Mists of Pandaria Challenge Mode Dungeons, Class Transmogrification List

Lol easier heroics. Beyond fisher price now. What a joke this game has become to its previous state. Tragic.

Originally Posted by Tripl

I'm missing something Chaud, and you damn well know what it is...What is the top-list for Ranged weapon transmo's for hunters?!

Back where they belong, as part of the weapons list linked to in the OP!

Not looking forward to those. I want hard heroics like in TBC but not dungeons on time where i have to rush and call it a day when we do a wrong pull.I wanna do a challenging runbut without watching on the clock all the time.

Heroic mode dungeons will not be as difficult as they were in Cataclysm, instead they will be similar to the Wrath of the Lich King level difficulty. It's about damn time! Looks like they're finally giving up on favoring elitist assholes who make up the minority of the player base. Beginning of Cataclysm was a failiure, normal players couldn't even do the damn heroic dungeons not to mention raids since they were so difficult. Then you people wonder why so many players quitted playing.. Looks like Mist of Pandaria is going to give people what they want! No more pampering hardcore players! Epics to the people lol!

a few things on my mind about this...

1: wrath heroics were pretty hard at first, we just caught up to them really really fast
2: when people talk about "o, they're 15-20 min now in cata", well that's because of nerfs and overgearing. in the beginning it was not unusual for heroics to last 2 hrs+
3: a lot of the issue in the beginning of cata was pugs where players came in with the wrath mindset, ie stand in fire, ignore mechanics, and then rage at the healer (when healers were a LOT less powerful) for not healing stupid

as far as pugs go, early cata difficulty was fail. might be acceptable for a coordinated group, but with all the mouthbreathers in LFG? no way

Originally Posted by chaud

We will hear more about Mists of Pandaria in the upcoming weeks

Not bloody likely if Blizzard don't pull their head in and stop coasting on yearlong subscription commitments.

wrath heroics were pretty hard at first, we just caught up to them really really fast

No they really weren't... I was there from day 1, 90% of the fights were tank and spank. The ONLY difficult fight I remember was Loken from Heroic Halls of Lightning, nearly everything else was trivial.

EDIT: And heroic Occulus was a bitch as well, but that was easily solved by completely avoiding it. And it was difficult for all the wrong reasons.

How could heroics become easier then they already are?No offense or anything, but they might as well just give us the gear for free.

Originally Posted by Desdonde

No they really weren't... I was there from day 1, 90% of the fights were tank and spank. The ONLY difficult fight I remember was Loken from Heroic Halls of Lightning, nearly everything else was trivial.

EDIT: And heroic Occulus was a bitch as well, but that was easily solved by completely avoiding it. And it was difficult for all the wrong reasons.

Dude every fight from Vanilla to Wrath was tank and spank, in dungeons mostly but raids for the most part too. That's not a good way to judge them. I CLEARLY remember people shaking in fear at doing some of the Wrath heroics. Some were easier than others like the Nexus, but I clearly remember several that caused groups to instantly quit (like Halls of Reflection.)

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May I request that you guys move that "wrath difficulty" bullet to the bottom of the list. 90% of the readers seem to have read that and stopped reading. T_T And now instead of a friendly discussion all I can read is endless QQing.

Originally Posted by Giise

Why Wotlk Diificulties

Heroics are the first real step in the progression chain so they're supposed to be fairly easy and even the fabled BC super-heroics were only ever tough when you ran them with random shitters. When they made heroics medium-hard in the past then organised guild groups still breezed through them but anyone who couldn't guarantee to get in a guild run was at the mercy of terrible LFD groups.

Under the proposed system heroics will not be a crapshoot for the 'ok to good' players who rely on LFD and challenge modes might be an interesting way to make them relevant and interesting beyond the first fortnight of release. They might well fuck up the implementation but I actually like the approach.

Challenge modes won't make it to release, I'm calling it now.

Makes me sad that they're giving up on heroics. Although they took time, I had a ridiculous amount of fun doing the initial dungeons in the first few months of Cata. And that was through pugs. If you got someone bad at running them then you booted and waited until someone competant enough to not stand in the fire came along. The three new heroics bore the crap out of me since half the fights are just tank and spanks. I understand that not everyone had an hour or two to run around Vortex Pinicle or Throne of the Tides, but if you spent that long running a dungeon without kicking the weak links then I have no pity for you. I don't understand why they can't have nomal versions just award a small amount of valor points and keep Heroics at the same level they were in 4.0 to keep everyone happy. Why bother calling it a heroic if you can piss your way through it in 15 minutes.

Originally Posted by VileGenesis

And I wonder why WoW is going down hill...

How hard is it to grasp really?

You beat it on gold level, then you get a debuff, that stacks, to make it harder, so that you got something to actually beat as well, sure eventually people will hit a cap, but yeah.


The stacking debuff is there to raise the bar even further, above the 3 standard medal levels, its not exactly rocket science to piece it together.

And tbh, things like this change to dungeons and talents and what not, might be the only thing making me return to WoW, im sick of getting demands just to progress, I mean, sure, you need to be able to complete it, but people dont want to complete content, they want to freaking zergrush through it, something you cant do if you arent geared, so for new players, guess what, they still exist, there is nothing they can do. However, with the lowering of the difficulty bar, people might stop kicking people from heroics and instead just let the poor people get that shiny new piece of gear and points that actually means progression to them.

The stupidity in the MMO community of late is staggering, reading comprehension is all but tossed out the window, isnt it?

And no, Im not a native speaker, so I bet there are tons of grammatical errors in my text, before anyone cares to point that bit of obvious info out.

The stacking debuff makes no sense because of a very simple reason. Leaderboards.

Since gear in challenge modes will be normalized, the only determining factor will be how fast can you complete the dungeon. And adding a stacking debuff will obviously make the dungeon run take longer. So, in order to get the shortest time, you'd have to go all out on the first run when you don't have the debuff, or have a leaderboard for each debuff stage and an option to choose any of the difficulty modes, which is completely unnecessary.

So yeah. Stacking debuff. Sense. Makes none.

Edit: I actually never noticed before about the stacking debuff, so this is news to me, I apologise for my rudeness. But my point still stands, the stacking debuff would mess up leaderboards too much, unless it never dissipates and Leaderboards activate after you've reached the maximum debuff stack.

Challenge mode!! LOL!! Fail!! some glad i quit this game, its turning into easy mode. 7 years of watching and playing a game going downhill is enough for me.

Originally Posted by Thedoc23

Makes me sad that they're giving up on heroics. Although they took time, I had a ridiculous amount of fun doing the initial dungeons in the first few months of Cata. And that was through pugs. If you got someone bad at running them then you booted and waited until someone competant enough to not stand in the fire came along. The three new heroics bore the crap out of me since half the fights are just tank and spanks. I understand that not everyone had an hour or two to run around Vortex Pinicle or Throne of the Tides, but if you spent that long running a dungeon without kicking the weak links then I have no pity for you. I don't understand why they can't have nomal versions just award a small amount of valor points and keep Heroics at the same level they were in 4.0 to keep everyone happy. Why bother calling it a heroic if you can piss your way through it in 15 minutes.

I completely agree with this. First 2-3 months of Cataclysm were pure gold, nothing during Wotlk came even close to this (Well, maybe Ulduar...). It's really sad if they've really given up with that type of content and just slap a "challenge" mode to replace it.
It seems that people with a solid 10/25 man guild keep getting less and less content every patch.

Funnily enough, I can already predict how challenge modes will go.

Week one, every man and his dog will try them. Week two, 99.9% of the "community" will say "fuck this" and hop back on the gear treadmill.

Six months in, the development team will hold a round table where they look at the metrics of player usage, they will freak out and their subsequent content patch will be tailored around emotionally blackmailing the playerbase into running Challenge Mode dungeons daily for incentives that are too good to ignore.

Thusly, once more bribery will be used to mask a failed feature players don't really want to do just for the sake of doing.

How about just making the actual dungeons challenge? Genius blizzard arent I?

Originally Posted by chaud

We will hear more about Mists of Pandaria in the upcoming weeks

We will, eh? What do you know that we don't, I wonder?

Originally Posted by randomdonk

How about just making the actual dungeons challenge? Genius blizzard arent I?

This guy gets it. Now that we have three difficulties for raiding, why not do the same thing for dungeons?

Normal: the levelling dungeons. The stuff you go through before level cap.

Dungeon Finder: similar to "Raid Finder" difficulty. Easy mechanics for PUGs and content that can be quickly farmed for weekly VP.

Heroic: like it used to be in TBC. Mechanar, Steamvaults, Magister's Terrace... stuff you can't just faceroll. CC, interrupts, coordination are all needed! Think similar to the difficulty between normal/raid finder/ heroic raids.

Originally Posted by Xebu

Challenge modes won't make it to release, I'm calling it now.

dont care if they make it to release or not

i wont be using it since i got no intrest in xmog watsoever

and to any1 thats says justdont do it stop qqing

i wont and i never started

Originally Posted by Heppu

I completely agree with this. First 2-3 months of Cataclysm were pure gold, nothing during Wotlk came even close to this (Well, maybe Ulduar...). It's really sad if they've really given up with that type of content and just slap a "challenge" mode to replace it.
It seems that people with a solid 10/25 man guild keep getting less and less content every patch.

Maybe it's because they realized that most players aren't in solid 10/25 guilds, and yet a disproportionate amount of every patch is content for these people. So blizz decided to devote development time to cover a larger group of their players