Camera and Movement - The game is broken?

[rhandric]

After this comment there is no doubt

Ahh, good old ad hominem, the refuge of the factless.

[Deleted]

I'll gladly take this "movement issues" over the legs facing one direction, torso another in op's mmo of comparison.

[Grraarrgghh]

How in the hell do you come to that conclusion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29

It's actually a very common issue when playing games ported to the computer, where it's intended for you to hold L+R while pushing another key, that you can't actually pull off such a key combination.

Yep, well known keyboard phenomena known as "ghosting", happens on most non-gaming keyboards, and even outside the WASD zone on a lot of actual gaming keyboards (I'm looking at you Logitech G510...stupid arrow keys).

However, the g13 pad shown is well-regarded for having 0 ghosting and a theoretical simultaneous pad smash ability (ie everything will press at once).

[DrakeWurrum]

Yeah, I've been meaning to get a proper gaming keyboard like the Anasi, but I'm stuck using a standard Dell keyboard for now. *grumps*

[Karizee]

What camera problems?

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/gui...f-the-foefire/

[reckoner04]

What camera problems?

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/gui...f-the-foefire/

Do you notice the camera moving extremely smoothly? There's no way the player moved his mouse like that (so smooth), which means player input isn't translated 1:1 into camera movement.

The problem is:
For the players who don't have any issues with this feature, it makes the gameplay experience more enjoyable (it gives the camera a cinematic and smooth feel, makes it easier to track objects moving on the screen).
For the players who don't like it, it makes the camera feel clunky and it creates a disconnect between the player and the character/game world.

The best solution, in my opinion, would be to implement an option to enable or disable smooth camera movement.

[DrakeWurrum]

What camera problems?

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/gui...f-the-foefire/

Yeah, I'm not seeing anything in that video, though I've only watched the first half... and boy is he moving that camera around a lot to look at stuff. The camera only zooms in when there's an object or a wall behind it, which is expected.

---------- Post added 2012-07-24 at 03:19 PM ----------

Do you notice the camera moving extremely smoothly? There's no way the player moved his mouse like that (so smooth), which means player input isn't translated 1:1 into camera movement.

The problem is:
For the players who don't have any issues with this feature, it makes the gameplay experience more enjoyable (it gives the camera a cinematic and smooth feel, makes it easier to track objects moving on the screen).
For the players who don't like it, it makes the camera feel clunky and it creates a disconnect between the player and the character/game world.

The best solution, in my opinion, would be to implement an option to enable or disable smooth camera movement.

Camera movements didn't seem that smooth to me. O_o

It's also worth noting that my camera moved faster than his, and I didn't even use 50% of the slider bar.

[Moinaldo]

Keyboard turner + Same camera effects as WoW = Nothing to see here.

[reckoner04]

[...]
Camera movements didn't seem that smooth to me. O_o

In that case you probably don't talk about the same thing as I do (or I don't talk about the same thing as the OP ) or you simply don't know where to look. In any case, good for you that it doesn't cause any problems to you .

The effect is similar to the one of a steady cam in real life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0DM7...eature=related
Take a look at 1:10+. There's of course no way you could move a camera smoothly like this with your bare hands. Same with the GW2 camera and your mouse.

EDIT:
Or take a look at this picture, maybe this explanation will make the issue clearer:
http://www.steema.net/teechart_vcl_f...nctionDemo.PNG
The horizontal axis is time, vertical axis is speed. Red curve is mouse speed (player input), green curve is camera speed (game output). In FPS's or in WoW, the green curve would be exactly the same as the red one.

[Borzo]

For those that don't understand why mouse acceleration / camera inertia is a problem... let me provide this link right here:

http://articles.businessinsider.com/...ice-speech-pew

Having the screen show something different than what the mouse is doing - even if delayed only by a few milliseconds - causes some people's brains to break. This has been known for some time now. Just like delaying your own speech, delaying your own vision in response to mouse movement is very jarring and immersion breaking for some (me included).

Some people don't care. Camera inertia simply makes the game look better, so I understand why they use it. But for those that it does affect, it really, really, needs to be optional.

[reckoner04]

[...]

Very nice way to put it . Though I don't know if there is an actual delay between input and output. It's just that they aren't the same.

EDIT: Lol @ the video.

[Borzo]

Very nice way to put it . Though I don't know if there is an actual delay between input and output. It's just that they aren't the same.

There isn't a delay - exactly - but it does give the illusion of a delay. The responsiveness is slower - camera movement doesn't accelerate as fast, and it continues to "glide" after the mouse has stopped. It makes it feel mouse input lag.

The end result is something that's very similar to what the link shows: it breaks your brain.

[DrakeWurrum]

There isn't a delay - exactly - but it does give the illusion of a delay. The responsiveness is slower - camera movement doesn't accelerate as fast, and it continues to "glide" after the mouse has stopped. It makes it feel mouse input lag.

The end result is something that's very similar to what the link shows: it breaks your brain.

I'm still saying I never noticed this. My camera motion was pretty damn snappy. I can't really notice it in videos, either, but I also don't know when he's moving the mouse, so that's hard to judge.

[reckoner04]

I'm still saying I never noticed this. My camera motion was pretty damn snappy. I can't really notice it in videos, either, but I also don't know when he's moving the mouse, so that's hard to judge.

I find it a bit strange that you've been arguing in this thread for 20 pages, yet you can't see this issue. To be fair, that's only one of the issues the OP wanted to adress. Though I think the others are much less severe and will impact fewer people. Some are probably also easier to fix.
Well, I think I'm done here. I've explained it as good as I can, I've got nothing more to say about this topic.

[Siq1ne]

All your video did was make me want to play more. Everything you are describing sounds more like you're stuck in a certain WAY of doing something. The fact that you dodge stuff in this game makes it necessary that the characters are a little more real with their movements. If you turn around to run the other way, it is 100% impossible to do so without TURNING.

The little issues like zooming out MAY be added later, or may not. It might just be that the Devs don't like people being zoomed out too far. I would enjoy a little more mobility but I can play it just fine the way it is currently. It's definitely not broken.

[grandpab]

For those that don't understand why mouse acceleration / camera inertia is a problem... let me provide this link right here:

http://articles.businessinsider.com/...ice-speech-pew

Having the screen show something different than what the mouse is doing - even if delayed only by a few milliseconds - causes some people's brains to break. This has been known for some time now. Just like delaying your own speech, delaying your own vision in response to mouse movement is very jarring and immersion breaking for some (me included).

Some people don't care. Camera inertia simply makes the game look better, so I understand why they use it. But for those that it does affect, it really, really, needs to be optional.

Isn't it called camera stiffness in WoW? I actually like a slight delay/inertia/softness/whatever you want to call it. Too stiff and the game just feels a bit off for me, but too soft and it's a bit annoying. I like where it's at in GW2.

[rhinomatic]

Is this something that is handled by the graphics card that an older card simply won't do?

I'm hot-rodding along with an old 9800GT, and I lose a lot of graphic-related stuff. I don't have the whipping effect that seems to be the heart of the issue. My camera goes when I go, stops when I stop. Could that be because my graphics card just isn't doing it?

[iCandy]

Double post..

[Lusitan]

What camera problems?

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/gui...f-the-foefire/

are u blind, or something

[Luko]

are u blind, or something

Apparently. What am I looking at in this video? (aside from the otherwise normal pvp scenario.)