PvE item level / PvP item level Considering the new Raid Finder, blizzard should differentiate the type of gear.

Originally Posted by aridion

This is THE basic excuse everyone is using. I play at a guild that consist of mainly old progress raiders, that all finished their school/university/whatever and now have jobs. Therefore we are able to only raid once a week on Sundays. We normally raid for abour 4 hours that day and are in heroics at the moment.

What I want to say is, that progressing through the normal content has nothing to do with huge time efforts, but basically with being able to play his class and to react properly. So bad players (not casual but BAD) will still struggle even in the newly introduced retard mode, since standing in the fire will hurt there aswell and having the +hit/agi gemmed priest will still not help exactly to overcome the encounters.

TL;DR: Playing properly will get you through every normal mode with very littly time needed, so stop using the excuse "I want to see the content, but can not raid 4 times a week"....bad players will still wipe in retard mode

Please tell me a guild that I can join that is happy to raid once a week? I know what do to and research fights before hand but cannot raid more than once a week. I battle to even get pugs because all pugs require 7/7. The point is that LFR will help if it is done right but it should not be a place for "bad" players to get geared or for people to ninja stuff for the OS. That will ruin the experience for everyone. Let us get loot from the same boss once per day and you can leave the loot rules are they presently are. Once a week and they need to be fixed.

Originally Posted by aridion

This is THE basic excuse everyone is using. I play at a guild that consist of mainly old progress raiders, that all finished their school/university/whatever and now have jobs. Therefore we are able to only raid once a week on Sundays. We normally raid for abour 4 hours that day and are in heroics at the moment.

What I want to say is, that progressing through the normal content has nothing to do with huge time efforts, but basically with being able to play his class and to react properly. So bad players (not casual but BAD) will still struggle even in the newly introduced retard mode, since standing in the fire will hurt there aswell and having the +hit/agi gemmed priest will still not help exactly to overcome the encounters.

TL;DR: Playing properly will get you through every normal mode with very littly time needed, so stop using the excuse "I want to see the content, but can not raid 4 times a week"....bad players will still wipe in retard mode

So your guild requires you to have 4 uninterrupted hours of playtime every sunday? That's not really casual. Most people like me, and most people I know, simply do not have scheduled play time, and sure as hell not the same time of the week every week. One week they might have a few uninterrupted hours of playtime on sunday, the next week they won't have any time to play, the week after maybe a few hours on wednesday evening.

So, which guild exactly would cater to such persons (like myself)? Yeah, none. Because if you have a busy life, you can't really tell if you got a few hours to raid until pretty much half an hour before. The Raid Finder sounds freaking AWESOME to me.

It shouldn't lock you out of specific-boss-loot if you don't get anything... It should limit you to getting 1 item from a boss per week.

Originally Posted by Pwnurface

Well I don't see the point in you guys complaining over the loot rules. This is not the donguen finder it's for raid same as all the other raids. These rules are same as if you were in normal raid with your guild or your server pug, if you didn't get loot off a 1st boss in your guild run don't you have to wait whole week to kill the same boss for your turn At loot on the same boss? So it's the same thing that applies here wait another week for it to reset.

But normal raids have DKP/EPGP/Consul Loot systems that organize loot distribution among raiders, so if you dont get loot on 1st week - you'll be in higher priority on next one and so on.
In case with LFR - your chances are same every week and everyone will hit "NEED" for both main of off specs just because they can (any loot is better that no loot) making it even worse.

Originally Posted by Antherios

Reasons why this is going to get hard to stand

1> PvP Gear: When you zone in, and you find out that half of the dps and half of the healers are on PvP gear, shit will happen. Healers going OOM mid combat, dps doing 10k, etc etc.

2> Finding a Raid Leader with patience: It just seems really odd for me that someone will want to go thru the whole problem of explaining fights, assigning roles, calling out directions and correcting mistakes if they dont win absolutely nothing extra. Finding good raid leaders is going to be incredible hard, and the average raid leader will be your normal guy in blues, trying crazy strats and raging about no one paying him attention.

3> Ninjaing: This will be THE issue, people rolling on MS, OS and even the third spec they dont own will be really common. Warriors rolling on agi mail, tanks needing on 2handers. This happens every day on the LFD tool, and it will happen on the LFR tool.

4> The Average Pug: Really bad players will get in the system, players that stand in fire, players that dont listen to advices, players that wear the wrong kind of armor, that gems old vanilla gems, and doenst enchant their gear. Douches pulling to wipe the raid, people breaking CCs earlier, etc etc. All this will be bread of every day in the LFR tool.

5> Managing a 25man raid without vent: People going AFK mid fight or before a pull, people disconnecting, some people pcs wont be able to handle 25mans correctly, so they will lag a lot. Not being able to actively communicate orders thru voice, will make things incredibly hard, because how will you tell your raidmates that X guy has to get out of fire, if that guy just doesnt read the chat?

So.. i foresee 2 scenarios happening

1. Blizz will make the current raid in LFR incredibly easy to absurd levels (not dying and feeling godlike even standing in fire). So free gear for everyone and 0 learning at all.
2. Blizz will make the current raid in LFR hard (not hard like normal or hardmode, but you get it), and only 1 raid every blue moon will be able to clear the whole raid without disbanding.

Hopefully blizz can sort this somehow!

I forsee the rise of using in-game built voice system however crappy it might be. If player won't comply that s/he has at least speakers/headset turned on, s/he will be kicked out of the raid.

OK, something that may be useful: Present a gear wishlist to each LFR Q'er and allow them to choose x number (say 3) of gear that they want from the run, then apply the following rules:

1) The first item he needs is assigned with the highest priority in the loot determination process. Only players that give the same priority level to that piece participate in the roll process.

2) If someone gives top priority to a tank piece while Q'ing as dps, he is automatically de-prioritized if a tank needs it as well no matter what priority he or the tank gives.

3) If a player's total ilvl drop below the requirement at any time in the raid, he is automatically removed from the raid, and the gear he won will be automatically deleted. This should remove those who put wrong gears on just to get in the raid. For those who does and keep them on all the time, allow the raid leader (or leader concil) to kick them.

4) Apply a resilience filter. If someone's resilience is too high (number TBD), he is not allowed to Q.

5) A player can't roll on a piece if he is currently equipped with a higher ilvl piece.

6) All gears become instantly soulbound so people can't use their friends to get more priority privilege than random players.

Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud

So your guild requires you to have 4 uninterrupted hours of playtime every sunday? That's not really casual. .

take for example people that do any type of team sport. They will have matches at the weekend that will take around 4 hours aswell. Not the match itself, but with driving to the stadium, warming up, the actual match, dressing, driving home and so on, it will take around 4 hours. And they do it every weekend (at least during the season) and at a more or less fixed time

So where is the difference between someone playing in a hobby league and someone having a scheduled raid at the weekend?

And they guy training once a week and having his match at the weekend would consider himself "casual" by all means

I don't understand all of the QQ over the loot rules. Raids (normal, heroic, and the new LFR) do not let you have more than one opprotunity to get loot now. Any raid will lock you out to a boss whether you win or lose the roll as it is now. Why would you think that you would be able to have multiple chances a week to get loot from a boss when no raid works that way? Some people have said they want to have more than one chance to get loot if they lose a roll. If Blizzard did this, hard core raiders would be walking around in full sets by the end of the first week of 4.3. I think that many of you are looking at the loot rules like dungeon, but it is still a raid. Raids only allow you one chance per week per boss to get loot. It shouldn't matter whether the raid is nomal, heroic, or LFR.Smile it is a game!

i don't get the "1 loot per boss" whine.. In a normal or heroic raid, if the item i want doesn't drop, i'll have to wait for a week to try again my luck, so let the LFR be the same!! what's wrong with it? i guess it's just whine for the sake of whining

Originally Posted by Canca

My only concern is the raid of 10-20 guildies that join, need roll on everything and then trade the loot among themselves. Hopefully there will be something in place to help stop that.

I was thinking just the same...I foresee some terrible experiences already

O, Raid Finder is 25 man only? Nevermind then.

Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it’s over? A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system. Rest of day please :-D

A GM confirmed today, players with pvp gear, low level items, no enchants or gems will be able to join the raid and everyone else will have to carry them. Time to kill alts and raid only with guilds.

Worst idea from Blizz...ever. Ever since they made their customer model all about everyone seeing all of the content, they have made this game ridiculous. It's no wonder they are leaking subscriptions like the Titanic. But, it doesn't matter to them because they have their next infusion of cash coming in Diablo 3, even though everyone in the beta says that it is in terrible shape. People will still buy it out of "loyalty".

It seems like these issues are pretty easy to fix:

1. Have a PVE ilvl for PVP gear that subtracts the point budget for the resiliance and extra stamina (for example, a 365 level PVP piece might have a PVE ilvl of 340 or something).

2. Have need/greed/mainspec. Mainspec rolls are higher than need, but can only be used by tanks on tank gear or healers on healer gear.

3. Have some kind of rating system, where you say how good the leader was at the end of each boss. Each leader would have a ranking from each player that would change over time - so if you ranked somebody 1/10 10 times and 10/10 10 times, they would get a 5/10 from you but it would only count once against their total score. The LFR tool would pick the highest ranked leader, and give them some kind of extra reward at the end of each wing (like double valor points, maybe - or a crafting orb if they got a high enough ranking).

I am looking forward to it - my guild died, and my schedule will let me raid just a few hours a week, but I never know when that will be. I'm not joining a new guild because I don't think I could meet guild obligations, and this will let me raid on a more flexible schedule.

I wanna see this raid killing a boss.... gonna be so much fun... so much... gonna queue and make a movie just because f that... GJ Blizz Fun times are comming..

Being able to queue in big groups, cooldown on votekicks - Yeah no one will be trolling raid finder groups at all.

We have a life outside of WOW. Wives, kids, etc. I will be damned if I am going to waste the 1 night a week that I can raid just to have some dips..t ninja something that they probably won't even use and then leave the raid straight afterwards

casuals playing the life card as a excuse of why there bad.that card has been overused,please find another excuse as to why your bad