Mists of Pandaria Beta - Build 16048

Can they nerf hunters anymore.. exactly what bloody game are they playing...

Originally Posted by Milkshake86

Blood DK's were doing near 55k+ as of 5.0.4, clearly needed a buff to DS.

YEah DS was actually hitting quite low, and the high dps seems to be coming from HS and BB, and a buggy vengeance

Originally Posted by Nag

Can they nerf hunters anymore.. exactly what bloody game are they playing...

With every build I sit here and hope the sims are as inaccurate for hunters as people have said. Maybe that will justify these nerfs

Originally Posted by Fixup

YEah DS was actually hitting quite low, and the high dps seems to be coming from HS and BB, and a buggy vengeance

^^ pre patch death strike was a spam spell, hit for 80 - 90k in my crap gear, now it has a stacking mechanic (More damage at higher stacks) i do about 20k crit damage death strikes with full stacks.

Originally Posted by Nag

Can they nerf hunters anymore.. exactly what bloody game are they playing...

I'm not quite sure this is a nerf though, I'd say it's just relocation of the damage. They want them to do more direct damage instead of damage on dots, meaning it was probably not bursty enough in PvP.

Originally Posted by Nag

FFS can they nerf hunters into the ground anymore.. dumb fucks

I feel the exact same way.
At the moment hunters feel broken and underpowered compared to all other classes.

During Dragon Soul I was usually always at the top of the meters on nearly every fight, just below our rogues with legendary daggers.
Now I scratch the bottom alongside balance druids, with a huge difference in DPS between the top and bottom players.

While everything is tuned to 90 now, I doubt anything is going to change at 90 if the current state of some things don't get buffed.
Bursting 100k DPS at the start of a fight since Beast Mastery has so many freaking cooldowns to pop now, is nice and fancy, it doesn't matter if we top out at 40k~ish during stable non-movement fights. (Obviously, tweak the numbers to what it would compare to at level 90)

That's just plain wrong. While there always has to be someone at the bottom of the meter, why don't we ever see mages at the bottom of the meter? Oh right, master-class, of course.

I've been staring blindly at the sims for a good week now and after raiding 2-3 times, I can safely say the current 5.0.4 sims looks to be rather accurate. Me and a good balance druid friends were mindblown how shit we are in raids now, barely bringing good enough DPS and not even enough utility to be worth the hassle.

Originally Posted by Ashe-Arathor

I feel the exact same way.
At the moment hunters feel broken and underpowered compared to all other classes.

While everything is tuned to 90 now, I doubt anything is going to change at 90 if the current state of some things don't get buffed.
Bursting 100k DPS at the start of a fight since Beast Mastery has so many freaking cooldowns to pop now, is nice and fancy, it doesn't matter if we top out at 40k~ish during stable non-movement fights. (Obviously, tweak the numbers to what it would compare to at level 90)

What I dont understand at least is why they cant have the hunter specs balanced. The difference between BM and MM on the sims is huge. Add to that the fact that MM is the least mobile of the 3 specs and with less aoe it should be higher on a patchwerk fight sim. I keep waiting to see some MM buffs but all SV and MM get are "more damage from this, less from that." What I would really like is for them to reduce readiness CD to 3 min for MM back to the way it was. Its so annoying to have to wait 1 or 2 min on RF because the cd doesnt match up with readiness. It still wont refresh stampede so why not? Probably because the devs dont play hunter and have no imagination(which is also a reason why we cant have the option to not use our pet).

The HS nerf is interesting. As a blood DK I am doing a lot of damage with Blood Boil, matter of fact I think BB does a little too much damage. If I have my dancing weapon out and blood boil 3 or 4 times, I can kill lower geared players in BG's rather easily.

Originally Posted by Enfilade

The sacrifice changes really want me to play my Warlock again! I am not a huge fan of pet classes, and maybe this is what the class needed in order to get like-minded players to play the class.

The grimmore change is acually live now, also, this is what has made me reroll. I like the warlock class, but i cannot be bothered to micro manage a pet in raids, their just a pain.

Loved shadowbolt spamming mages from TBC, this is just as good.

Originally Posted by Ashe-Arathor

I feel the exact same way.
At the moment hunters feel broken and underpowered compared to all other classes.

During Dragon Soul I was usually always at the top of the meters on nearly every fight, just below our rogues with legendary daggers.
Now I scratch the bottom alongside balance druids, with a huge difference in DPS between the top and bottom players.

While everything is tuned to 90 now, I doubt anything is going to change at 90 if the current state of some things don't get buffed.
Bursting 100k DPS at the start of a fight since Beast Mastery has so many freaking cooldowns to pop now, is nice and fancy, it doesn't matter if we top out at 40k~ish during stable non-movement fights. (Obviously, tweak the numbers to what it would compare to at level 90)

That's just plain wrong. While there always has to be someone at the bottom of the meter, why don't we ever see mages at the bottom of the meter? Oh right, master-class, of course.

I've been staring blindly at the sims for a good week now and after raiding 2-3 times, I can safely say the current 5.0.4 sims looks to be rather accurate. Me and a good balance druid friends were mindblown how shit we are in raids now, barely bringing good enough DPS and not even enough utility to be worth the hassle.

Go check simulationcraft. Things won't change a lot. Hunters shadow priests and balance druids will be sharing the bottom cut at lvl90

Originally Posted by Strafer

Wow, 60 min Sacrifice, they really don't wanna make us use our minions.

How do people come to these conclusions?

They gave warlocks an option, that is all.

Explosive Shot: 20.9%
Serpent Sting: 7%
Black Arrow: 7.8%
Total from those = 35.7% of your damage

Explosive Shot * 120% = 25.08%
Serpent Sting * 75% = 5.25%
Black Arrow * 76% = 5.928%
Total from those = 36.258%

So if anything it's a slight buff to Survival, nothing much. But it puts more of your damage in your move you cast repeatedly vs your passive dots.

I welcome this GoS change for locks. So far petless >>>>> with pet in both pvp (destro, DA) or pve (affli, destro) imo
Locks back for being a good class?

So their way of balancing hunter specs is by nerfing survival? Given we have less than 3 weeks I don't see any other spec besides BM being viable for raiding.

---------- Post added 2012-09-06 at 05:46 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Haakkon

Explosive Shot: 20.9%
Serpent Sting: 7%
Black Arrow: 7.8%
Total from those = 35.7% of your damage

Explosive Shot * 120% = 25.08%
Serpent Sting * 75% = 5.25%
Black Arrow * 76% = 5.928%
Total from those = 36.258%

So if anything it's a slight buff to Survival, nothing much. But it puts more of your damage in your move you cast repeatedly vs your passive dots.

Even if this data was 100% accurate survival does not compare to BM on encounters single target. Survival tears BM apart in aoe, but the improved serpent sting nerf may help close that gap. Any viable player who tests numbers and pays attention to what is doing what will be BM.

Originally Posted by Milkshake86

Blood DK's were doing near 55k+ as of 5.0.4, clearly needed a buff to DS.

Because what happens to level 90's on beta has an immediate and direct implication on live servers.

I'm glad they made a pet that was only available in vanilla and owned by like .0001% of the playing population available for battles...

Throw us hunter's a damn bone blizz!

Originally Posted by Strafer

Wow, 60 min Sacrifice, they really don't wanna make us use our minions.

What's this for stupid comment? How is a 20 min sacrifice helping anyone to use more pets? It just makes the talent annoying, proper aff and destro locks are still gonna sacrifice even if the duration is 5 minutes because it's more damage. It's a convenience change, if you don't want to sac your pets well, be my guest, but don't tell saccing locks they have to sit on an annoying short duration so you feel more entitled to not use sacrifice, or whatever your argument is behind that comment.

I for one was extremely happy tonight to notice this sacrifice change was already live. The 20 minutes was pissing me off straight away.

---------- Post added 2012-09-07 at 12:55 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Krekentaur

Because what happens to level 90's on beta has an immediate and direct implication on live servers.

Actually these changes appear to be live on, well, live. :P

Okay so it has Lurky's icon and the name of his egg this is rather odd. I thought we were trying to avoid duplicate murloc kid colours? I don't mind if it's obvious to tell them apart like with Murky (?) and the Gladiator blue murloc but if it was Lurky under a different name that'd erk me a bit. More so after all the faffery I went through and paid extra to get him :/

Originally Posted by Strafer

Wow, 60 min Sacrifice, they really don't wanna make us use our minions.

It's not like the 60 minute Sacrifice makes us not want to use our pets even more. I mean Sacrifice is apparently the top talent for Affliction anyway.
THAT'S the incentive to use Sacrifice.
If you're going for Sacrifice you want to keep it up all the time - having a pet out at all with Sacrifice would just be a DPS loss.

This just makes it so I don't have to keep summoning my pet every 20 minutes just to sacrifice it again.
It's a convenience buff, not an incentive buff.