MMO-Champion - Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
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Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We recently released an update to the Mists of Pandaria talent tree. Since the expansion is still in development, these updates represent a snapshot of where we are at any given moment and not a final design where we step back and say “Ladies and gentlemen, we have achieved perfection. Let us not change a thing.” If you’ve been playing the game for a while, you’ve probably realized by now that we never think we’ll hit perfection, and we probably never will.

One design that we haven’t focused on much yet is the plan for various group buffs and debuffs. Some specs have their buffs in place and some do not. Rather than trying to describe each omission, we thought we’d just dump the whole design on you here. As with the rest of the expansion’s systems, we’re not even in beta yet, so there’s plenty of time for things to change.

First, some underlying design goals, so you might understand where we’re coming from. Our main goals for group buffs are:


  • Make you feel more powerful when grouped with other players.
  • Give you lots of freedom to invite whom you want. This gets to be a problem when there are too many mandatory buffs spread out among too many specs. . .
  • …But not offer too many incentives to class stack. If you can achieve every buff with, say, only three players, then there might be a tendency to fill all of the other slots with whoever is best for a particular situation. Some class stacking is inevitable at the cutting-edge level, but to some extent, the players on the cutting edge of raiding enjoy extreme min-maxing. For the rest of us, we try to make sure you can finish all of the encounters without feeling like you need a huge roster of folks waiting in the wings for their one fight.
  • We tend to be more generous to DPS specs, since groups -- especially raids -- already have ample reasons to bring tanks and healers.
  • We generally don’t want a DPS spec to have to switch to a different spec in the same role just to bring a different buff. An example would be a Combat rogue who has to go Assassination just for a buff. In our experience, players are less likely to switch from a ranged to a melee DPS spec just for a buff, so DPS shaman and DPS druids might bring different buffs.

And finally some notes on the categories below:


  • The list only includes what we consider “traditional” buffs, such as Prayer of Fortitude. It doesn’t include utility like being great at snaring, battle rez, knock backs, high DPS while moving, and other mechanics. Those ultimately all factor into a raid or Battleground comp as well.
  • The matrix is a little more complex than it appears. A paladin, for example, can only offer one Blessing at a time, while a warrior can only do one shout at a time. You can’t assume one character can cover every buff or debuff listed below at the same time.
  • Some of these are active (you must cast them, like Prayer of Fortitude) while others are passive. Note that totems no longer bring passive buffs as a rule.
  • You’ll see several categories consolidated or gone. Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves. Magical resistance we just removed from the game, though there are some abilities that provide magical damage reduction.
  • We are still likely to use the design that hunters, especially Beastmaster hunters, can fill in for missing buffs or debuffs by using certain pets.

As always, we’d love to get your feedback on this design.

Buffs

Stats
Effect: +5% Strength, Agility, and Intellect
Example: Blessing of Kings
Brought by: Any druid, any monk, any paladin

Stamina
Effect: +10% Stamina
Example: Power Word: Fortitude
Brought by: Any priest, any warlock, any warrior

Attack Power
Effect: +10% melee and ranged attack power (which will be the same value again)
Example: Battle Shout
Brought by: Any death knight, any hunter, any warrior

Spell Power
Effect: +10% spell power (there will no longer be a 6% version)
Example: Arcane Brilliance
Brought by: Any mage, any shaman, any warlock

Haste
Effect: +10% melee and ranged haste
Example: Improved Icy Talons
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, any rogue, Enhancement shaman

Spell Haste
Effect: +5% spell haste
Example: Moonkin Aura
Brought by: Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman

Critical Strike
Effect: +5% ranged, melee, and spell critical chance
Example: Leader of the Pack
Brought by: Guardian and Feral druids, any hunter, any mage

Mastery
Effect: +5 mastery
Example: This is a new category
Brought by: Windwalker monks, any paladin, any shaman

Debuffs

Weakened Armor
Effect: -12% armor
Example: Sunder Armor
Brought by: Any druid, any rogue, any warrior

Physical Vulnerability
Effect: +4% physical damage taken
Example: Brittle Bones
Brought by: Frost and Unholy death knights, Retribution paladins, Arms and Fury warriors

Magic Vulnerability
Effect: +8% spell damage taken
Example: Curse of the Elements
Brought by: Any rogue, any warlock

Weakened Blows
Effect: -10% physical damage done
Example: Previously Demoralizing Shout; now Thunder Clap
Brought by: Blood death knight, Feral and Guardian druid, Brewmaster monk, Protection or Retribution paladin, any warrior (any tank)

Slow Casting

Effect: -30% casting speed
Example: Mind-numbing Poison
Brought by: Any death knight, any rogue, any warlock

Mortal Wounds
Effect: -25% healing received
Example: Mortal Strike
Brought by: Arms or Fury warrior, any rogue, any hunter

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He was unsuccessful in convincing the rest of the class team to change Arms warrior mastery to decreased falling damage taken.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design started by chaud View original post
Comments 231 Comments
  1. Windfury's Avatar
    Man I remember back in the day rolling my Shaman main because I wanted to play a utility/buffing class. Now they're bringing less buffs/debuffs than Rogues. Would be nice to get a class change option for people who are stuck with toons that don't even slightly resemble the toon they rolled anymore.
  1. dope_danny's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlika View Post
    Man I remember back in the day rolling my Shaman main because I wanted to play a utility/buffing class. Now they're bringing less buffs/debuffs than Rogues. Would be nice to get a class change option for people who are stuck with toons that don't even slightly resemble the toon they rolled anymore.
    happened to me in wrath, my ret pally had the same character model but little els ei played him for. Rolled an unholy dk and never looked back.
  1. Prag's Avatar
    Sup, I'm on this fan site making fun of the fan boys for being fans on a fan site.*Also, I feel like some classes got... screwed. Still in Alpha though, so hopefully feedback changes this!
  1. esoterickk's Avatar
    Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He was unsuccessful in convincing the rest of the class team to change Arms warrior mastery to decreased falling damage taken.
    This gave me a good chuckle at least.
  1. Xomniuri's Avatar
    < On Topic > I have the same concerns as many other people, some classes currently have to sacrifice quite alot more dps time to apply their debuffs/buffs
    rogues with armour reduction is probably the most worst off currently

    I hope that this has been taken into account and the buffs have a long duration atleast more than 5mins, and the debuffs if they do not have a long duration atleast make them apply and refresh their duration with a staple ability, eg colossus smash with sunder or mortal strike for the reduced healing, shadow bolt/incinerate with 5% crit.

    I'm a bit annoyed at 5% spell haste only being available from those classes, druids have 4 specs shamans have 3 and priests have 3, the odds of actually having a caster spec for those classes can be very small.
    Although i seen the idea behind melee bringing melee buffs and casters bringing caster buffs, it kind of fails when certain class specs still bring more buffs/debuffs than other classes where their buffs/debuff apply to all their specs.

    IMO just give it up and make the buffs apply to all specs of that class, because your still limiting which classes can come with what spec

    < Off Topic Rant > To the 10man haters shut up about no incentive to run 25man raids, they are immensely harder to maintain and run, i prefer my current 10man guild to all of the old 25man and 40man guilds i've been in over the years. There's no need for dkp there's only 11 of us, which means no need for a website or someone to make extra time to keep it updated, everybody is much closer so it heavily reduces people leaving or having guild factions splinter off, and there's only a GM and 1 Officer, and almost every decision is made collectively so people are rarely upset. So at the end of the day which do you prefer spending time raiding or dealing with guild drama and out of raid tasks?
  1. Marooned's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Xomniuri View Post
    < On Topic > I have the same concerns as many other people, some classes currently have to sacrifice quite alot more dps time to apply their debuffs/buffs rogues with armour reduction is probably the most worst off currently I hope that this has been taken into account and the buffs have a long duration atleast more than 5mins, and the debuffs if they do not have a long duration atleast make them apply and refresh their duration with a staple ability, eg colossus smash with sunder or mortal strike for the reduced healing, shadow bolt/incinerate with 5% crit. I'm a bit annoyed at 5% spell haste only being available from those classes, druids have 4 specs shamans have 3 and priests have 3, the odds of actually having a caster spec for those classes can be very small. Although i seen the idea behind melee bringing melee buffs and casters bringing caster buffs, it kind of fails when certain class specs still bring most buffs/debuffs than other classes where their buffs/debuff apply to all their specs. IMO just give it up and make the buffs apply to all specs of that class, because your still limiting which classes can come with what spec < Off Topic Rant > To the 10man haters shut up about no incentive to run 25man raids, they are immensely harder to maintain and run, i prefer my current 10man guild to all of the old 25man and 40man guilds i've been in over the years. There's no need for dkp there's only 11 of us, which means no need for a website or someone to make extra time to keep it updated, everybody is much closer so it heavily reduces people leaving or having guild factions splinter off, and there's only a GM and 1 Officer, and almost every decision is made collectively so people are rarely upset. So at the end of the day which do you prefer spending time raiding or dealing with guild drama and out of raid tasks?
    Please go and post this on official forums also, i really like this to be heard by bliz
  1. MuskiER's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mudkipzz View Post
    do deathknights really need slow casting debuff?
    *They already have 30% slow casting debuff, its called Necrotic strike. Look it up.
  1. Tybudd33's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Critical Strike Effect: +5% ranged, melee, and spell critical chance Example: Leader of the Pack Brought by: Guardian and Feral druids, any hunter, any mage
    Warriors got screwed on this one (fury)as far as the hunters is this because any hunter can use a Wolf, or Hunters will have this as a buff from the toon themselves?
  1. Uselessrouge's Avatar
    rogue melee haste and spellpower debuff... win
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Taking away the spell haste buff from resto shamans is ridiculous, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Blizzard did say that buff totems were going bye-bye. *sigh*

    I like my passive totems, not a completely CD-oriented totem system (I get enough of the CD system via my enhance spec as it is).
  1. Windfury's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    happened to me in wrath, my ret pally had the same character model but little els ei played him for. Rolled an unholy dk and never looked back.
    After 7 years and more time /played than I'm willing to admit to I can't bring myself to reroll. I'll never have the time to make a toon half as good as my shaman again. I'll quit first tbh. But I'd be all over a class change if it were offered, even paid.
  1. forseth's Avatar
    Wow way to go, if this stays like this elemental is completly dead
  1. Prag's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by forseth View Post
    Wow way to go, if this stays like this elemental is completly dead
    ....

    I don't think you've been following Shaman MoP changes.*
  1. Bombkirby's Avatar
    Guys! Less QQ more... going to the forums to give feedback! They said they want to hear feedback, so lets go there and give 'em what they want. A lot of you listed some legit concerns that should be heard. So lets get going and post some feedback!
  1. Skutch's Avatar
    A group mastery buff was needed, some of the debuffs seem stronger than they should be or are just based on PVE.
  1. Saaria's Avatar
    the enhance shaman that goes melee for a reason.. loses its AP buff... amazing..
  1. Manu9's Avatar
    Rogues are being loved, while Enhancement lost it's Ap buff.
  1. davep's Avatar
    %5 stats: 10 specs
    Stamina: 9 specs
    10% AP: 9 specs
    10% SP: 9 specs
    10% Melee Haste: 6 specs
    10% Spell Haste: 3 specs
    5% Crit: 8 specs
    5 Mastery: 7 specs
    -12% armor: 10 specs
    +4% phys dmg done: 5 specs
    +8% spell dmg done: 6 specs
    -10% phys dmg taken: 9 specs
    -30% casting speed: 9 specs
    -25% healing received: 8 specs

    The balance of buffs/debuffs to specs needs to be fixed. I think minimum 6 specs would be good since that's 1 more then half a 10man, so they'd need to fix 10% Spell Haste and +4% phys dmg done.
  1. This name sucks's Avatar
    Why not just totally removes buffs/debuffs at this point, in cata the only thing anyone really give a shit about was 10% spell power because our locks only ever played demo on baleroc.But REMOVING DARK INTENT IS THE SINGLE GREATEST CHANGE THEY HAVE EVER DONE, EVER
  1. Flaks's Avatar
    I realize the list might not be final and those are only examples but...warriors no longer bring 5% crit through rampage...?

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