Sandy Hook could have been prevented

[Kujako]

As far as I know the US is a democracy

Nope. Representative republic.

[nameuser]

Normal people have like a barrier that prevents them from doing horrible things like this, but since he was autistic and had little contact with others, he loses the ability to see value in other human beings... breaking down that barrier. Forcing people to be threated won't magically fix things, it can just make it worse.

[Vyxn]

As the US had no standing army to speak of it made sense at that time, does it now?

Each state has its own national guard an as a country you have a huge miltary in all branches to protect you from foreign threats. The US can obliterate any nation on earth when it wants to by several means, tactical, nuclear, viral, biologic.

As far as I know the US is a democracy with frequent voting for both houses and the top job, same applies for each indivdual state so vote to make sure you don't have idiots or tyrants in office (the latter being easier then the former).
So my question is what domestic threats, you have armed police, federal agents, world renowned SWAT teams and to date all major domestic threats were handled by these brave (no sarcasm at all, i respect the boys in blue) people. Give us an example of US citizens needing guns to save their nation from domestic aggressors, one that wasn't dealt with by law enforcement local or federal.

The armed forces protect you from foreign enemies, the law from domestic. If that is the case and so far to me its exactly like that why do you need a gun if you are protected already, this is not the 17th century with the wolves at your door, this is the 21st century and the only risk you have is from those that have guns and do not belong to either the armed forces or the law.
Fact is more people in the US die each year due to guns than american soldiers having being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since the very start of Gulf War 2.
I found this also very very scary, in the US in 2000 there were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States this is for one single year in a no war enviroment, compare that to a war like Vietnam were from 1955 to 1975 a total of 58,209 soldiers killed.

most dictators were elected to office a democracy doesn't guarantee you from dictatorship

if Poland had an armed civilian population like America Germany wouldn't have been able to over run it in 2 days if France had an armed civilian population they would have lasted longer then 42 days, Partisans made a huge difference in WW2 we would have had a harder time winning if it wasn't for them but they had to be supplied with the weapons they used from an outside source, are we going to be able to count on a outside source if the time ever comes civilians was needed to help incase of an evasion?

their is many examples in history including recent history that an armed civilian force kept at bay or even defeated a stronger military force
Vietcong and Afghanistan for examples

[ipaq]

if Poland had an armed civilian population like America Germany wouldn't have been able to over run it in 2 days if France had an armed civilian population they would have lasted longer then 42 days, Partisans made a huge difference in WW2 we would have had a harder time winning if it wasn't for them but they had to be supplied with the weapons they used from an outside source, are we going to be able to count on a outside source if the time ever comes civilians was needed to help incase of an evasion?

their is many examples in history including recent history that an armed civilian force kept at bay or even defeated a stronger military force
Vietcong and Afghanistan for examples

But its ok to ignore the fact that having an ocean between both party had no impact of how ~1918 and ~1940 played out.

[Wikiy]

you a parsing words. technically you are right it is not a metal diseses but a mental disorder
but it is a disorder that can be treated through therapy

It can help you out, but you still have it for life. Regardless, Asperger's doesn't make you do anything nearly as crazy as what this guy did. Einstein had it. Newton too.

[Ethes]

if Poland had an armed civilian population like America Germany wouldn't have been able to over run it in 2 days if France had an armed civilian population they would have lasted longer then 42 days, Partisans made a huge difference in WW2 we would have had a harder time winning if it wasn't for them but they had to be supplied with the weapons they used from an outside source, are we going to be able to count on a outside source if the time ever comes civilians was needed to help incase of an evasion?

their is many examples in history including recent history that an armed civilian force kept at bay or even defeated a stronger military force
Vietcong and Afghanistan for examples

If you're a much stronger militairy force, some light firearms among the population won't change a thing. In case you don't know, the reason The Netherlands surrendered wasn't because our army was defeated, it was because they bombed Rotterdam and told the government that if we didn't surrender they'd bomb Amsterdam too. Things like that won't keep the enemy forces out! They'll just execute you if you're planning on shooting them or even succeeded in shooting a few and if you all think that way, you'll end up bombed.

But that aside, here you are with examples of history again. The United States does have a sufficient army which is capable of protecting its lands from enemy invasion and actually, there has been no war on American soil since the 18th century.

So I'm very sorry, but if enemy invasion is your excuse to not give up your guns and you think they'll actually help you in a scenario like that I think you're anything but a realist...

[Vyxn]

It can help you out, but you still have it for life. Regardless, doesn't make you do anything nearly as crazy as what this guy did. Einstein had it. Newton too.

we don't know how intensive of a mental evaluation he had if he one at all Asperger's could have just been symptom of a worse mental illness

[Deleted]

Uh yes it is, it being a part of the Autism spectrum.

Uh, no it is not. It is a learning disability, an entirely separate category to mental illness. The autistic spectrum is a theoretical construct for other similar learning disabilities. Mental illness comes nowhere near it.

[Vyxn]

If you're a much stronger militairy force, some light firearms among the population won't change a thing. In case you don't know, the reason The Netherlands surrendered wasn't because our army was defeated, it was because they bombed Rotterdam and told the government that if we didn't surrender they'd bomb Amsterdam too. Things like that won't keep the enemy forces out! They'll just execute you if you're planning on shooting them or even succeeded in shooting a few and if you all think that way, you'll end up bombed.

But that aside, here you are with examples of history again. The United States does have a sufficient army which is capable of protecting its lands from enemy invasion and actually, there has been no war on American soil since the 18th century.

So I'm very sorry, but if enemy invasion is your excuse to not give up your guns and you think they'll actually help you in a scenario like that I think you're anything but a realist...

i guess the Vietcong or Afghanistan didn't get your memo

also did you ever think that maybe we where never invaded because of our armed civilian population

[Ethes]

i guess the Vietcong or Afghanistan didn't get your memo

also did you ever think that maybe we where never invaded because of our armed civilian population

I guess both Vietnam and Afghanistan got bombed into pieces. But to be fair, due to the fact that their infrastructure wasn't as developed as those of first world countries, there was less harm to the country its stability.

And no I don't think so as I think America has (well, debatebly there is China now) and has had the most powerful militairy force in the world. You think the USSR didn't go to war with you because some people in the south were keen on their guns? Don't make me laugh!

[Vyxn]

Uh, no it is not. It is a learning disability, an entirely separate category to mental illness. The autistic spectrum is a theoretical construct for other similar learning disabilities. Mental illness comes nowhere near it.

not sure but are you denying that Asperger's could have just been one of the symptoms over a worse condition

there is reports of a baby sitter coming forward with the claim the Adams mother told her to never turn her back on him. now that doesn't sound like something you would tell someone to not do with a child with nothing but Asperger's

[Deleted]

not sure but are you denying that Asperger's could have just been one of the symptoms over a worse condition

there is reports of a baby sitter coming forward with the claim the Adams mother told her to never turn her back on him. now that doesn't sound like something you would tell someone to not do with a child with nothing but Asperger's

I'm not denying anything, I'm simply demystifying a stereotype that people with autism are considered mentally ill BECAUSE of their autism. Yes, they do co-exist for any one given individual, but no they are not in anyway interchangeable.

[Dazzy]

It can help you out, but you still have it for life. Regardless, Asperger's doesn't make you do anything nearly as crazy as what this guy did. Einstein had it. Newton too.

For those that don't know what aspergers is, think of Dr. House from the show House. That character fits the definition of aspergers to a tee.

Lanza was very intelligent, he started taking college classes at age 16, he was a social outcast (by definition of aspergers). There are no studies linking aspergers to sociopathic or psychopathic behavior.

Also, the gun used was an AR-15, with 30 round magazines. He had 2 handguns with him but the handgun was only used to off himself.

There were warning signs, as small as they were. Most people wouldn't have recognized them.

As for the 'therapists must report if they think someone could do something dangerous', 100% NOT TRUE, I continue to find it odd that people keep talking out of their asses without having a clue on a subject.
Unless you directly come out and say "I'm going on a killing spree" AND give details a therapist CANNOT tell anyone, period.

[Rukh]

I just wonder how many mass killings in the US have to happen before it stops being a "knee jerk reaction"? Is there a specific height we need to pile the dead children?

[Puck]

I didn't say track them. My apologies. When I said, "get to them early," I meant, "make them disappear."

Whoa, okay. You seem to do the Texas stereotype justice. How about we help them instead?

[skrump]

From an outside perspective it would seem he suffered from little more than social anxiety combined with the label of weirdo due to his social awkwardness.

I mean I can easily put myself in his shoes if that is the case because I went through the same situation, I just wasn't dumb enough to act out in such a manner.
Then again even if I wanted to die I wouldn't want to take innocent people with me so I assume he was indeed deranged but hid it very well.

[Powerogue]

The thing is, who do we label as mentally ill and requiring forced treatment? Everyone has some form of mental illness these days. From what I've heard, the kid just had autism and was introverted. Neither of which are inherently dangerous.

[Risale]

@ Vyxn

I have seen your reply but not an answer to my question, what domestic tyranny have armed civilians prevented since US independance that wasn't halted by law enforcement?

And yes Poland and France were taken over very fast same as with the Netherlands and most of Europe for that matter however Germany had changed how wars were being fought it is called Blitzkrieg, no country in Europe was prepared for that. Also the superior arms of the Germans added to that. As mentioned by Ethes the Dutch were not even given a chance after Rotterdam was bombed to hell (and I mean hell as the center of town was a firestorm) they had to surrender or Amsterdam would be next. Look it up the pictures of Rotterdam look somewhat the same as Hiroshima or Nagasaki http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...jpg?uselang=nl

You mentioned the Vietnamese and Agfhans again you fail to see the simple fact that these 2 peoples were game changers to war, the VC managed to bring the entire US military to a halt, the same with the Afghans the forced the Russians to commit massive amounts of equipment and personel to a conflict which both these superpowers couldn't and didn't win. However both these peoples were ready willing and able to go far beyond what there enemies were willing to do in general as in living under ground or in caves, murdering their own populace on a whisper of disobediance.

What you also fail to see is that the US is in a position like few other countries you have NO enemies at the gate to the east you have the Atlantic, to the west the Pacific, to the north Canada and the south Mexico.
So that leaves what either the chinese going to war with the US or a lone man with a suitcase nuke neither of which will be stopped by a regular joe with a gun, the former by the military and the latter (if you are very lucky) by your law enforcement (including all spy agencies in that catagory, you know the alphabet soup people).

Enemy invasion of the US currently is almost not possible with the exception of the chinese or if the entire South American continent moves on you the logistics make it nigh on impossible unless you can dominate the air & sea between, enemy infiltration sadly is possible and almost impossible to guard against.
And lets be honest if China would invade forget about the Geneva convention or any form of humane treatment they would move in and be there till hell freezes over the only thing you could do to stop that is by going nuclear.

[Vyxn]

From an outside perspective it would seem he suffered from little more than social anxiety combined with the label of weirdo due to his social awkwardness.

I mean I can easily put myself in his shoes if that is the case because I went through the same situation, I just wasn't dumb enough to act out in such a manner.
Then again even if I wanted to die I wouldn't want to take innocent people with me so I assume he was indeed deranged but hid it very well.

Just read a recent report that Adams mother confided to a neighbor that Adam mental problems recently started to get worse he started burning himself with a lighter
its not that large of a step from hurting your self to wanting to hurt others.
I'm starting to think the mother was in denial of her sons condition. she had a bomb, she she didn't want to recognize it as a bomb, she hid that bomb from others, she made no attempt to defuse the bomb, and hoped it wouldn't go off

i want to know what that women was thinking why did she have those weapons that could be accessed by her son if she knew he was capable of hurting himself did she not think he would take the next step and hurt others

[Auloria]

i want to know what that women was thinking why did she have those weapons that could be accessed by her son if she knew he was capable of hurting himself did she not think he would take the next step and hurt others

Well, hurting yourself is a sign of serious emotional distress, but I would not say it's true that violence is the logical next step. Very different mechanisms are often at work there.

In any case, it's still hard to speculate at this point what warning signs were there and why this happened. I wouldn't expect that the mother wasn't taking steps to defuse the situation, but it clearly escalated past her control. The breaking point may well have been her trying to address the problem.