Dev Watercooler - Gearing up for Legion PvP
A recap of how PvP gearing will work in Legion was posted today!

  • Gear will not be adjusted in World PvP (Source)
  • For every point above item level 800, your stats in PvP are increased by 0.1%.
  • Someone with item level 900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with item level 800 gear. (The same increase that a 10 item level increase gives in Warlords.)
  • When you win a Battleground, Skirmish, Arena, or Rated Battleground, you have a chance to receive a piece of gear directly.
  • Your first few victories per week in each rated bracket will reward a guaranteed piece of gear, which has its item level increased based on your rating in the bracket.
  • Any time you are awarded gear, it has a chance to have its item level increased further.
  • There is a system in place to reduce the likelihood you will get the same item twice

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In Legion, we’re making some pretty big changes to our PvP systems to make combat against your fellow players more accessible, balanced, and rewarding. Some of the biggest changes we’re making are related to gear—both how it affects your character in PvP, and how it’s awarded. We want to take a bit of time to share with you more of our thoughts on how we arrived at this new PvP gear design and why we think it will create a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

First, we need to share a little high-level philosophy about why we have gear in World of Warcraft. WoW is a game about your character, their adventures in the world of Azeroth, and their growth in power. One of the foundations of the game is being rewarded for your efforts with gear that makes you stronger. WoW offers a wide variety of activities, including quests, dungeons, raiding, and PvP—and while players may find that certain parts of the game appeal most to them, everyone wants to be rewarded fairly for their effort and skill. PvP is no different: players should be rewarded, and their characters should become more powerful, for participating in PvP—and in Legion, we want to reward them in a way that matters not just in PvP, but across all of the game.

We’ve traditionally had different goals for PvP and PvE gear, and how much power it gives you relative to your enemies. For example, in PvE content, it feels good to gain gear and eventually overpower a once-dangerous monster. As players take on more difficult raiding content, it is important that the monsters grow in power and that the gear they drop does too. Over the years, we’ve added a lot of different raid difficulties to accommodate the variety of player types we have. This has resulted in several tiers of gear that make taking on more challenging content feel more rewarding.

In PvP, we want that same feeling of progression, but we have to manage how much stronger you can be compared to your enemies—other players.While a raid boss doesn’t mind when a team of players massively outgears them, it’s a frustrating experience for other players. So, our challenge has been to find a way to allow your character to become stronger through PvP without making your opponents feel like they can’t compete. On top of that, we don’t want to undermine the value of earning gear through other types of gameplay, such as raiding.

We’ve tried a number of solutions in the past. We introduced Resilience in Wrath of the Lich King, and then in Mists, we added PvP Power to the mix as well. In Warlords, PvP gear was given a second PvP item level, and we scaled down gear from non-PvP sources. All of these solutions have worked to some degree, but also made PvP gear needlessly complicated and hindered crossover play. PvP players feel like their gear isn’t useful in PvE circumstances, and vice versa—and when the gear you’ve earned only makes you more powerful in certain situations, these rewards simply feel less rewarding. Going forward, we feel it would be better if the gear awarded in PvE and PvP was just the same. No special item levels. No PvP-specific stats. Playing any part of the game will allow you to get rewards that are meaningful everywhere.

So, assuming we want to reward the same gear in PvE and PvP, how can we handle the conflicting goals we mentioned before? We’re going to have to change what gear means in PvP.

For starters, we have to shrink the power gap that gear creates in PvP. At first, we considered ignoring gear altogether, but it felt counter-intuitive that gear offered no growth in power at all. We also explored an option that involved scaling PvP gear to within a certain item level range, but this was complicated and made the distribution of secondary stats more important than item level. We think it’s important that if a player sees a piece of gear that is an item level upgrade, they will want to equip it.

We ultimately arrived at a solution where we set player stats automatically in PvP and increase those stats based on your average item level. Players would understand that their stats didn’t come from gear, but that the quality of their gear does matter. Currently, we’ve tuned the system such that for every point above item level 800, your stats are increased by 0.1%. This means that someone with item level 900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with item level 800 gear. For comparison, that’s roughly the same increase that a mere 10 item level increase gives in Warlords of Draenor. This allows us to make getting gear feel good in general, while shrinking the power gap to an acceptable range.

Now that we’ve limited the power gap gear can create in PvP, we can offer great gear rewards on par with the rest of the game—but now we need to address how it’s rewarded. One of the big changes in Legion is that gear will no longer be delivered through PvP currencies and vendors. Of course, we know a lot of players like the predictable nature of buying gear from vendors. They can select exactly the item they want and never receive an item they don’t want. It sounds like a perfect situation, but it is also an emotionally flat, predictable experience. There is no anticipation about what your reward will be. No exhilaration when you get something you want. No disappointment when you get something you don’t. We want to bring that emotional experience to PvP rewards—while still doing our best to minimize the amount of disappointment you experience.

In Legion, when players win a Battleground, Skirmish, Arena, or Rated Battleground, they have a chance to receive a piece of gear directly. Furthermore, your first few victories per week in each rated bracket will reward a guaranteed piece of gear, which has its item level increased based on your rating in the bracket. For both systems, gear works like it does in the rest of Legion. Any time you are awarded gear, it has a chance to have its item level increased further.

We understand that randomness in gearing has been problematic for PvP in the past, but we think that the aforementioned changes to PvP gear resolve the vast majority of the issues we’ve encountered before. In Legion, your primary goal in PvP will be increasing your average item level. Getting (or not getting) that perfectly itemized trinket won’t be something you’ll have to worry about. We also have systems in place to reduce the likelihood you’ll see the same item twice, which will help round out your set of gear. The biggest benefit of reducing the predictability in gearing in PvP is we can offer gear on par with the rest of World of Warcraft’s end-game activities. Not only will it make receiving gear from PvP more exciting and rewarding, but it also makes PvP more attractive to all WoW players.

There’s also been some concern from both PvEers and PvPers that “raiders will just do Arena to get easy gear” and “gladiators will just do Mythic raids to get easy gear.” We feel it’s important to remember how challenging both types of gameplay can be. Downing Mythic bosses and earning Gladiator rating are two of the most difficult accomplishments in our game. We think players who have demonstrated skill at those levels deserve to be rewarded with better gear.

We spent a lot of time thinking about how to improve the PvP gear situation for everyone who loves World of Warcraft. We appreciate hearing your thoughts about these changes, so be sure to post your thoughts in the comments below.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dev Watercooler - Gearing up for Legion PvP started by chaud View original post
Comments 127 Comments
  1. mmoc64ace7a841's Avatar
    This brings back memories from TBC... when i did AFK in battlegrounds to get welfare S1 pvp gear (when it later came to buyable with honor points) to be useful when pugging Kara/Maggy/Gruul with my semi-friends.

    That's what we need more. People doing things they don't like to get things they like. Right, i may overreact a bit, but that's what i thought first when reading this thing.
  1. mmoc35ea8102e9's Avatar
    Yeah. Make the rewards so irrelevant that everyone can feel equally good no matter how much time or effort they invest in game.

    First it's " WoW is a game about your character, their adventures in the world of Azeroth, and their growth in power. One of the foundations of the game is being rewarded for your efforts with gear that makes you stronger." and in the same post they first wanted to remove the gear but ended up just making it matter considerably less. Just wow.
  1. paralleluniverse's Avatar
    At first, we considered ignoring gear altogether, but it felt counter-intuitive that gear offered no growth in power at all.
    At last, we finally considered making PvP fair and skill-based, but instead we decided to flip-flop and backpedal hard.

    We tried fair and skill-based PvP, and then we said fuck fair and skill-based PvP, instead we want gear-based PvP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now raiders will be forced to PvP to get get raid gear.

    And conversely high-end raiders will have better PvP gear than many PvP players.

    This absurdity, this tried-and-failed model of raiders being required to PvP for raid gear could have been solved if they made PvP completely skill-based and removed gear in PvP.
  1. Grimoires's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    This is typically why wow post 3.0 has been bad on a gameplay standpoint. You shouldn't overcome a monster because you're wearing epic panties but because you adapted your gameplay to the monster you face (on an individual or a group standpoint).
    So why get gear rewards at all if they shouldn't matter?

    You should initially overcome a monster because you adapted your gameplay to the monster you face. Once you've done that, you're rewarded. Rinse and repeat until it's obsolete and then move on to the next tier with your epic panties so you can withstand a one shot while adapting to new mechanics.

    If we apply your logic than we should never get a reward for killing a monster, there should be no tiers, and everything should be based solely on aptitude, which in my opinion would make the game easier, if you are a smart player. You'd literally just skill your way through everything and not need the gear rewards to assist with anything and complete it all faster than people already do.
  1. Super Kami Dende's Avatar
    Keen as hell for this new System. Used to PvP a lot in WoW but got extremely bored with keeping 2 sets constantly updated for PvE and PvP.

    Being able to use what I wear in PvE for PvP without gimping myself hard will be a godsend.
  1. mmoc587996818c's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    As already stated, WoW has always been a game where gear mattered. But at least there used to be something else in the gameplay department, and not only in the top mythic raid tier of the current patch.
    Like what? Old raids had a few tactics, can you explain what you mean because i see nothing that was better before.
  1. mmoc6c2e0bc3b9's Avatar
    Overall i like the new system, finally a relative even playing field. One thing i am interested in is how they propose to reduce the chance of you receiving the same item twice? Will it mean that we have to keep that said item in our inventories so that the system can "roll check" so its not duplicated or worse we have to equip the item?

    Hopefully it will be more like a "roll check" on your loot history, but i would imagine that would be quite data intensive for every account in wow that pvps.
  1. whyabadi's Avatar
    Great changes in my opinion. At least on paper, but I predict no major problems with them in practice.
    It's rewarding skill in all aspects of the game leaving the power gap at reasonable levels as to not discourage new players or prevent them from having fun and even competing.
    My only concern is we lose choice in secondary stats in pvp. Yes, the honour talents provide a way to customize your character, but it is limiting by design. You can't choose for example to be more defensive or choose mastery to complement a certain talent build.
    Maybe give a way to choose between some amount of secondary stats that scale with your overall ilvl?
  1. Aelric70's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by egeszsegere View Post
    so do i as a mythic raider have to pvp to get better gear for raiding? plz no

    will my pvp rating have influence of how good gear i get for raiding? oh god!

    some pvers hate pvp and vice versa, keep that in mind blizz
    NO to all of your questions. Reading comprehension fail.
  1. orca2425's Avatar
    Nice I always wanted to pop but my char was always too squishy.. And the the gear gap.. This brings over and pop on the same line.. Nice.. Thank you for opening up pvp to ours pver s.. Love the change..lets go.. Awesome.
    .
  1. puttsheals's Avatar
    The award system aside these changes may get more people involved in PvP. In the past few expansions I have been strictly a raider because keeping 3 sets of gear (main spec, off spec and PvP) just wasnt going to fly. However, with these changes and some good looking artifact weapon skins being PvP focused I'll gladly jump back into the PvP world now that my PvE gear wont be a hindrance. I imagine that I am not the only one that feels this way which could help lower those crazy long PvP Q times I hear so much about.
  1. mmocd1d8b32988's Avatar
    What about this "Gear will not be adjusted in World PvP" so in world pvp decent equipped raider will destroy average pvp player?
  1. Roar-Powah's Avatar
    I like to be in control of what pieces of gear i buy, more RNG on top of more RNG, when will Blizzard fucking understand their own damn game? Everything else is fine, glad they are putting some effort into PvP, but shit rng loot drops are a bad idea.
  1. Turin777's Avatar
    Soooo the player base told you that RNG loot sucks, and your answer was "that's okay, we've made it so the gear doesn't matter that much anyway." I'm not feeling very motivated to fool with pvp anymore. So if that was your intended goal, gratz I guess.
  1. Aelric70's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by voda22 View Post
    What about this "Gear will not be adjusted in World PvP" so in world pvp decent equipped raider will destroy average pvp player?
    Depends.
    A) the gearing from pvp will be similar to current end game gear, so not as big a gap as their currently can be.
    B) has this hypothetical raider bothered to earn pvp specific talents and artifact tweaks?

    If not, they probably wont have the sheer stat advantage necessary to overcome those disadvantages. If they have pvp' enough to get them, then your question becomes: will average pvp'r be destroyed by another average pvp'r in slightly better gear. To me, it sounds like gear gaps will be close enough that skill/experience/earned pvp perks will be more important even in world pvp.
  1. Strakha's Avatar
    The entire idea of WoW translating to customers is stupid. Some people hate certain things. Some of us want a great civilization and some of us do not. It is hard to create a fake civilization with both of those ideas, overall I think we can do both.
  1. Aelric70's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Turin777 View Post
    Soooo the player base told you that RNG loot sucks, and your answer was "that's okay, we've made it so the gear doesn't matter that much anyway." I'm not feeling very motivated to fool with pvp anymore. So if that was your intended goal, gratz I guess.
    Would it satisfy if the non-RNG rewards were top notch cosmetic sets?
  1. Tawk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skeletroll View Post
    This brings back memories from TBC... when i did AFK in battlegrounds to get welfare S1 pvp gear (when it later came to buyable with honor points) to be useful when pugging Kara/Maggy/Gruul with my semi-friends.

    That's what we need more. People doing things they don't like to get things they like. Right, i may overreact a bit, but that's what i thought first when reading this thing.
    Nothing in the blue post said you have to PVP to get raid gear. Raid gear will still be attainable like normal, and gear attained from battlegrounds will not be "so easy to get that PVE players will feel compelled to play BGs." The whole point of this change is to balance PVP while still including progression. Not to compel PVE players to change their methods. Why would you EVER go afk in battlegrounds?? What a childish attitude.
  1. Tyrannica's Avatar
    i don't like pvp templates in pvp instances. People should learn to gear up when they participate in pvp like they do in pve.

    no one gets pve templates while during a raid or 5man, either.

    Since there is no longer resilence and pvp power or increased pvp ilvl on gear, it should not be that hard to gear up for pvp, all thats needed is to reduce better gear from arena/rbg rating and mythic raids, but not that much, it should still be a reward. Power increase could be much highter than just 10% overall for the best gear you wear in comparission to starter gear, in this case starter template.

    Also the feel is not rewarding to get good gear by doing pvp and use it unlocked for pve as it only makes pvp instances feel castrated when it comes to gear.
  1. Aelric70's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Osanger View Post
    Overall i like the new system, finally a relative even playing field. One thing i am interested in is how they propose to reduce the chance of you receiving the same item twice? Will it mean that we have to keep that said item in our inventories so that the system can "roll check" so its not duplicated or worse we have to equip the item?

    Hopefully it will be more like a "roll check" on your loot history, but i would imagine that would be quite data intensive for every account in wow that pvps.
    Loot history is irrelevant. Either you have an item (equipped, in bag, or in bank) or you don't. That's probably a very short query/check to process in real time at loot roll. You cant get a duplicate of something you dont have.

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