a question to US gun owners.

[Laize]

That's what every economist has been saying. You start paying down your debt during periods of high growth rates and high tax receipts. Again Laize we aren't Zimbabwe, we aren't Greece. We are the largest economy in the world. Stop fretting over our wee-debt.

No. Keynesian economists advocate deficit spending to boost the economy during recessions. Not for day to day operations.

No economist will say a 200% debt:GDP is an acceptable thing for any nation

[Nos]

No economist will say a 200% debt:GDP is an acceptable thing for any nation

No economist who doesn't want to ride the media high.

[Eomar]

The 2nd Amendment isn't just there to protect your family from intruders. It is also there so the civilian population can overthrow an oppressive government or help defend the nation against invasion. It provides a huge deterrent for invasion of the US.

"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto, Japanese Fleet Admiral during WW2

[Deleted]

because if you are afraid of your own shadow you need a gun to feel safe...

[Themius]

The 2nd Amendment isn't just there to protect your family from intruders. It is also there so the civilian population can overthrow an oppressive government or help defend the nation against invasion. It provides a huge deterrent for invasion of the US.

"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto, Japanese Fleet Admiral during WW2

I thought the second amendment was meant to refer to militias a ''WELL TRAINED MILITIA'' since when did random lay persons = well trained militia? The supreme court later changed how they interpreted it from the original just so guns could remain easy to attain and people could keep using the bullshit excuse "It's my right!"

I asked this question about guns to people in England, France, Japan, Netherlands, and most of them say they feel safe without a gun, would actually feel bothered if their neighbors had guns because they would feel threatened by them and if they had to protect them selfs they would rather use knife versus a gun and shooting people to death. Also most seemed to want to incapacitate thieves not just kill them, as was the popular opinion on the other topic.

---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 09:29 AM ----------

Tell that to this woman:



Oh wait, you can't. BECAUSE SHE IS DEAD!

I suppose defending yourself against a coward makes you the coward with your logic?

this is such a fucking tired argument. This woman died EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A GUN GIVE EVERYONE A GUN KEEP EVERYONE SAFE!

Never mind the fact that every heated argument could turn into a shooting because people don't think when they're mad, which is how my friends brother killed his brother. Or how his wife almost killed him over what she "thought" she saw.

---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 09:42 AM ----------

You know what else is fucking sickening. Theses people take the last moment of this womans life and then go "if only she had a gun" what a fucked up thing to say. To use her death for political gain. It's fucking pathetic.

[Maleficus]

I thought the second amendment was meant to refer to militias a ''WELL TRAINED MILITIA'' since when did random lay persons = well trained militia? The supreme court later changed how they interpreted it from the original just so guns could remain easy to attain and people could keep using the bullshit excuse "It's my right!"

I asked this question about guns to people in England, France, Japan, Netherlands, and most of them say they feel safe without a gun, would actually feel bothered if their neighbors had guns because they would feel threatened by them and if they had to protect them selfs they would rather use knife versus a gun and shooting people to death. Also most seemed to want to incapacitate thieves not just kill them, as was the popular opinion on the other topic.

Speaking of tired arguments...^ I love how you suggest that every gun owner is some "random lay person". Would you be satisfied with a gun training course being the requirement to own a gun? My guess is "No." Regardless, if you do some research on all of the text surrounding the 2nd amendment, it becomes abundantly clear that the founders of this nation essentially did want everyone to own a gun.

Also, America =/= England, France, Japan, etc. Personally, i really couldn't care less how someone in some other country feels about my gun ownership.

[Themius]

Speaking of tired arguments...^ I love how you suggest that every gun owner is some "random lay person". Would you be satisfied with a gun training course being the requirement to own a gun? My guess is "No." Regardless, if you do some research on all of the text surrounding the 2nd amendment, it becomes abundantly clear that the founders of this nation essentially did want everyone to own a gun.

Also, America =/= England, France, Japan, etc. Personally, i really couldn't care less how someone in some other country feels about my gun ownership.

Americans are paranoid. They are always paranoid and constantly worry about things. I have noticed this living here.

Your guess is wrong.

I would prefer no guns, but being as this is "gun ho America I don't give a shit if giving up my guns lower the number of people killed" the only way is to make everyone who uses a gun get go through training.

Training for every weapon. My friend walked into walmart bought a shotgun for her home and that was that. Fuck that system. She should have had to go through psych evaluation and special shotgun training.

I am pretty sure the crazy guy who shot a sales man as he was leaving his lawn to death would not have had a gun had he been psych evaluated.

[wdmshmo]

You are correct. We do not "need" Fully or semi-Automatic Rifles, sub-machine guns, and/or sniper rifles. Pistols could be considered a "need", as people can argue that they are small, concealable, and perfect for self defense. Shotguns are traditionally hunting weapons. Also a debatable "need."

However, there are the people who think that perhaps one day, we will need to actually uphold their promise on the Second Amendment. It is a right, a privilege, and a promise. If the people of the United States are no longer able to consider themselves better with the Government than without, than they would be in their right to uphold it. And in this case, a shotgun and a few handguns will not get the job done. Not going to argue whether or not this is outdated, but:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If it does become necessary to form a militia, and retaliate against their own Gov. then if they do not have anything more than shotguns and pistols, they stand no chance. Absolutely 0% chance, instead of the 1-10% chance they would stand with the current civilian "Armories"

[Aoyi]

I'm personally against guns now, though I wasn't when I was younger. My grandfather was a huge gun buff with quite a collection. He even had a bullet press and showed me how to use it when I was a kid. He bought me a couple guns when I was young and would take me out to shoot them in the woods behind his cabin. I enjoyed the hell out of them, but I was also about 7-10 during those years.

Fast forward 10 years later and a kid in my class decides he wants to go out. He gets into an argument with his mother over it and shoots his mother 6 or 7 times, killing her. He then places her body behind the couch and steals her car. He comes to school the next day like nothing happened (but brings the gun), then a couple days later decides to run to PA (his old neighborhood) to hide out. He's caught, but that doesn't change the fact that this poor women is dead because of a stupid argument with her son.

A year or two later, I get into a fight with a friend of mine over stolen property (he stole my guitar). I break things off with this friend because seriously wtf. A few months later he goes to jail for killing his grandmother. The reason he killed her? Money. Again, some teenage kid shoots an innocent women for what amounted to $200-$300 (can't remember the exact amount).

I know these are 2 incidents and there are millions of guns going around in this country. There are plenty of responsible gun owners, who most likely never going to fire one. That doesn't change the fact that the guns are designed for the purpose of killing. They may never be used, but its their intent. Just look at how many shootings are on the news. Sure, for every idiot or psycho out there, there are hundreds of sane gun owners, but people are still dead. They didn't get a say in the matter. Someone decided that they were going to fire a gun and someone or many people died as a result. Hell, a lot of times, the person killed isn't even the intended target because people find its a lot harder to shoot accurately when it actually comes down to it.

Edit: Updated to include a link to one of the two incidents I mentioned. I can't remember my friend from highschool's last name, but its from the same school.
http://articles.philly.com/1999-02-2...delphia-police

[Riekul]

I have two firearms in my house: one a bolt action hunting rifle that I purchased, the other a break action shotgun my dad loaned me for rabbit hunting. In my experience, it wasn't exactly easy to purchase my gun, but I suppose it wasn't super difficult either. I called in before I went to the store to find out what I would need, and discovered that I would need to have my driver's license updated so that it showed my current address. After arriving at the store, choosing the rifle I wanted, and filling out all the necessary paperwork (there was quite a lot), I had to wait roughly an hour (maybe more) for them to run a background check on me. After that, an employee carried the firearm to the door for me where I finally was able to take possession of it.

As for me, I don't own my firearms for protection, they are for hunting. If I needed to use them to defend myself I suppose I could, but they are neither designed for that, nor intended.

As far as automatic weapons are concerned, I see no need for any normal citizen to own them, which is likely why they are already illegal. Perhaps they could make the punishment much more severe, but I really doubt that would help that much. In my mind the big issue in this case is not the law or the punishment, it is the enforcement of the law.

[Themius]

I'm personally against guns now, though I wasn't when I was younger. My grandfather was a huge gun buff with quite a collection. He even had a bullet press and showed me how to use it when I was a kid. He bought me a couple guns when I was young and would take me out to shoot them in the woods behind his cabin. I enjoyed the hell out of them, but I was also about 7-10 during those years.

Fast forward 10 years later and a kid in my class decides he wants to go out. He gets into an argument with his mother over it and shoots his mother 6 or 7 times, killing her. He then places her body behind the couch and steals her car. He comes to school the next day like nothing happened (but brings the gun), then a couple days later decides to run to PA (his old neighborhood) to hide out. He's caught, but that doesn't change the fact that this poor women is dead because of a stupid argument with her son.

A year or two later, I get into a fight with a friend of mine over stolen property (he stole my guitar). I break things off with this friend because seriously wtf. A few months later he goes to jail for killing his grandmother. The reason he killed her? Money. Again, some teenage kid shoots an innocent women for what amounted to $200-$300 (can't remember the exact amount).

I know these are 2 incidents and there are millions of guns going around in this country. There are plenty of responsible gun owners, who most likely never going to fire one. That doesn't change the fact that the guns are designed for the purpose of killing. They may never be used, but its their intent. Just look at how many shootings are on the news. Sure, for every idiot or psycho out there, there are hundreds of sane gun owners, but people are still dead. They didn't get a say in the matter. Someone decided that they were going to fire a gun and someone or many people died as a result. Hell, a lot of times, the person killed isn't even the intended target because people find its a lot harder to shoot accurately when it actually comes down to it.

Edit: Updated to include a link to one of the two incidents I mentioned. I can't remember my friend from highschool's last name, but its from the same school.
http://articles.philly.com/1999-02-2...delphia-police

My friends brother shot his brother in the head by "accident" heated argument and while his brother was walking away he took out a gun.

Later his wife was about to shoot him with a shotgun because she thought she saw him hit their daughter, what actually happened was he grabbed her shirt.

I have witnessed multiple shots. I saw a man covered in blood, not his own, after he shot to death three people and then another. I saw a man get shot about 100 feet away from me and die. I remember visiting a friend and staying there for a week, and literally everyday there were gun shots, one of them taking place no more than 20 feet from me.

For some reason though people think gun control doesn't matter and that this would all be solved if for instance, I had a gun too so I could have killed the perps. Isn't the problem that there are guns in wrong hands TO BEGIN WITH?

[Porcell]

I have witnessed multiple shots. I saw a man covered in blood, not his own, after he shot to death three people and then another. I saw a man get shot about 100 feet away from me and die. I remember visiting a friend and staying there for a week, and literally everyday there were gun shots, one of them taking place no more than 20 feet from me.

Makes me want to carry a gun so that I can protect myself from these dangerous people.

[Themius]

Makes me want to carry a gun so that I can protect myself from these dangerous people.

Hm right because if I shot the guy there was no way I could have missed and there was no way he could have shot me back. Best thing to do was run which I did. Do you think having a gun would have helped me when I saw a man get shot in front of me? I don't know how many people shoot others from over 100 feet away to defend themselves. This just makes me want to move out of this country, which I will be doing.

[Psilar]

well seeing a video the other day which shoed a guy holding a gun(smg i think)and walking down the road till police stopped him(which was obviously a bait to make police act extreme but unfortunatelly for him the police officer was smarter than him)
I want to ask...why not make gun laws Draconian.Since you take it for protection why not make those laws quite hard on people that brake them and the requirements at a big level...i mean if i had guns in my home i would surelly be pro-gun control because i wouldnt like any weirdo having an armory in his house...IF you guys are honest law abiding citizens hard gun controling laws wont make a diference right?

Also another question,why do you actually need AK-47 or machine guns,i mean i can undersatnd having a handgun or a shotgun but machine guns?Isnt that a bit extreme?

this is not a troll post i really like to see the reasoning behind this culture.So if someone only has to say "derp derp derp gun is bad" or "derp derp derp gun is good"please dont respond.I want answers from seemingly regular joes with guns.

The idea of "The right to bear arms," steam mainly from opposing tyrannical forces. In other words, a government cannot impose unjust laws on armed citizens without dire consequences. Guns, of all types, and the laws in the US, are meant to ensure personal safety, protect against tyranny, and the odd invading army.

The founding fathers new that those with guns have more power than those without. Suspending gun laws will not prevent crazy people from killing or getting guns. As an American, I don't envy places like Singapore. They have very few guns and next to no murders. On the same token they are vulnerable to invasion and tyranny.

Also, you can walk down the road with semi-automatic versions of M4's and various other weapons like an AK 47. Some places like NYC have very strict gun laws and have less leeway.

To summarize, our gun laws are not entirely for the stranger breaking into your house in the middle of the night. It's to ensure the government fears us.

[The Riddler]

Frankly - the anti-gun advocates make it sound like every person is under constant gunfire. I've lived in Texas, Utah, California, Arizona, Virginia, Illinois, Missouri, Massachusetts, and Michigan and I've never seen anyone get shot, never knew anyone who got shot, or even knew anyone who KNEW anyone who got shot. Statistically speaking, gun deaths are not common. You are more likely to die from a bucket, a ladder, or a stairwell than you are to get shot.

And I get really tired of all the "we need stronger gun control laws" argument. We already have tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of gun control laws. The problem is not a matter of needing more gun control laws. If they pass an assault rifle ban, then the next time there is a plain-old rifle shooting the gun-control nazis will just say, "Why does ANYONE need a rifle nowadays!?!?" Then they'll pass a rifle ban and the next shooting will be with a pistol. "Why does ANYONE need a pistol nowadays?!?!" Lather, rinse, repeat.

Freedom is the watchword that should be driving the debate here. More freedom is good. Less freedom is bad. In the issue of gun control, that means that people should be allowed to own what they want but there should be simple, common-sense rules about it. Obviously if you're a criminal or an ex-criminal then you should be restricted. People who own guns should have to be trained, and should have them properly stored and maintained. Other than that? Freedom.

This just makes me want to move out of this country, which I will be doing.

Good luck in whatever hypothetical new country you go to where no one ever dies or gets shot or has anything bad happen. :eyeroll:

[Themius]

Almost 10k people dying to guns is too many...

I guess those 10k people don't matter though. I mean if we had the % of killings england had we would have 223 shootings. If we had the number of shootings that Canada has, quite high in compared to other first world countries. We would have. 1803 killings a year; however, we hover around 10k.

---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 11:37 AM ----------

Frankly - the anti-gun advocates make it sound like every person is under constant gunfire. I've lived in Texas, Utah, California, Arizona, Virginia, Illinois, Missouri, Massachusetts, and Michigan and I've never seen anyone get shot, never knew anyone who got shot, or even knew anyone who KNEW anyone who got shot. Statistically speaking, gun deaths are not common. You are more likely to die from a bucket, a ladder, or a stairwell than you are to get shot.

And I get really tired of all the "we need stronger gun control laws" argument. We already have tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of gun control laws. The problem is not a matter of needing more gun control laws. If they pass an assault rifle ban, then the next time there is a plain-old rifle shooting the gun-control nazis will just say, "Why does ANYONE need a rifle nowadays!?!?" Then they'll pass a rifle ban and the next shooting will be with a pistol. "Why does ANYONE need a pistol nowadays?!?!" Lather, rinse, repeat.

Freedom is the watchword that should be driving the debate here. More freedom is good. Less freedom is bad. In the issue of gun control, that means that people should be allowed to own what they want but there should be simple, common-sense rules about it. Obviously if you're a criminal or an ex-criminal then you should be restricted. People who own guns should have to be trained, and should have them properly stored and maintained. Other than that? Freedom.



Good luck in whatever hypothetical new country you go to where no one ever dies or gets shot or has anything bad happen. :eyeroll:

I'm moving to England were shootings are much rarer and I probably won't witness another person getting killed in front of me. Or know people whose brothers have shot their own family members. Stabbings happen more often though.

Even when you count stabbings+shootings the murder rate is way lower there than here. Did I say no one gets shot or no one dies?

Enjoy America and enjoy the fact the chances of you getting shot are quite high compared to the rest of the first world.

[vaeevictiss]

I thought the second amendment was meant to refer to militias a ''WELL TRAINED MILITIA'' since when did random lay persons = well trained militia? The supreme court later changed how they interpreted it from the original just so guns could remain easy to attain and people could keep using the bullshit excuse "It's my right!"

I asked this question about guns to people in England, France, Japan, Netherlands, and most of them say they feel safe without a gun, would actually feel bothered if their neighbors had guns because they would feel threatened by them and if they had to protect them selfs they would rather use knife versus a gun and shooting people to death. Also most seemed to want to incapacitate thieves not just kill them, as was the popular opinion on the other topic.

---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 09:29 AM ----------



this is such a fucking tired argument. This woman died EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A GUN GIVE EVERYONE A GUN KEEP EVERYONE SAFE!

Never mind the fact that every heated argument could turn into a shooting because people don't think when they're mad, which is how my friends brother killed his brother. Or how his wife almost killed him over what she "thought" she saw.

---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 09:42 AM ----------

You know what else is fucking sickening. Theses people take the last moment of this womans life and then go "if only she had a gun" what a fucked up thing to say. To use her death for political gain. It's fucking pathetic.

you know what else is pathetic? the people that used that same situation for political gain on the other side of the gun control debate. everyone is willing to dance in the blood.

and people need to stop using the terms assault rifle and sniper rifle. i just demonizes them even more. and i shouldn't have to go to a club to shoot. i have my own guns, and my own land, and i prefer to shoot there.

[Aoyi]

Frankly - the anti-gun advocates make it sound like every person is under constant gunfire. I've lived in Texas, Utah, California, Arizona, Virginia, Illinois, Missouri, Massachusetts, and Michigan and I've never seen anyone get shot, never knew anyone who got shot, or even knew anyone who KNEW anyone who got shot. Statistically speaking, gun deaths are not common. You are more likely to die from a bucket, a ladder, or a stairwell than you are to get shot.

And I get really tired of all the "we need stronger gun control laws" argument. We already have tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of gun control laws. The problem is not a matter of needing more gun control laws. If they pass an assault rifle ban, then the next time there is a plain-old rifle shooting the gun-control nazis will just say, "Why does ANYONE need a rifle nowadays!?!?" Then they'll pass a rifle ban and the next shooting will be with a pistol. "Why does ANYONE need a pistol nowadays?!?!" Lather, rinse, repeat.

Freedom is the watchword that should be driving the debate here. More freedom is good. Less freedom is bad. In the issue of gun control, that means that people should be allowed to own what they want but there should be simple, common-sense rules about it. Obviously if you're a criminal or an ex-criminal then you should be restricted. People who own guns should have to be trained, and should have them properly stored and maintained. Other than that? Freedom.



Good luck in whatever hypothetical new country you go to where no one ever dies or gets shot or has anything bad happen. :eyeroll:

I'm glad you've never known anyone that's been shot or knew anyone who's known someone who's been shot. Unfortunately it happens a lot in our country. Aside from those two kids from my high school who murdered their mother/grandmother someone close to me's cousin murdered their father (her uncle). She also use to live in Irvington and could hear shots fired down the street from her. I use to sell life insurance in NJ. There were 2 separate incidents where I was walking up to a house and heard shots fired and people yelling just a few streets down. One women I spoke with in the neighborhood was shot in a drive-by (they missed their target) while she was smoking a cigarette outside her apartment. Luckily the bullet went through her bicep missing the bone and lodged in her rib. Her lungs were not affected, but she'll never forget that day.

So yes, some parts of this country are more dangerous than others, but as a COUNTRY we need less guns. I don't care if some people haven't heard of others they know getting shot. It doesn't change the fact that its still happening or that this isn't some new development. Gun violence has been a problem for a long time. Hell, my good friend just got his conceal license and started collecting. He's got a gun case in his house with the key sitting in the lock (and the ammo next to the weapons). He lives with a 7 year old child. Should I not be worried about that situation? Seriously?

Edit: I forgot to mention that that friend of mine is the brother of the girl who's cousin shot his father. Yes that means this friend with the weapon case also knows that someone in his family murdered another person in his family and started stocking guns in his house.

[The Riddler]

Enjoy America and enjoy the fact the chances of you getting shot are quite high compared to the rest of the first world.

STATEMENT ONE: "I'm moving to England where I am 9.8 times less likely to be shot than the United States!"
STATEMENT TWO: "I'm moving to the United States where less than 0.01% of all deaths are by homicide with a gun!"

Which statement is true? Both of them. If the fear of getting shot is what you consider that important, then you won't escape the risk no matter where you go. Statistically speaking, moving from the US to the UK is fiddling around such a tiny statistical margin that you obtain no measurable benefit from the decision. If you live in a high crime area like Chicago, you'd be better off moving to some place like Stubenville, Ohio which has a very low crime rate.

[vaeevictiss]

I'm glad you've never known anyone that's been shot or knew anyone who's known someone who's been shot. Unfortunately it happens a lot in our country. Aside from those two kids from my high school who murdered their mother/grandmother someone close to me's cousin murdered their father (her uncle). She also use to live in Irvington and could hear shots fired down the street from her. I use to sell life insurance in NJ. There were 2 separate incidents where I was walking up to a house and heard shots fired and people yelling just a few streets down. One women I spoke with in the neighborhood was shot in a drive-by (they missed their target) while she was smoking a cigarette outside her apartment. Luckily the bullet went through her bicep missing the bone and lodged in her rib. Her lungs were not affected, but she'll never forget that day.

So yes, some parts of this country are more dangerous than others, but as a COUNTRY we need less guns. I don't care if some people haven't heard of others they know getting shot. It doesn't change the fact that its still happening or that this isn't some new development. Gun violence has been a problem for a long time. Hell, my good friend just got his conceal license and started collecting. He's got a gun case in his house with the key sitting in the lock (and the ammo next to the weapons). He lives with a 7 year old child. Should I not be worried about that situation? Seriously?

Edit: I forgot to mention that that friend of mine is the brother of the girl who's cousin shot his father. Yes that means this friend with the weapon case also knows that someone in his family murdered another person in his family and started stocking guns in his house.

my fiancees grandmother was shot in the chest with a shotgun point blank. who the fuck shoots a 75 year old woman while robbing a store? my fiance wouldn't touch a gun until that happened and she understood that there are messed up people out there. she also broke her leg in motorcycle accident so she can't really defend herself nor run away. if you see her out of the house, she has a gun on her hip.

tell her she doesn't need it if she is about to be attacked or raped...

As long as there are evil men in the world, there is a need for good men to kill them.