Space elevator

[Reeve]

As i said solved through show specific means. But yeah it shows pretty well what COULD happen if it goes wrong. Though they probably understate the death toll.

I suppose that depends on where you cut the tether. Cut it low enough, and the whole thing just flies off into space, because the counterweight pulls it away. It also probably depends on where the tether is anchored on Earth. If it's in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, for example, it likely wouldn't cause any deaths at all.

[Fuzzzie]

As i said solved through show specific means. But yeah it shows pretty well what COULD happen if it goes wrong. Though they probably understate the death toll.

Not sure if it matters. The cost from what I read would bankrupt us before we could blow it up.

[Chaochamp]

Screw the elevator, we need a Death Star. For science of course.

Now for actual discussion. If the entire world economy was able to agree that they all wanted this to happen, couldn't it be produced free of any money? Like, if every significant economy agrees that we need this kind of machine, then we could all agree not to charge for anything regarding this project, and have every country producing this product then I could actually see it happening.

But the chances of that are slim to none.

[ImpTaimer]

NASA is currently running a "competition" for the most viable solution to a space elevator with a $1million reward for the best... pity america doesn't like space enough to invest in it anymore. Not that I can talk, Britain doesn't even have a space programme...

We'd rather give a million dollars to an actor to come and show up at a kids party. Fucking travesty I know.

[semaphore]

Now for actual discussion. If the entire world economy was able to agree that they all wanted this to happen, couldn't it be produced free of any money? Like, if every significant economy agrees that we need this kind of machine, then we could all agree not to charge for anything regarding this project, and have every country producing this product then I could actually see it happening.

So what, the workers mining the raw materials, working in factories to process it, on the actual construction site putting the tower together, they should just go and starve to death? What about the power station supplying the electricity for the mines and the refineries and factories, what about their employees? What about the supply chain for the power plant's raw materials?

[Gottie4u]

It better have this.

[Sorrior]

I suppose that depends on where you cut the tether. Cut it low enough, and the whole thing just flies off into space, because the counterweight pulls it away. It also probably depends on where the tether is anchored on Earth. If it's in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, for example, it likely wouldn't cause any deaths at all.

Oh agreed. Just in that show they followed the orbital ring model.

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 09:16 AM ----------

Not sure if it matters. The cost from what I read would bankrupt us before we could blow it up.

Yeah we REALLY need to get over this whole money thing.

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 09:20 AM ----------

So what, the workers mining the raw materials, working in factories to process it, on the actual construction site putting the tower together, they should just go and starve to death? What about the power station supplying the electricity for the mines and the refineries and factories, what about their employees? What about the supply chain for the power plant's raw materials?

Money is a manmade concept to begin with. I mean why not just i dunno give out food to those who work/need it? Or maybe try and use a barter system. But yeah money is manmade we don't NEED it we just use it as a convenience. Hell i've been wondering why we don't just go global currency for awhile myself TBH. I mean not like the internet hasn't killed national identity as we knew it already. If anything we're now a world of cliques instead of nations. Now if you'll excuse me i need to get back to bringing about the end of the world by cleaning my room while my slow ass internet updates DC universe online on my new PS3.

[procne]

Doesn't lift like this have to be built at the equator for geostationary orbit? Where exactly would they to build it?

[Deleted]

I've read through the whole thread by now and think it's time to clear up some misconceptions (of which McSpriest has already done a great deal) and to present you with some alternative solutions to "easy" space travel.

First, as McSpriest's calculations may have indicated, he didn't state it explicitly: There would be no problem in "lifting" the weight of the cable. The real problem occurs neither at the top nor at the bottom of such a structure, since you've practically got the lower half pulling downwards (or rather being pulled downwards by gravitational force) and the upper half pulling upwards (being pulled by centrifugal force). This appears to be a solution, but it really only appears to... since the weight of both the counterweight (which is lifting nothing, but rather pulling in the opposite direction than earth's gravity) and the weight of the cable pull with such a force on the middle of the structure, that it's literally torn apart.

As for the figures of McSpriest calculated and presented in this thread, you should want to recalculate the effective force, since the force needed to lift an object and thus the effective weight for your calculations decrease steadily with higher altitude (as has been mentioned by somebody else as a side note already) until you reach geostationary orbit. Simply double the force needed to lift a cable dangling down from geostationary orbit (since you'll need the same force coming from the counterweight) and you'll have the force pulling at the juncture point. The result might be much lower than you anticipated. And yes @procne, a structure like this would need to be built near the equator, since geostationary orbit is much lower there than towards the poles of the earth.

As for the promised alternatives (yeah, even more alternative than a space lift):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_fountain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarTram

There are lots of people thinking about solutions to making space travel easier, cheaper and more accessible in general. I think it'll happen within this century, simply because an easily accessible station in orbit or on the moon will be the only feasible way to start interplanetary missions with manned spacecraft. Heck, there might even come a new age of "space race" for either a manned mission to Mars or a constantly manned moon base, both of which would more or less require such an infrastructural revolution.

[semaphore]

Money is a manmade concept to begin with. I mean why not just i dunno give out food to those who work/need it? Or maybe try and use a barter system. But yeah money is manmade we don't NEED it we just use it as a convenience. Hell i've been wondering why we don't just go global currency for awhile myself TBH. I mean not like the internet hasn't killed national identity as we knew it already. If anything we're now a world of cliques instead of nations. Now if you'll excuse me i need to get back to bringing about the end of the world by cleaning my room while my slow ass internet updates DC universe online on my new PS3.

Well, we can barter for goods, but the reason we use money now is because currency-based market is much more efficient than bartering. Sure it's a artificial concept, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It's still the best way to have a functional economy that we have.

Also the food and housing and entertainment and medical needs for everyone building a space elevator is immense. No one can provide that much simply out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Anakso]

That would definitely be amazing, and I love the addition of a solar panel onto it, cutting costs of transferring things to space by a hell of a lot.

I'm also a huge space fanatic and this or something similar is something I really would like to see within my lifetime.

[Deepsidedj]

Southpark much ?

[Anakso]

Screw the elevator, we need a Death Star. For science of course.

Unfortunately some students worked out how much it would cost to build a deathstar, it would cost $8.1quadrillion, which is 13,000 times the worlds gross product. No death star =(

[Twoflower]

Tyson said that it can not be built in our lifetime.

Sorry guys.

[Reeve]

Tyson said that it can not be built in our lifetime.

Sorry guys.

Yeah, well, computer people of the 1960s probably never would have believed smartphones would be possible in their lifetimes. Technology changes faster than we can predict.

[Purlina]

Yeah, well, computer people of the 1960s probably never would have believed smartphones would be possible in their lifetimes. Technology changes faster than we can predict.

Even if it was technologically possible, politics would prevent it from being built.

[semaphore]

Yeah, well, computer people of the 1960s probably never would have believed smartphones would be possible in their lifetimes. Technology changes faster than we can predict.

People in the 1960s also thought we'd have moon colonies by now. Changes are slower than we can predict too.

[Reeve]

People in the 1960s also thought we'd have moon colonies by now. Changes are slower than we can predict too.

We probably could have had moon colonies by now, if we'd had the will to do it. But your point is taken, in that we probably lack the will to make something like a space elevator, even if the tech came into being.

[DPA]

And terrorists be like "My Brother! I have found the biggest tower for us to fly into!"

[Deleted]

People in the 1960s also thought we'd have moon colonies by now. Changes are slower than we can predict too.

It's because there is no profit in the space stuff. If it was possible to make a lot of money by going into space, we'd already have Mars bases by now or more. Sure there would be some rich tourists but on the long run, not enough to make it worth it.

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 03:58 PM ----------

Unfortunately some students worked out how much it would cost to build a deathstar, it would cost $8.1quadrillion, which is 13,000 times the worlds gross product. No death star =(

Not to mention it would attract rebels to blow it up.