since when did raiders give up so damn easily

[Deleted]

Amazing, i 've red the posts in 2 first pages and none gave an answer to the poor poster about the people that play wow...

Dear OP the wow community these days is spoiled by the company that is catering to their every need such as
1) Insta gratification. In this game it is a crime to lose.
2) Epics in a silver platter. In this game colour white is deleted from the game. Colour green is for leveling, colour blue for leveling and the first heroics of a new expansion and colour purple the colour that all should have in every slot so we can all be happy.
3) Auto tools, name changes, faction changes, realm transfers where the means that blizzard tought their customers that they can be total douches and get away with it just fine. In fact it became part of certain customers daily fun to troll, insult or flame their fellow players.

But to acuse the raiders for this is unfair.
Raiders in this game, is the only (pve) segment of wow population that strive together with other like minded people to achieve smt in the game, for whatever reason they might have. You will likely find that the douches are less represented in the raiding population than any other group of people in wow.
Dont classify running previous expansion content, as raiding.
Raiding should be a team activity, that wipe is expected, in fact an activity that more wipes than boss kills are expected. It doesnt matter the level of skill of the team. Or the content.
Only the outcome (more wipes than kills) and the knowledge that this is raiding and not 1 shot facerolls.
Your group was formed by people that went there to oneshot everything without paying attention to mechanics, and that isn't raiding for sure. It is a team activity, but no it is not raiding.

[Terridon]

Raiders in this game, is the only (pve) segment of wow population that strive together with other like minded people to achieve smt in the game, for whatever reason they might have

Not that i disagree in the overall post. I just wanted to add challenge runs to the pve-content. You still have to cooperate there, and can't really pug it with random people.

[KaPe]

Current "raiders" that give up after one wipe are the same "raiders" who thought green robot was a boss in Sunwell and only went there to kill first pack of elves - over and over again. Except thanks to LFR, they are basically told that this is the correct way - any wipes are unacceptable, difficulty is removed if they complain a lot and 'tactics' are limited to 'switch to skull every once in a while - no pressure, though, it barely hurts'.

[OneSent]

Current "raiders" that give up after one wipe are the same "raiders" who thought green robot was a boss in Sunwell and only went there to kill first pack of elves - over and over again.

Lol, that's a pretty accurate comparison. LFR is just trash farming.

[Gilian]

Since Blizzard started to tune everything for people who 'don't have time' and for 10 year old children.

[gerhard2202]

I see a lot of people in this thread saying you're not a raider unless you meet a certain arbitrary criteria.

If you regularly enter raid instances with a group of players larger than that of a five-man instance and work with them to defeat the content, you are a raider. I don't care how easy it is, it still requires the cumulative effort (as minor as that effort may be) of those players in order to actually defeat the bosses.

You are not only considered a raider "if you have MSV down" or "if you did Dragon Soul LFR" or "if you got 8/8 H DS25" or any other arbitrary requirement that separates raiders from non-raiders.

None of the people who posted here that said "you are not a raider unless you X" are probably conveniently just ahead of the arbitrary requirement they just made up.

This "I am better than these non-raiders" attitude is what causes the very problem OP brought up. A bunch of players see ONE WIPE and say "look at all these players who are worse than me, I'm just going to leave" and ruin the fun for everyone.

Some raiders are better than others. Some raiders raid more than others. Some raiders pug old content, other raiders have a set team that they work with week after week to get stuff down. They're all raiders.

If you want to get into the semantics of what is a 'casual' raider and what is a 'hardcore' raider, please feel free to do so somewhere else, because half of you haven't even stayed on topic to answer OP's question.

[This name sucks]

I'd like to see the progress of EVERYONE who thinks lfr and normal means you're a raider.

Im willing to bet that absolutely everyone who keeps saying that has never killed a final heroic boss when it was current out of 6 pages.

Not a single one of you.

[Deleted]

After playing most of wotlk in a semi hardcore guild and only leaving a raid at the specific time designated as end of the raid, no matter how many wipes at the same boss, I joined this other pve guild in cata and on another server. After 3 wipes at Ultraxion, the raidleader called it saying that he doesn't want to raid all night. What is this, a raid of pussies ?!

[Otimus]

Coming off of older, pre-WoW MMOs, I always thought there was different types of "raiders", like, people pushing current content were "Progression raiders", and people doing other stuff were either just called raiders, casual raiders, or whatever. The only difference is, is WoW kind of eleminated progression when WOTLK came out. So, really, people are just being arbitrary to put down people who do LFR and other stuff they consider beneath them.

[Wildtree]

OP. the truth, and with that the answer, has many facets to your question.

It's however safe to say that the negativity in such runs is usually brought in by self declared "raiders".
People miss out on content for many reasons, and not the few derogatory reasons mentioned on the pages before.
I actually even claim that those who give insulting reasons why others haven't cleared certain content, are exactly the kind of people who destroy rather pleasant pug runs. Because that kind of people also miss out content here and there. Be it job, be it school, be it health issues, and the list goes on.
Even douche bags missing out on content, and then they try to catch up with it. Or, they even cleared it, but they missing a few achievements.
Now they spoil the run with their shitty attitude towards others.
It's easy to cuss and insult, hiding behind a keyboard. You can only comfort yourself with the fact that 99 out of 100 of those idiots wouldn't dare to open their mouth, if they'd stood in front of you, cause you could just make them swallow their own teeth.
Just pity them, because they clearly have other problems in life.. Their actions in the game just channeling some of their frustration over other, more serious problems they have.

[Otimus]

I'd like to see the progress of EVERYONE who thinks lfr and normal means you're a raider.

Im willing to bet that absolutely everyone who keeps saying that has never killed a final heroic boss when it was current out of 6 pages.

Not a single one of you.

.......what in the world is your point?

[Deleted]

I'd like to see the progress of EVERYONE who thinks lfr and normal means you're a raider.

Im willing to bet that absolutely everyone who keeps saying that has never killed a final heroic boss when it was current out of 6 pages.

Not a single one of you.

I do think raiding regularly, whether it's normal or heroic, makes you a raider. Progress doesn't have to have anything to do with it. Big internet-ego doesn't make you a raider, raiding does.

[Deleted]

To me you are a raider if you are in a steady raid team. Doesn't matter how many bosses you have taken down be it 0 or all as long as you are in there with the same coordinated group of people each week, then in my book you get the title raider. Pugs for old content or raidfinder does not get you this title.

[Donald Hellscream]

I'd like to see the progress of EVERYONE who thinks lfr and normal means you're a raider.

Im willing to bet that absolutely everyone who keeps saying that has never killed a final heroic boss when it was current out of 6 pages.

Not a single one of you.

true i never killed madness heroic because i couldn't be bothered with dragon soul towards the end of the expansion ( the guild i am in isn't super hardcore so it took us months to even get to madness heroic ) i don't get your point though.

[The Glitch]

Some of you make me embarrassed to play the same game, much less raid.

None of you (and yes, that includes me) has any right to define what is and is not a 'raider' for anyone beyond yourself. As someone who has at times raided 5+ nights a week until 4-5 AM, I still wouldn't look at someone who raids less, or is doing RF and say 'you're not a raider like me, you're beneath me'. I don't care if you're a casual raider, a hardcore raider like me, or something in between. Its your sub, its your time, 'your' being the key word. Define yourself.

I draw. My friend paints. Painting can be arguably harder, but I am no less an artist than he is. I'm not 'some chick that doodles' because I live in the same city as someone who paints. Furthermore, if he was dumb enough to look me in the face and say 'ur not an artist all u do is draw lol' I would slap the teeth out of his mouth.

Oh and the NBA/basketball comparison made me laugh out loud. There is no comparison whatsoever between playing basketball professionally and playing WoW. WoW is a video game - every single one of us is just another person clicking polygons and pressing hotkeys. No matter how good you think you are at it, how 'l33t' you think you may be - you are still sitting on your ass, making with the clicky-clicky in a pretend world. If that is some kind of a validation of life for you, or if you log off WoW feeling superior to other people because a number in your pretend character's pane is just a little bit higher than the next guy's - you are in need of serious mental evaluation.

And no I don't mean to suggest that there isn't pride to be had in WoW or in things we can accomplish in it. Of course there is. Its just a shame that so many people are incapable - as this topic proves quite succinctly - of having that sense of pride without treating other people like shit. And that's what I never lose sight of. No matter how high my ilevel has been/will get, how many achievement points I have, I will never base how I treat someone else in WoW on what they've done/haven't done.

I got 120 stars in Mario 64, back on Nintendo 64... guess that made me a pretty hardcore gamer back in 96! I guess someone who only got 70 stars is a lowly casual scrub who plays games, but isn't actually a gamer - at least according to the logic of some here. Yep... that is every bit as retarded as it sounds.

This is such an awesome post, exactly how I feel myself, and how I wish most people would be. Sadly no one has even bothered to respond to your post, as like all things on mmo champ forums, reasoned and decent posts gets ignored while the vile and nasty get constantly discussed and pulled out over multiple pages.

As to the OP, it happens, people are impatient, they want instant gratification, and if they don't get it they give up, but you will find that this doesn't just happen in WoW, this happens everywhere in life. Pick up and move on.

[epLe]

a couple of raiders :

[Wildtree]

This is such an awesome post, exactly how I feel myself, and how I wish most people would be. Sadly no one has even bothered to respond to your post, as like all things on mmo champ forums, reasoned and decent posts gets ignored while the vile and nasty get constantly discussed and pulled out over multiple pages.

As to the OP, it happens, people are impatient, they want instant gratification, and if they don't get it they give up, but you will find that this doesn't just happen in WoW, this happens everywhere in life. Pick up and move on.

People don't respond to such posts because they either agree (we should actually still confirm our agreement) or they are the ones caught by the post.

As for quitting. You sure have a point. But do not forget the people who would also agree to Mirishka, and simply leave the raid because they don't feel like putting up with douche bags is worth their own time spending.
I'm one of them. if I am in a pug, be it older or new content. I tend to leave as well. I don't need such mental nutcases to ruin my game.
I get another group eventually.

---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 12:16 PM ----------

a couple of raiders :

Damn you.... now I want a candy bar

[The Glitch]

People don't respond to such posts because they either agree (we should actually still confirm our agreement) or they are the ones caught by the post.

As for quitting. You sure have a point. But do not forget the people who would also agree to Mirishka, and simply leave the raid because they don't feel like putting up with douche bags is worth their own time spending.
I'm one of them. if I am in a pug, be it older or new content. I tend to leave as well. I don't need such mental nutcases to ruin my game.
I get another group eventually.

---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 12:16 PM ----------

Damn you.... now I want a candy bar

Oh don't get me wrong, if people are being abusive in raid chat, I would leave too, But I would be leaving because of the rude behaviour not because we wiped a few times, I don't mind wiping, and helping others understand the fight mechanics, I understand that not everyone knows the fight or is able to grasp the tactics straight away, so long as people are polite about it all.

My mention of people leaving because of instant gratification is more based towards those that leave because they joined thinking it would be a cake walk, and when they realised they actually had to focus , decided it wasn't worth their time and just leave without saying a word or being agressive then leaving

[gerhard2202]

I'd like to see the progress of EVERYONE who thinks lfr and normal means you're a raider.

Im willing to bet that absolutely everyone who keeps saying that has never killed a final heroic boss when it was current out of 6 pages.

Not a single one of you.

Hey there! I did heroic Firelands 25 with TM on Zul'jin before they transferred. Due to time constraints, I now run a casual little 10-man raiding guild with friends. We haven't even set foot in Terrace of the Endless Spring yet and I consider every one of the members on my team (which vary greatly in skill level) raiders.

Ego much?

[cyqu]

its raiding, hence you are a raider...

you might want to reconsider how you define raiding then.