Separate 10 and 25 Man Raid Lockout and Reward Changes in Korea

25 man's are harder to maintain and organize but 25 man raiding is not "harder" and should not be rewarded with higher ilvl loot.

The tears are delicious. That is all.

Originally Posted by Netherspark

It was a bad idea in WotLk and it's a bad idea now.

double lockouts is one thing; but better loot for 25m raids is the RIGHT thing, for sure. i don't want to be in the same kettle with those 10m raiders anymore.

Originally Posted by Furypie

Why the hell would anyone but the absolute top want 2lockouts per week? Also i doubt the majority of people would want this, atleast not on us/eu servers.

Because people actually want something else to do beyond 2 hours of raiding and 100 hours of dailies like, say, more raiding? The actual end-game content which is the predominant focus of WoW as well as PvP?

More lockouts per week, removal of shared lockouts; I would concede on 10/25 keeping the same loot though.

Make it so!

This idea it ridiculous idea and sure if thats what the "korean" players want then sure. Like netherspawk said it was bad for Wotlk its bad now. Your forcing people to have to choose between 10 and 25 because your not making the highest ilevel of gear available to them. You made all these changes so that all these people who work and have a life dont have to spend 100's of hours in this game. Your going to lose more subscribers if you keep this up. Its been happening and will continue to get worse. make the game fun for everyone and let the players make the choice to do 10 or 25 mans while allowing them all to receive the best gear. So stupid if you change this.

The important thing to look at here is that back in WOTLK the 25man raids was made harder, needed more gear, more skilled players etc. Thats why you got better loot.

This doesn't seem to be the case in KR. If they would bring anything like this back, either give same ilvl or make the difficulties different.

I hope these changes come to US servers
25 mans are harder to maintain - Yes
25 mans require (more) skill - Yes

Stone Guard (Heroic):
10 man: 602,278 Raid DPS/86,039 DPS per person (2 Tanks/3 healers, 5 DPS)
25 Man: 1,961,901 Raid DPS/103,257 DPS per person (3 Tanks/6 healers, 16 DPS)

Feng The Accursed (Heroic):
10 man: 345,893 Raid DPS/49,413 DPS per person (2 Tanks/3 healers, 5 DPS)
25 man: 1,351,332 Raid DPS/71,122 DPS per person (2 Tanks/6 healers, 17 DPS)


Elegon (Normal):
10 Man: 724,199 Raid DPS/90,524 DPS per person (2 Tanks/2 healers, 6 DPS)
25 Man: 2,103,156 Raid DPS/105,157 DPS per person (2 Tanks/5 healers, 18 DPS)

Will of the Emperor (Normal):
10 Man: 394,788 Raid DPS/49,348 DPS per person (2 Tanks/2 healers, 6 DPS)
25 Man: 1,259,025 Raid DPS/62,951 DPS per person (2 Tanks/5 healers, 18 DPS)

I fall asleep raiding 10 man. It will always be, for me at least, an inferior way to raid.

Originally Posted by taheen74

This...I do not want to go back to the days of:

"LFG 10m (current raid); MUST be in ilvl 25m gear."

Was the stupidest thing ever in this game.

I agree. I'm not in support of the idea of different ilvls. I'm in a 10 man by choice not because it's easier. (arguements on the 25 vs 10 aside) US servers are already trollish and dont need this in place to support them. Seperate lock outs are ok, but I can see burn out real fast. I'm not sure what I would do if this became a reality.

Probably look elsewhere. I dont need more stuff to do, there's plenty already.

Ridiculous.
When they change this in EU I will quit wow; don't have time for this BS.
In wotlk you couldn't even compete as a 10m guild vs the 25m because they simply rolled over 10m heroics with their gear.

Originally Posted by Vedilanya

This idea it ridiculous idea and sure if thats what the "korean" players want then sure. Like netherspawk said it was bad for Wotlk its bad now. Your forcing people to have to choose between 10 and 25 because your not making the highest ilevel of gear available to them. You made all these changes so that all these people who work and have a life dont have to spend 100's of hours in this game. Your going to lose more subscribers if you keep this up. Its been happening and will continue to get worse. make the game fun for everyone and let the players make the choice to do 10 or 25 mans while allowing them all to receive the best gear. So stupid if you change this.

Nice to see people with common sense post once in a while.

Why do 25mans have to have higher ilvl loot? They should just make 10 and 25 have different lockouts, but have the same loot... For all the servers.

WoW...according to 50% of the people here Cataclysm was the best expansion...and they bash vanilla, tbc and wotlk.
I am so happy 25 man raids are coming back to life! More people means more fun. If you are misanthrope then I don't think you should be playing an mmo. 10 man raids is a joke. Heck, during vanilla some dungeons were 15/10 man!

I will probably give up raiding if they bring this to the EU. It is the most stupid idea I have ever seen...

Originally Posted by Isopahajuho

If they bring this to EU & US, sub count will drop insanely. Forcing ppl to play 25man again would be worst decision they have ever made.

Yeah the amount of subscribers in WOTLK was very low right ......

If 25 man needs something more than 10 man to make it worthwhile, it's clearly not worthwhile to begin with and I fail to see why everyone is trying to keep it alive.

Originally Posted by Ansible

Why does 25man have higher ilvl loot? They should just make 10 and 25 have different lockouts, but have the same loot... For all the servers.

Uhm you realize that this gives a huge advantage to 25m guilds again over 10m guilds?
You get like 6 extra items per boss per week when you go with three additional 10m groups clearing 10m heroic.

I think I see where this is going... if this ever makes it to the west, the 25 man loot won't be upgradable with valor points, so you get extra reward from playing 25 man, you don't have to farm valor points for that.

Otherwise, you're just killing 10 man raiding, pissing more than half of your raid player base big time.

As a 25m guild leader, I welcome this change. I lost 12 members exactly 30 minutes after we achieved Heroic Madness of Deathwing to form a 10m. The sheer amount of work it required to resurrect my raid roster to survive, nobody will ever understand.

Recruitment for 25s has never been more difficult. Perhaps just separating the lockouts would be sufficient, so I could split into two 10s to farm the extra gear each week. Either way, it gives me additional hope to survive this expansion as a 25m guild.

Seariously...if you think 10 man raiding is more fun than 25 or 40..you have no soul. You are dead to me.

Originally Posted by Nagassh

"We wish that players will further enjoy the contents and gain satisfactory rewards" unless you're in a 10man.

I feel bad for saying that though, 25man deserve something extra, I'm just not convinced extra ilevels are what it should be.

25m raids already get 20% more loot per raider. (6/25)/(2/10)=1.2 If that's not enough to convince people to stick to 25m raids, then isn't that a sign that they would rather do 10-mans? Wouldn't it be bad to incentivise either type of raid? If people enjoy 25-man then they will make 25m guilds.

And no, there definitely should NOT be an ilvl difference or you're just forcing everyone back into 25m again, when clearly most players would rather do 10.