Dragon Soul Difficulty Change - Power of the Aspects to 10%

Bring on the nerfs! If I really cared that much about being 8/8H before the nerf I'd raid 10 mans.

i loled man its gonna be just like the end of wrath all over

Originally Posted by Irishman

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Don’t need the help of the Dragon Aspects? The spell can be disabled by talking to Lord Afrasastrasz at the beginning of Dragon Soul.

Typical Blizzard coercion disguised as a choice. Imagine going to a restaurant ordering a 3 course meal, and the restaurant has an offer whereby you get the last course free, or you can alternatively choose to buy it; only an idiot would do the latter, and that's what we're seeing here folks.

why are you trying to make up stuff? no one lures you onto the dark path of +10% buffs or something. you chose for yourself (and your friends) if you want to kill stuff like it was intended for the hardcore of the hardcore, or you chose to accept you are NOT that hardcore and accept the help offered. but it's really your choice. don't act as if something was taken away from you.

because it's totally fucking cool that blizzard implemented that option, and not just hard-nurfed everything. i love them for that.

Nope i dont have cleared DS and still HATE the nerf. I didnt cleared it because i just dont have the time to raid every week. But does that mean i want to get an easy kill on the bosses?

No i dont...for me its a fun killer. When i have a tough time with a Boss (no matter were) and have being whiping a lot and then finally kill it, im happy because i know we did better then before. We suceeded because we "worked" for it. But if im whiping on a boss a lot and then comes a 5 or 10% or later even 35% nerf then i dont feel any kind of satisfaction because I kow its was not that we got better, not because we worked for it, it was because Blizz decided that we should have an easy kill.

Dont tell me you can turn it off...no one will turn it off well guess what, im not the only person in my 10 man raid. Or can i choose just for me to turn it off? You allways have a few in your group who just wants some easy and fast kills. Disabling is just no option even if you have a way to do so. Whoever is saying so must be playing a different game...

Dont tell me you can turn it off...no one will turn it off well guess what, im not the only person in my 10 man raid.

That tells me you are admitting that this silly complaining is done by a super minority who want a challenge, but not really you see, and if its nerfed then they dont want to turn it off because...well..eh. You wrote the word "work" several times in your post, this is a videogame, i cannot believe we still have MMO players who believe otherwise. Everquest really had a profound effect on so many of you, even the ones who never played that game. If people within the game community does not care about your and my achievements then who does care? There is no other gaming community out there, not even the 12 year old Xbox Live crowd that eats CoD and Halo for breakfast that is as silly as the WoW community is, even those "KIIIDZZ" dont care what someone else does or how they play their game, yet WoW players are down right obsessed what some other guy, on another server does, who he kills and what he wears. Ive seen types like this, and it seems that a mental block is a problem here, you only feel accomplished if *YOU* and nobody else (or very few) do it. Its not even about challanges its about stroking that epeen and standing around Stormwind/Orgrimmar in hopes that someone will notice how much time you wasted. This will fall on deaf ears, because people will talk about "game design man!" and how things should be. Blizzard listened to your kind, and lost 2 million subs with Cata, they learned their lesson the hard way.

Originally Posted by butthe4d

Nope i dont have cleared DS and still HATE the nerf. I didnt cleared it because i just dont have the time to raid every week. But does that mean i want to get an easy kill on the bosses?

No i dont...for me its a fun killer. When i have a tough time with a Boss (no matter were) and have being whiping a lot and then finally kill it, im happy because i know we did better then before. We suceeded because we "worked" for it. But if im whiping on a boss a lot and then comes a 5 or 10% or later even 35% nerf then i dont feel any kind of satisfaction because I kow its was not that we got better, not because we worked for it, it was because Blizz decided that we should have an easy kill.

Dont tell me you can turn it off...no one will turn it off well guess what, im not the only person in my 10 man raid. Or can i choose just for me to turn it off? You allways have a few in your group who just wants some easy and fast kills. Disabling is just no option even if you have a way to do so. Whoever is saying so must be playing a different game...

If you are as casual as you say you are then dont complain about other people not turning it off. Have an issue with the raid you are in that leaves it on? Guess what? Leave it and find another one. YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the minority in this entire so called debate. Get over it. The nerf and all future nerfs to DS have been told to the player base since they first were thumbing around the idea of 5% increment nerfs to DS. No need to keep complaining when they tack on another 5% just to read about how you were crying about something you have NO control over.

"We hope you continue to enjoy Dragon Soul, and that these changes encourage you to attempt a higher difficulty"Eh, aren't these changes doing the exact opposite?

Yay. A 10% nerf! That means Eleventh Hour will finally be able to kill Madness in Normal 10-man. Bahahahahahaha

Originally Posted by Zechs-cenarius

If you are as casual as you say you are then dont complain about other people not turning it off. Have an issue with the raid you are in that leaves it on? Guess what? Leave it and find another one. YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the minority in this entire so called debate. Get over it. The nerf and all future nerfs to DS have been told to the player base since they first were thumbing around the idea of 5% increment nerfs to DS. No need to keep complaining when they tack on another 5% just to read about how you were crying about something you have NO control over.

I wouldnt be so sure if people like me realy minority...i would guess its more 50-50 and this is in my opinion one of the reasons why more and more people quit.

The game doesnt have much challenges left. You log on wednesday, play tol barad, get arena points, goes lfr MAYBE if you realy can handle the darkside of humanity, ok 3 hours passed done for the week(i spread that over 2 evenings). Yeah lets raid the ONLY PVE challenge the game offers and now nope no challenge left.

Even if youre right and im the minority, people like you can do lfr as much as you want. You can get your little epics(wich have no worth at all, the worth lies in the way of getting it not in the itemlevel) and see all the content. I think its a great solution for people like you. Thats the reason it got implemented.

I just fail to see the reason to nerf normal and hard modes.

Originally Posted by Marooned

No, these nerfs are not for us. We've started raiding since like 3 weeks and doing 1 night raiding per week. We have progressed 6/8 by now, and we want the 2 remaining bosses still be a small challenge for our casual group. You don't get it, we are having fun while doing balanced encounters rather than having the content finished without any fun. So this is probably for those who have finished all heroic modes and just want to have easier time farming.

One way or another, they won't be. Warmaster is the hardest fight on normal mode.

Originally Posted by Kazlehoff

Um

T11 was, at current content gear levels, one of the harder tier contents blizzard has ever done bro

the only reason it was cleared quick like it was, is there wasnt any stupid gating mechanics like ICC and Sunwell had.
i'll agree with you, in part, for Firelands.

Was refuting a post made by another poster that TRION Worlds (aka RIFT) had non-nerfed content and well balanced PvE, which is what my comments were directed at. I loved T11/T12 in WoW, with T12 being the weaker of the two in terms of good balancing. T11 was IMHO the best tier to date.

BTW if your REALLY Fasc, the Druid, then hello and thanks for the Theroycrafting and stuff for the druid community.

'Tis me and you are welcome, plan on jumping back in full swing for MoP Alpha/Beta.

Originally Posted by mvallas

So much for "We may not do this every month if it proves necessary". The timing is just a bit too... obvious. :PI'm finally convinced that there's a "spin doctor" on call for the Blizzard forums whenever QQ erupts. He/she just flat out twists and fabricates things JUST to keep the calm on the forums and they don't actually follow through on them....I still FIRMLY believe the whole Alliance/Horde war focus in Pandaria is also nothing but "Spin" as well about an expansion primarily focusing on Pandaren, Pandaria and what effect we have on THEM (not us). :P

Apparently it was necessary.
I have feeling they review it once per month and if they feel they need to raise the debuff. If in March they feel enough people down Madness, they'll not raise it for April. But if the numbers stagnate to much in April, they'll raise it again for May.
That is how I think it works.

Quit crying about it. We all knew this was coming and for some of us, thank you very much, this is a help. My guild hasn't be able to progress that much due to problems in real life we have been stumbling upon and two of our best raid members leaving to a different realm. So yes, 10% - bring it on, it doesn't hurt anyone and if you are butthurt about it, then go and turn it off, spend weeks wiping on same crap if you wish for it. Right now, I'm at the point where I just want to kill the damn heroic content, doesnt matter how and which kind of nerf.

Originally Posted by butthe4d

Even if youre right and im the minority, people like you can do lfr as much as you want. You can get your little epics(wich have no worth at all, the worth lies in the way of getting it not in the itemlevel) and see all the content. I think its a great solution for people like you. Thats the reason it got implemented.

I just fail to see the reason to nerf normal and hard modes.

LFR is primarily there for the same reason LFG exists, for people to participate in group activities without having to have a premade group to participate with. Bear in mind this has nothing to do with difficulty tuning on Normal/Heroic, which is the fallacy often made in these threads.

Re-tuning Normal/Heroic is entirely different.

A) They've always nerfed content to open it up a bit more, make the hard stuff slightly less hard so more people give it a shot. It isn't just to see it, it is to entice you to complete it or keep attempting to complete it.

B) Some nerfs just need to happen for a smoother difficulty curve. See Yor'sahj and Spine nerfs. These are for problems that arise in basic mechanics or stop-gaps that shouldn't exist or whatever. Most people (most) don't have issues with these nerfs and balance changes.

C) As previously stated, there is a unique gearing problem this tier involving Dragonwrath, 4pT13, and shared boss loot trinkets. These items constitute exceptional gains in limited slots, surpassing even several higher ilvl upgrades in other slots combined. Some raids are lucky enough to get a good spread of these things, others (like my own) have good tier bonuses but next to no trinkets, even LFR ones. The nerfs have come sooner rather than later because of this problem and the fact that in 2 more months, my guild could STILL be waiting on its first Heroic Cunning/Fetish and only be rocking a single Heroic Vial (assuming we keep that individual).

Originally Posted by Realism

Fun fact...the ICC buff also gave your healers an additional 30% healing in the scenario you describe.

Which is directly countered by the fact that taking less damage also requires less healing.

Did you really have to make an account to say something as silly as that?

Originally Posted by Fasc

LFR is primarily there for the same reason LFG exists, for people to participate in group activities without having to have a premade group to participate with. Bear in mind this has nothing to do with difficulty tuning on Normal/Heroic, which is the fallacy often made in these threads.

Re-tuning Normal/Heroic is entirely different.

A) They've always nerfed content to open it up a bit more, make the hard stuff slightly less hard so more people give it a shot. It isn't just to see it, it is to entice you to complete it or keep attempting to complete it.

B) Some nerfs just need to happen for a smoother difficulty curve. See Yor'sahj and Spine nerfs. These are for problems that arise in basic mechanics or stop-gaps that shouldn't exist or whatever. Most people (most) don't have issues with these nerfs and balance changes.

C) As previously stated, there is a unique gearing problem this tier involving Dragonwrath, 4pT13, and shared boss loot trinkets. These items constitute exceptional gains in limited slots, surpassing even several higher ilvl upgrades in other slots combined. Some raids are lucky enough to get a good spread of these things, others (like my own) have good tier bonuses but next to no trinkets, even LFR ones. The nerfs have come sooner rather than later because of this problem and the fact that in 2 more months, my guild could STILL be waiting on its first Heroic Cunning/Fetish and only be rocking a single Heroic Vial (assuming we keep that individual).

A) There is a difference at adjusting encounter a bit and throwing a 5,10,20,25,35% debuff on all mobs...

B) see A

C) You dont realy want to tell me now that you have to slot legendary casters and rogues to beat spine on normal mode? 4T Bonus is more then enough for any class to manage the fight.And Heroic, yeah its there for a challenge. You can gear up easily. Even our small non progress guild took 4 bosses on the first DS run without debuff. It wasnt that hard to begin with and its the last raid of the expansion and its the easiest by far even without buff.

Originally Posted by Szemere

Which is directly countered by the fact that taking less damage also requires less healing.

Did you really have to make an account to say something as silly as that?

The differences between the two forms of nerfs are exceptionally negligible at 5% and 10%, so why this is even being argued is beyond me. Yes DS is a true 5% nerf whereas the ICC 5% buff was slightly less than that in terms of needed output before and after to meet minimums, but honestly in terms of reality, player performance, RNG, and the like, the difference is almost utterly swallowed in the noise and not worth discussing.

This is fine with me and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. My guild downed Ultraxion in 10 man normal last night for the first time and we just barely beat the enrage timer. I think it had 2 seconds left. The attempt before that he enraged at about 1% health left.

This change is awesome. There have been raid-wide nerfs to dungeons and raids since what, Burning Crusade? Get the fuck over it already. It's going to happen because they want people to enjoy it.

If you really had a reason to swing your dick around this thread, you'd link your Armory with your pre-nerf Heroic kills so we can all /applaud you for the next 3 months any of this shit even matters.

Originally Posted by Nagassh

"We hope you continue to enjoy Dragon Soul, and that these changes encourage you to attempt a higher difficulty"Eh, aren't these changes doing the exact opposite?

Absolutely not, it may get more people in to the Heroic modes that they would never have seen otherwise.