Looks like hunters were never supposed to be on top of the charts

[Deleted]

Hunters were never going to top the charts in 4.2, especially not since casters will have access to a legendary. Casters are already creeping up on MM hunters according to :- http://simulationcraft.org/420/Raid_...T11_372_Arcane and the legendary will probably have pushed them above us anyway.

Anyway its like a 1-2k dps loss for MM which was expected to happen. Even with that nerf we would still be in the top 5 dps specs in the game.

[BatteredRose]

Anyway its like a 1-2k dps loss for MM which was expected to happen. Even with that nerf we would still be in the top 5 dps specs in the game.

But if I can't be number one then what's the point in playing?!

Kidding, of course. Just saying what the complainers are probably thinking.

[Deleted]

But if I can't be number one then what's the point in playing?!

Kidding, of course. Just saying what the complainers are probably thinking.

Of course thats what they are thinking. Everyone wants to be top. But even they need to realise, being nerfed, but remaining in the top 5 dps specs in the game is still amazing. Look at Shamans. Even recieving multiple buffs they are still near the bottom of the pile. And remember Uh dk's? They were top dps when Cata began and now look at them. Middle of the pack at most. They could have hit MM so much harder than they decided to and people should really look at it as a blessing, as now they are a not so obvious target for the nerfmallet.

[Phlegethon]

You only use aimed shot on master marksman proc anyway. I don't get what the problem is. Focus dump is either arcane shot or chimaira shot which is clearly enough...
Who wants haste anyway :s

[Deleted]

You only use aimed shot on master marksman proc anyway. I don't get what the problem is. Focus dump is either arcane shot or chimaira shot which is clearly enough...
Who wants haste anyway :s

Wrong on so many levels >_< During Careful Aim phase you should be doing nothing except SS and AiS, normally SS x2 then AiS then another SSx2 and so on. Even outside CA phase you can choose to either use AS as a focus dump or continue hard-casting AiS as a focus dump (though you will still hit Chim on CD no matter which one you choose).

[Chupathingy]

i'm assuming the post 2 above me is sarcasm
anywho i think the main reason people are annoyed by this (atleast me) is cause of the fact we have like 5 or 6 talents that are completely broken or really subpar and they choose to ignore them to nerf one of the more interesting talents

[Leorina]

This nerf was totally uncalled for. They're treating it as though MM was the top single target DPS spec or something...

...Oh wait.

[Deleted]

Oh deary.. Poor hunters.. Nerfed to the ground! Woe be them!

I wonder how the other classes are holding up now?

Oh wait..
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5#post11699255

[Vozzek]

It's like driving a car with square wheels, and a steering wheel made out of ice cream. The only saving grace the spec has is its competitive damage.

I question your use of metaphor, sir. I don't believe you've actually ever driven a car with a steering wheel made out of ice cream.

I don't mind nerfs, particularly when we are are at or near the top of DPS charts. If we slip a bit, so be it. This is the nature of the game.

My concern is more with the butterfly effect. With a game as complex as Wow is, small changes can have large consequences, which will prompt the need for more changes. At the moment, I like the way MM plays; I am less concerned with how large our numbers are, and more concerned with the way the spec plays. Changing this talent from 80 to 90 significantly changes the rhythm of the spec, and I fear that Blizzard may be over-shooting with this, and will feel the need to compensate elsewhere down the line, possibly further changing the rhythm. I guess we'll see.

[Myzou]

I'm at a loss as to how people can think a loss of 60% crit for half of the first 20% of a boss is going to affect your DPS so much.

At the most, you'll lose ~200. Unless you know, you fail too much to keep up your DPS.

You have 80% more to dps the boss with. The first 20% has a very, VERY minor impact on your overall boss DPS.

[Herecius]

You have 80% more to dps the boss with. The first 20% has a very, VERY minor impact on your overall boss DPS.

Not always true; sometimes, that opening DPS really is the most important. See: Al'akir.

In any case, like some other posters have realized, the real travesty isn't that MM, already a very powerful DPS spec, is being nerfed, but that Survival, a fairly weak DPS spec, is also being nerfed. Pretty dumb.

[Dracodraco]

I'm at a loss as to how people can think a loss of 60% crit for half of the first 20% of a boss is going to affect your DPS so much.

At the most, you'll lose ~200. Unless you know, you fail too much to keep up your DPS.

You have 80% more to dps the boss with. The first 20% has a very, VERY minor impact on your overall boss DPS.

For any other spec but a hunter this is true. But the first 20% of a boss, with cooldowns/bloodlust usually enabled, and aimed shots going out, is a quite substantial amount of damage. Cutting that in half won't just be 200 dps - it's going to be quite a bit more.

And honest to god, they just need to revert the agility nerf to survivial - maybe not the 15% BA/explo nerfs, but the biggest issue about survivial VS marksmanship is that Marks scales so much better with weapons than surv scales with gear overall. Another 5% agility would help close the gap between the two specs, AND eliminate the scaling issues for this upcoming tier. It might throw things out of whack later on, but on the other hand, Blizzard never seems to be afraid of fixing a class for just 1 tier, then redoing it the next.

[Herecius]

I'm at a loss as to how people can think a loss of 60% crit for half of the first 20% of a boss is going to affect your DPS so much.

At the most, you'll lose ~200. Unless you know, you fail too much to keep up your DPS.

Oh, and in answer to this, it's a COLOSSAL nerf to opening DPS if you were opening with Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot hardcasts. I spike to over 70k dps, average over 40k during CA phase, before slowly dropping down back into the rest of the normal DPS range over the course of the rest of a fight. Cutting that duration in half by going from 80% to 90% with CA is pretty gigantic.

[Wardley]

How bad is it really? I Honestly want to know, I JUST Hit 85 on my hunter and love Marks, would be a shame to have to switch specs or something =/

You're not going to have to switch specs over this. It just means that all three specs are slightly more competitive again which each other (if not neccessary with whatever the flavour of the month MAX dps class/spec).

Personally, I'd have preferred they found a way to get BM and SV dps up alongside MM DPS, maybe by giving BM a pet that does 'proper' ranged attacks (that's the biggest loss of DPS for BM when the pet can't attack the boss) and maybe for SV by extending Black Arrow to last 25 secs so that you can get 100% uptime in the target which will give you more chances for LnL (it's dispelling so that wont screw up PvP) - but if they're nerfing all the top DPS classes down then I suppose the end result will be the same and we get to choose which spec we want to play without having to worry about finger pointing about low DPS because of your spec.

[Azriell]

Sigh. I wish people would actually check raidbots or something to see the standings.

All of the specs that got nerfed had their own competitive cluster at the very tippy top of the meter, beating the "runner ups" by around 2k DPS. This was fixed. It's called damage control.

The nerf comes out to be about a 2k-2.5k DPS loss, putting it near equal (though still slightly better) to Survival for the start of the tier instead of blowing it away and still going up.

Assuming the pet focus bug gets fixed, this currently has ZERO impact on BM or Surv. BM is only taking Careful Aim atm because pet focus bug makes Sic'em useless. The highest BM DPS spec excluding the bug does not take careful Aim. As for Survival, similar situation. Assuming the pet focus bug gets fixed, Sic'em provides exactly identical DPS to Careful Aim. Careful Aim is merely picked up because of the pet bug and fights like Al'akir to push to p2 faster.

MM: nerfed.
BM: same
Survival: same

Overall effect: All 3 specs will be competitive and close to equals until Firelands hard modes.

How is that same?!
cobra shot is losing 60% crit for <90% too, this will hurt all specs
this is terrible nerf consider everyone is poping cd's at the begining of the fight this is gonna be a huge dps lost.

[Deleted]

Don't worry too much hunters, spriests and arcane mages are next on the nerf list anyway

----

As for raiding, do it my way.

You got 3 cds.

- Call of the wild (5min cd)
- Rapid fire (3min cd)
- Rapid fire (3min cd)

I spread them out during a fight, meaning I start with CotW, followed by rapid fire, then I wait a minute and use the cd to gain another rapid fire. At 25% or less hp just pop ur call of the wild again, followed by 2x rapid fire (or you can even use RF around 30% and then pop CotW and then RF). If you combine those with the tolvir potions and the engi gloves... I doubt that 10% less is really gonna give a big difference anyway.

[Ovacor]

I do believe Marksman was in need of a nerf, though nerfing this particular talent is absolutely idiotic. As someone already pointed out this will hurt Survival a lot more than it will hurt marksman. I know it is not easy to balance an MMO but these kind of nerfs really make me question what Blizz is thinking..?

[Deleted]

Brb commiting suicide.

How can you 'be right back' when you try and commit suicide?
Are you jesus?
/worship

[Dracodraco]

Don't worry too much hunters, spriests and arcane mages are next on the nerf list anyway

----

As for raiding, do it my way.

You got 3 cds.

- Call of the wild (5min cd)
- Rapid fire (3min cd)
- Rapid fire (3min cd)

I spread them out during a fight, meaning I start with CotW, followed by rapid fire, then I wait a minute and use the cd to gain another rapid fire. At 25% or less hp just pop ur call of the wild again, followed by 2x rapid fire (or you can even use RF around 30% and then pop CotW and then RF). If you combine those with the tolvir potions and the engi gloves... I doubt that 10% less is really gonna give a big difference anyway.

Stupid stupid stupid way of doing it.

Not factoring in bloodlust, a 8 minute fight (progress ones like V+T, magmaw, omnotron, cho'gall usually lasts around that long I think?):

00:00 - pop rapid fire + COTW.
00:17 - Rapid fire 2.
03:20 - Rapid fire 3.
03:37 - Rapid fire 4.
06:40 - Rapid fire 5 + COTW2.
06:57 - Rapid fire 6.
Youre not gonna get 3x COTW's in one fight, so saving COTW for a rapid fire cluster is preferable, but getting off rapid fires ASAP is also favorable as you'd get 6 instead of 4 as you do if you wait a minute between the rapid fires...

[Deleted]

Stop moaning u freaking nabcakes, if u are MM and u wanna spam aimed shot to 80% thats entirely upto you but all it gives is DPS epeen, the only fight currently in cata that u wanna try burn through 100/80% is alakir, and even that isnt hard.

stop to cry about a generally small nerf